Are you using the riser block atop the slider block?
Unboxing Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro - User Review / Discussion < No Bashing >
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someguy2800
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Is the base of the second case falling down next to the neck of the first?
Bolson
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Yep, kinda moves it over a bit.
someguy2800
Member
making the opening of the case feeder smaller might help in that case. You need to get the rim of the second to sit on top of the neck of the first so one or the other has to move less with the brass drops down.
Bolson
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30-06 case is the right size to fit snug in the hole, so I cut one down to fit and it seems to have shrunk the diameter down enough to help. I've only ran a couple tube fulls and no double feeds. I was getting 1 every 3 to 5 times, sometimes a triple feed as it pushed one out on the floor. Fingers crossed as confidence grows. Might be cool if I could actually make some ammo
I've still been having trouble with the bullet seating depth varying sometimes more than 0.010". The theory I mentioned earlier is that that shell plate holder is flexing because the bullet seating station is not supported by the ram which is under station 1 for the resizing die.
I was doing some load development today and wanted precision in the seating depth. So I moved the seating die over to station 1. With it there directly above the ram, I was getting a variance of no more than one or two thou. Usually it was dead on.
I use lock ring eliminators in all the stations, so it's not too hard to swap dies around almost like a pseudo-turret. Of course it wouldn't be practical to use it this way all the time. It seems as though when I go into a higher level of production, I may not get a high level of precision with seating depth. I also got a Gemini 20 scale today, which is better than the one I was using. I've noticed the Auto Drum powder measure isn't that consistent either. It's not clear yet how much consistency I'll actually need. I was able to get 5-shot group SD's as low as 9 more than once with a target load I developed and loaded on the press, but I've been working on a hollowpoint load and laddering around, the best SD I've been able to get is 24 no matter how precise I manually make the powder mass and bullet depth. It seems the consistency of the load has more to do with the specs and less to do with the reloading equipment's precision.
I was doing some load development today and wanted precision in the seating depth. So I moved the seating die over to station 1. With it there directly above the ram, I was getting a variance of no more than one or two thou. Usually it was dead on.
I use lock ring eliminators in all the stations, so it's not too hard to swap dies around almost like a pseudo-turret. Of course it wouldn't be practical to use it this way all the time. It seems as though when I go into a higher level of production, I may not get a high level of precision with seating depth. I also got a Gemini 20 scale today, which is better than the one I was using. I've noticed the Auto Drum powder measure isn't that consistent either. It's not clear yet how much consistency I'll actually need. I was able to get 5-shot group SD's as low as 9 more than once with a target load I developed and loaded on the press, but I've been working on a hollowpoint load and laddering around, the best SD I've been able to get is 24 no matter how precise I manually make the powder mass and bullet depth. It seems the consistency of the load has more to do with the specs and less to do with the reloading equipment's precision.
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ray15
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I have no problem creating 9mm or 40S&W loads at any power level with SD less than 10, some at 5 or less. I would agree it's more about the quality of the bullets and the suitability of the powder and amount used. But you do have to have a minimum level of expertise in choosing and setting up dies for your application, a mechanically sound press and installation, powder measure precision, and consistent operation of such. I'm betting the ABLP is stiff enough for low SD handgun ammo, and the Auto Drum has proven capable.
Try some quality jacketed bullets like Hornady XTP or in-house RMR if you have any doubts about he consistency of your projectiles. I find it helps to load my ammunition near to or at max pressures. I believe in varying the powder's burn rate to match my bullet weight and velocity goals for the load. Obviously not all powders have to reach 35,000psi to work well, but the Hodgdon and Alliant powders I've tried gain consistency with pressure.
I also find consistency in less-modern cartridges like 38 special to more elusive. The excess case capacity poses much more of a challenge for the primer and powder, and the lower pressure level caters to fewer powders. Tough to achieve a SD of 10 there without going to a wadcutter to reduce case capacity.
How low of a SD does one need? I see SD as an important characteristic, but it's only a means to an end, not an end in itself. The most accurate load of a ladder may not have the lowest SD - but nonetheless all my accurate loads have good SD and low velocity spread. I see it as confirmation of how happy my powder is in the application and how precise the projectiles are. But as rare as a load with an SD of 3 that shoots patterns is, it is also useless.
Livin_Cincy
Member
Try putting the other three dies into the press without a change in depth and see if Station 1 is still consistent. Be sure to put brass in the other locations.
It could be that as you set up your dies going from station 1 thru 4 that the height was not held. If you think about setting one die to height then adding another die you now apply force in two places. If you set up your dies one at a time you apply that force in (4) different places. You need to set up your dies with brass in each station going into their dies. Which means you have to go back and forth a few times.
As you noted, the Breech Lock system lets you put them in different stations easily. So you can check them for consistency. The manual index lets this work. So you may be making a few dummy rounds to verify everything.
While Pistol brass will rarely grow to an oversized length it is not all made the same exact length. This could also be causing problems.
kmw1954
Member
Hello everyone. New to the forum but not to gun forums.
Just finished reading this whole topic and have been enlightened. Hope to learn more and contribute to the discussion.
I have been following this press on a couple other forums and it has my interest. The reason being for looking at this press was brought on by a new pistol that I was trying to reload for. As at this time I was loading on either a Pro1000 or and old Lee 3 hole turret. Well with the problems I was having I finally had to go to a FCD which meant I need another hole or do this in 2 steps.
While following the updates in the new Lee presses I was believing this press was going to be the replacement for the Pro1000 with a 4th hole such as the new Value press has. Until I seen a new Pro1000 and it still had just 3 holes.
Anyhow, the addition of the 4th hole is what struck my interest and the thought that it used the Safety Prime also added interest as I thought it would be more reliable than the Pro1000 even though it would be slower. My thought is to have this as a dedicated press for the 45acp that needs the FCD to load for my finicky Witness. As I already am a Lee user I have most of what I need to set this up with just the press and a shell plate. Only with the wife going in for a knee replacement this may have to wait for my Xmas list.
Just finished reading this whole topic and have been enlightened. Hope to learn more and contribute to the discussion.
I have been following this press on a couple other forums and it has my interest. The reason being for looking at this press was brought on by a new pistol that I was trying to reload for. As at this time I was loading on either a Pro1000 or and old Lee 3 hole turret. Well with the problems I was having I finally had to go to a FCD which meant I need another hole or do this in 2 steps.
While following the updates in the new Lee presses I was believing this press was going to be the replacement for the Pro1000 with a 4th hole such as the new Value press has. Until I seen a new Pro1000 and it still had just 3 holes.
Anyhow, the addition of the 4th hole is what struck my interest and the thought that it used the Safety Prime also added interest as I thought it would be more reliable than the Pro1000 even though it would be slower. My thought is to have this as a dedicated press for the 45acp that needs the FCD to load for my finicky Witness. As I already am a Lee user I have most of what I need to set this up with just the press and a shell plate. Only with the wife going in for a knee replacement this may have to wait for my Xmas list.
This is an update on my review of the ABLP. I have since added the case feeder and the bullet feeder. I am priming by hand priming tool prior to loading the case feeder.
The case feeder was easy to set up and works dependably with .38 special cases using the small hole and riser block. Occasionally, the next case in line will drop and bounce forward a bit and the mouth of the case jam under the edge of the press. I just pull it back with a finger.
The bullet feeder was substantially harder to set up. I was very disappointed to have to lose the lock-ring eliminators on die stations 3 and 4. I experienced about 15 to 25 minutes of frustration adjusting the feeder, but was then able to load about 150 cartridges without further trouble. I haven't loaded larger volumes yet.
With everything set up, prepared and stocked, I was loading at a rate of 50 cartridges in 6 minutes. That's a rate of 500 an hour, not counting the need to stop and reload the bullet and case feeders, and the preparation work to decap, clean, and prime the brass.
I mentioned earlier the inconsistency I get with the OAL. I found with the bullet seating die in station 1, the OAL was +/- 0.001" and with it in station 3, +/- 0.006". I believe this is due to flex in the shell plate and carrier because the ram is only under station 1. When I noticed this, I was getting standard deviations greater than 30. But even when I took the time to fix the OAL within a thou, the SD's didn't improve until I switched powders. Then I started getting SD's between 5 and 15 for 5 shot groups straight off the press. Loading the small volumes I was when developing a load, usually 5 cartridges at a time, the OAL would vary with different stations being filled or not. Loading a higher volume and keeping all the stations filled, the OAL's were more consistent. Regardless, my experience is that low SD's are produced by the other load characteristics more than high precision in OAL.
The ABLP continues to meet my production needs, but in many ways it is a press that is "good enough" for the purpose rather than being exceptionally pleasing. It may still be outstanding with regard to the productivity it delivers compared to anything less than several times the expense.
If I have any regrets, I sometimes regret that I didn't keep the single-stage press. I enjoyed reloading that way more. If I increase my volume to about 1000 rounds a month without significant problems, then I'll be assured the ABLP was the right choice. I've been reloading for 2 months, and have loaded 1400.
The case feeder was easy to set up and works dependably with .38 special cases using the small hole and riser block. Occasionally, the next case in line will drop and bounce forward a bit and the mouth of the case jam under the edge of the press. I just pull it back with a finger.
The bullet feeder was substantially harder to set up. I was very disappointed to have to lose the lock-ring eliminators on die stations 3 and 4. I experienced about 15 to 25 minutes of frustration adjusting the feeder, but was then able to load about 150 cartridges without further trouble. I haven't loaded larger volumes yet.
With everything set up, prepared and stocked, I was loading at a rate of 50 cartridges in 6 minutes. That's a rate of 500 an hour, not counting the need to stop and reload the bullet and case feeders, and the preparation work to decap, clean, and prime the brass.
I mentioned earlier the inconsistency I get with the OAL. I found with the bullet seating die in station 1, the OAL was +/- 0.001" and with it in station 3, +/- 0.006". I believe this is due to flex in the shell plate and carrier because the ram is only under station 1. When I noticed this, I was getting standard deviations greater than 30. But even when I took the time to fix the OAL within a thou, the SD's didn't improve until I switched powders. Then I started getting SD's between 5 and 15 for 5 shot groups straight off the press. Loading the small volumes I was when developing a load, usually 5 cartridges at a time, the OAL would vary with different stations being filled or not. Loading a higher volume and keeping all the stations filled, the OAL's were more consistent. Regardless, my experience is that low SD's are produced by the other load characteristics more than high precision in OAL.
The ABLP continues to meet my production needs, but in many ways it is a press that is "good enough" for the purpose rather than being exceptionally pleasing. It may still be outstanding with regard to the productivity it delivers compared to anything less than several times the expense.
If I have any regrets, I sometimes regret that I didn't keep the single-stage press. I enjoyed reloading that way more. If I increase my volume to about 1000 rounds a month without significant problems, then I'll be assured the ABLP was the right choice. I've been reloading for 2 months, and have loaded 1400.
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Why would you not have kept your single stage press?
RealGun
Member
InLine Fabrications has a high mount for this new press and is developing (for me) a bin hanger plate not yet in the offerings online. Like other presses, it is barely usable without these accessories.
As another note, it seems a shame for these threads about the press to get congested with troubleshooting of accessories presenting problems that are not unique to the Pro4000 and are not included with it. Case feeders, bullet feeders, powder measures, and even primer feeders are not part of the press, nor are the problems always unique to employing them on it. To me, the main issue, in addition to scarcity of after market accessories, is dropping primers, and I understand that I may not have the latest generation of the triangle-shaped dispenser. We do need a better understanding from Lee, rather than knowledge from the field, about what accessories do or do not work on the Pro4000.
As another note, it seems a shame for these threads about the press to get congested with troubleshooting of accessories presenting problems that are not unique to the Pro4000 and are not included with it. Case feeders, bullet feeders, powder measures, and even primer feeders are not part of the press, nor are the problems always unique to employing them on it. To me, the main issue, in addition to scarcity of after market accessories, is dropping primers, and I understand that I may not have the latest generation of the triangle-shaped dispenser. We do need a better understanding from Lee, rather than knowledge from the field, about what accessories do or do not work on the Pro4000.
I've loaded over 2000 rounds now, and the ABLP itself has been acceptable. The biggest drawback is the flimsiness of the construction so that bullet seating depth varies by as much as 0.015" I haven't seen any other press that is constructed of such light material.
Accessories are necessary to make the press work for its intended purpose. Without them, we would all be better off with a turret or single stage.
I've had minor issues with the case feeder where I just needed to adjust it, and it continues to work fine.
I'm disappointed with the bullet feeder. The fact it doesn't work with the lock-ring eliminators is bad enough, but the mount plate under the die makes it hard to keep half the dies adjusted properly and secure. The wire actuator rods have been problematic, and while it continues to work, I've spent more time fussing with it than it has saved me. I might just ditch it once and for all.
I prime off the press by hand because I also deprime and clean off the press. So I have no evaluation of Lee priming accessories.
I use it on a heavily-weighted Lee tripod stand. I have three bin-hangars and two three-die mount plates on it. It is lower than ideal, and the stand is somewhat too flexible, but I've never seen someone using a bench setup that was better. I can conceive of one, but I haven't actually seen it. If I do a Youtube search, I see guys like Hickok45 and Military Arms Channel using Dillon presses that wobble quite a bit more than my press on the Lee stand. Their benches and mounts are flexing. I don't think Inline Fabrication mounts are stiff enough to resist flexing either.
Accessories are necessary to make the press work for its intended purpose. Without them, we would all be better off with a turret or single stage.
I've had minor issues with the case feeder where I just needed to adjust it, and it continues to work fine.
I'm disappointed with the bullet feeder. The fact it doesn't work with the lock-ring eliminators is bad enough, but the mount plate under the die makes it hard to keep half the dies adjusted properly and secure. The wire actuator rods have been problematic, and while it continues to work, I've spent more time fussing with it than it has saved me. I might just ditch it once and for all.
I prime off the press by hand because I also deprime and clean off the press. So I have no evaluation of Lee priming accessories.
I use it on a heavily-weighted Lee tripod stand. I have three bin-hangars and two three-die mount plates on it. It is lower than ideal, and the stand is somewhat too flexible, but I've never seen someone using a bench setup that was better. I can conceive of one, but I haven't actually seen it. If I do a Youtube search, I see guys like Hickok45 and Military Arms Channel using Dillon presses that wobble quite a bit more than my press on the Lee stand. Their benches and mounts are flexing. I don't think Inline Fabrication mounts are stiff enough to resist flexing either.
You would be mistaken
someguy2800
Member
I also have concluded that I don't want to use the bullet feeder anymore. It works okay but it does drop bullets on the table as the bench flexes, and it doesn't save any time considering you have to fill the feeder tube. Its also frustrating that there is no way to shut it off if no case is present, so if you don't feed a case though with each pull of the press it will drop that bullet on the floor.
I continue to be happy with the press and case feeder. I find it efficient and comfortable to use and I can easily make 500 rounds of pistol ammo in a little over an hour and I'm not sore when I'm done. I have had excellent results from the case feeder. I have mostly worked out the primer feed system but it will always drop a primer from time to time. I reload in a workshop, not my living room, so primers on the floor are not a big deal to me.
I continue to be happy with the press and case feeder. I find it efficient and comfortable to use and I can easily make 500 rounds of pistol ammo in a little over an hour and I'm not sore when I'm done. I have had excellent results from the case feeder. I have mostly worked out the primer feed system but it will always drop a primer from time to time. I reload in a workshop, not my living room, so primers on the floor are not a big deal to me.
Doc Morton
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Thank you, gentlemen. I have read through all six pages on this subject and I have concluded that my interests will be best served by migrating from an RCBS Reloader Special to an RCBS Rock Chucker.
Please don't take this as a criticism of progressive presses; merely an acknowledgement that the various issues raised make it clear that they are not for me. I appreciate you taking the time to post these entries so that I could get a clear and unbiased idea of what I would be getting into with a progressive.
Please don't take this as a criticism of progressive presses; merely an acknowledgement that the various issues raised make it clear that they are not for me. I appreciate you taking the time to post these entries so that I could get a clear and unbiased idea of what I would be getting into with a progressive.
RealGun
Member
Inline Fab has been developing a right side bin hanger plate for this press to catch finished rounds, when the press is on their Ultramount, above bench height.
kmw1954
Member
Still debating whether I want to go this way with the Breech Lock Pro or with the new upgraded model 4 hole Value Press. I assume the Breech Lock would be 4X faster then the Turret.
Thanks for all the great info. This thread has been very useful. I just bought one to replace a lee classic turret.
I'm having an issue with the case feeder and collator. When the case tube is about half full or greater, it seems like the upper lip of the the dropped case is catching on the bottom of the next case to be dropped and it "shoots it out of the case ejector, flying off of the press. On some occasions the case just falls over. I have triple check the penny height gap. The case ejector seems smooth with no burs and dents.
Any insight to the cause and resolution to this issue? Thanks.
BTW, I went to lee's website and ordered the "grey" priming arms. They didn't charge anything except shipping and I got them within a few days. However, when I opened them up, they were white and not dark grey as on their website. FWIW.
I'm having an issue with the case feeder and collator. When the case tube is about half full or greater, it seems like the upper lip of the the dropped case is catching on the bottom of the next case to be dropped and it "shoots it out of the case ejector, flying off of the press. On some occasions the case just falls over. I have triple check the penny height gap. The case ejector seems smooth with no burs and dents.
Any insight to the cause and resolution to this issue? Thanks.
BTW, I went to lee's website and ordered the "grey" priming arms. They didn't charge anything except shipping and I got them within a few days. However, when I opened them up, they were white and not dark grey as on their website. FWIW.
RealGun
Member
Similar issue here with case feed and found that the gap between the slider and feed tube was too tight, causing some cases to flip out of the press and across the room under return spring tension. I measure all my brass for close tolerance and sort, trim, or discard accordingly, but you will need to use a case for measurement that represents your max case length. The gap I use is still very close in order to get a good shearing off of the case from the stack.
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Toprudder
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No, you are not! LOLsorry for what I typed right there
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