John Moses Browning

If one has a middle name as mighty as "Moses", I'm guessing they wouldn't want it to lie there in dormant obscurity between two ordinary names like "John" and "Browning."

What I can't understand is why Andrew Lloyd Webber has a high enough opinion of his middle name to use it. "Lloyd"? No offense to anyone here named Lloyd, but it's like one step above "Elmer." No offense to anyone named Elmer. On the other hand, Frank Lloyd Wright used it, too, so I guess I'm missing something.

The worst was Ralph "Waldo" Emerson. "Where's Waldo?" Now, I'm REALLY hoping I haven't offended someone here named Waldo.

As long as the Other Jim brought it up, there is middle name custom that I find annoying.
The nickname as middle name, i.e. Paul "Bear" Bryant, John "Pondoro" Taylor.

JeeperCreeper said:

Since we are talking trash, I'd just like to say that everyone calls him John Moses Browning to compensate for that fact that he was an inferior weapons "drawer" to both:

1. Eugene "The-Big-Gene" Stoner
2. Jean "Is-Actually-Canadian" Garand

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This is completely laughable. Garand only "invented" one firearm, drawing from the knowledge of previous mistakes and successes of the Mondragon, the 1922 Bang, the General Liu rifle, which used a gas trap system,and the Fusil RSC 1917. All of these were in service before Garand was skating circles in his living room. And,of course, he also had Browning's designs to study.

Gene Stoner? He wasn't as much an inventor as he was an innovator. He successfully incorporated space age materials into rifle construction. He did one hell of a fine job, as did Garand, but to compare either one to Browning's accomplishments is to compare the light of a flashlight to that of the sun.

But you were being factious......right?

rbernie said:

But that's what all inventors do - they extend the existing art in ways that make the technology consumable and/or producable in product form.

Scientists create the initial art; inventors (aka engineers) make it practical.

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I very much disagree. For eons early humans have used edged tools in various forms. At some point somebody decided to use early metals to forge a tool. So who invented the knife? The flintknapper or the blacksmith?

Jim NE said:

No offense to anyone here named Lloyd, but it's like one step above "Elmer."

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Elmer Keith would take exception to that.

SHOOT1SAM said:

So...sometimes she addresses you as .308 NORMA Magnum??

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LOL!

How have we come this far in this thread without singing the praises of Jonathan Livingston Seagull?

So, speaking of JMB:

A buddy of mine is an FFL SOT and through a mutual acquaintance got introduced to the (IIRC) great-grandson of JMB. His lineage is through one of JMB's daughters, so he doesn't have the Browning last name. The descendant had never really been into guns but in some trips he had visited the FN museum and was interested in his family heritage. He was stopping in SoFla for a few days and the mutual acquaintance thought he and my buddy should meet.The idea was, my buddy knows a LOT about guns and could probably show you some of your antecedent's designs. They met, spoke a bit, saw some of the guns, and he promised he would schedule another trip to get some range time in.

My buddy told me about the meeting and he included me in the subsequent range trip. I got to meet the gentleman and his wife. He is a retired attorney, and all around a pretty decent fellow. He explained that the family business went to the sons and not the daughters back in the day. And of course, it stayed in the family until the 80s when they sold it off. He mentioned that except for some shotgun, he had never really been into shooting or guns. It was one thing seeing pictures or some of the pieces on a wall in a museum, it was another to handle them, and get to actually shoot them. We got to fire several of the Browning designed firearms including the M1919. I'll have to dig up a picture from that day. That was one of the more memorable range days for me.

The Browning museum in Ogden, Utah (about 90 miles south of here) is well worth a visit if any of y'all get up this way.

Wisco said:

...I also call almost everyone by their first or last name. If they insist on formality or titles, I usually just avoid them in the future.

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Ahhh, a kindred spirit! However, if I can’t avoid them, I do my best to innocently refer to the, by the wrong title...

Sam

SHOOT1SAM said:

Ahhh, a kindred spirit! However, if I can’t avoid them, I do my best to innocently refer to the, by the wrong title...

Sam

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Innocently...yes...

I was always a big fan of saying a really quick “yeah, sure” instead of “yes, sir” to some Army officers I didn’t care for. It seemed to get progressively less funny the higher up the chain it went...

SHOOT1SAM said:

Ahhh, a kindred spirit! However, if I can’t avoid them, I do my best to innocently refer to the, by the wrong title...

Sam

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I'm dealing with one at work on a power trip since he got a promotion into a job nobody else wanted. I haven't made a push to get somebody fired for being a jerk to their employees in a long time...this one is about to catch hell if he doesn't get off of his kick of wanting people to call him Manager XXXX. I call him Manopause for a few reasons. To his face...and he isn't gonna say a word about it because even though we are technically equals, he knows how far my reach goes.

tark said:

This is completely laughable. Garand only "invented" one firearm, drawing from the knowledge of previous mistakes and successes of the Mondragon, the 1922 Bang, the General Liu rifle, which used a gas trap system,and the Fusil RSC 1917. All of these were in service before Garand was skating circles in his living room. And,of course, he also had Browning's designs to study.

Gene Stoner? He wasn't as much an inventor as he was an innovator. He successfully incorporated space age materials into rifle construction. He did one hell of a fine job, as did Garand, but to compare either one to Browning's accomplishments is to compare the light of a flashlight to that of the sun.

But you were being factious......right?

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Nope, 100% serious. If 1911's were so great, why are there so many threads on how to make them unjam and make them reliable?

Yes, I shoot spinny-barrel Barettas for reliability.

JeeperCreeper said:

Nope, 100% serious. If 1911's were so great, why are there so many threads on how to make them unjam and make them reliable?

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I was 45B20 in the Army in 1970. Small Arms Repair. In Germany. Don't remember ever doing much work on the 1911s but I do remember sending pistols that had fired thousands of rounds away to be re-parkerized. And put back into service to fire thousands more rounds. I worked for Les Baer for 21 years and The girls on the shooting team used to put tens of thousands of rounds through their guns without any need for repairs.

You are, I assume, aware that Browning invented more than one firearm, unlike Stoner and Garand, and that the vast majority of them were outstanding successes.

I don't know where you find all these threads to make 1911s "unjam and make them reliable" but they aren't on this forum.

I have shot a lot of "spinny barrel Barettas".

I wouldn't give you a dried up cat turd for one.....

tark said:

All of these were in service before Garand was skating circles in his living room.

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Garand's primer actuated rifle was manufactured in 1919.

Being a fan of "The Three Stooges"................ I'd call him MOE!

tark said:

I was 45B20 in the Army in 1970. Small Arms Repair. In Germany. Don't remember ever doing much work on the 1911s but I do remember sending pistols that had fired thousands of rounds away to be re-parkerized. And put back into service to fire thousands more rounds. I worked for Les Baer for 21 years and The girls on the shooting team used to put tens of thousands of rounds through their guns without any need for repairs.

I don't know where you find all these threads to make 1911s "unjam and make them reliable" but they aren't on this forum.

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Very common on the dedicated 1911 boards. Lots of reports of "good customer service" which I translate as a willingness to sell a defective product plus the ability to make you think they were doing you a favor by fixing it.
The difference is, we don't have mil-spec and inspectors and we aren't happy with seven rounds of hardball. What we do have is "features" and accountants.

But say, did the company team shoot standard models off the shelf? I have seen a number of company shooters and their guns were not something I could readily buy. Heck, some of them I didn't even recognize.

Well there is a John Browning Museum. Do any of the other gun designers have their own museum, or do they just have a small area in a museum.
Browning was ahead of his time. There have been great designs, but John Browning's have stood the test of time and many are still in production.

I only mention it because sometimes there's a man.. I won't say a hero, 'cause what's a hero? But sometimes , theres a man...

Now, now, it's "John M. Browning Firearms Museum"...

TheVision said:

Garand's primer actuated rifle was manufactured in 1919.

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And was not adopted, never put into production beyond the prototype stage and never went into service. In my original post I did say "In service' They have one on the wall in the Arsenal museum at the Rock Island Arsenal, should you care to see one in the flesh.

Jim Watson said:

But say, did the company team shoot standard models off the shelf?

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They most assuredly did, and you could (and still can) buy one just like them. To be fair, It should be mentioned that they were expensive and built in a custom shop, but "expensive" in this case meant roughly twice the cost of a standard Colt production 1911.

GunnyUSMC said:

Well there is a John Browning Museum.

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The Rock Island Arsenal Museum was called the "John Browning Museum " years ago. Don't know if that was the one you were referring to. They had a display near the front entrance that had one example of every gun Browning invented. It was impressive to say the least. They re-named the place years ago and now it it is the "Arsenal Museum"

Actually, here IS the primer activated gun, above the Pederson carbine, center row. Sorry the picture quality is bad. The rifle shown is Garand's second prototype.

BTW, #6797 is a Model Shop gun serial # 2

It is to differentiate him from the guy whose body is moldering in the grave...if you know what I mean.

But seriously that name was a significant emotional trigger for many years after the Civil War.