Perceived recoil vs reality.

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I enjoyed the heck out of shooting a Traditions .50 cal. pistol with 100 grains of Triple 7 behind a 250 gr Barnes Copper Solid but that grip was definitely made for smaller hands. Every round would send the trigger guard slamming into my middle and ring fingers so violently I was wondering on the first shot if I broke them. I just couldn’t grip tight enough to make it work or convince my dad to ease back to 75 grains.

The Mossberg 835 3 1/2” 12 ga with composite stock was the worst I ever tried.
 
I enjoyed the heck out of shooting a Traditions .50 cal. pistol with 100 grains of Triple 7 behind a 250 gr Barnes Copper Solid but that grip was definitely made for smaller hands. Every round would send the trigger guard slamming into my middle and ring fingers so violently I was wondering on the first shot if I broke them. I just couldn’t grip tight enough to make it work or convince my dad to ease back to 75 grains.

The Mossberg 835 3 1/2” 12 ga with composite stock was the worst I ever tried.

My contender will do that if you try to use a normal two handed pistol grip. I'm pretty sure I did fracture the knuckle on my left hand last year. I learned to grip with my left hand one knuckle down from what your used to and to wrap my left thumb behind my right and that solved it for me.
 
Stock design has an influence on felt recoil. Some of the old SXS shotguns had so much drop at the heel that they would pivot on your shoulder and smack you in the cheek.

We tried three rifles off of the bench one day with surprising results. We shot a Ruger 77 in 270. Another in 7mm Mag and a Remington 700 BDL in 280. By the printed ballistics you would think that the recoil would be heaviest from the Mag, but all three of us agreed that the 280 was the worst. It had to be stock design. All loads were very similar as to bullet weight.
 
Stock design has an influence on felt recoil. Some of the old SXS shotguns had so much drop at the heel that they would pivot on your shoulder and smack you in the cheek.

We tried three rifles off of the bench one day with surprising results. We shot a Ruger 77 in 270. Another in 7mm Mag and a Remington 700 BDL in 280. By the printed ballistics you would think that the recoil would be heaviest from the Mag, but all three of us agreed that the 280 was the worst. It had to be stock design. All loads were very similar as to bullet weight.
Stock design definitely plays in. The old steel or hard plastic butt plates don't help the cause any.
 
I enjoyed the heck out of shooting a Traditions .50 cal. pistol with 100 grains of Triple 7 behind a 250 gr Barnes Copper Solid but that grip was definitely made for smaller hands. Every round would send the trigger guard slamming into my middle and ring fingers so violently I was wondering on the first shot if I broke them. I just couldn’t grip tight enough to make it work or convince my dad to ease back to 75 grains.

The Mossberg 835 3 1/2” 12 ga with composite stock was the worst I ever tried.
Super Blackhawks do the same thing to me. I shot a traditions 54 cal plains pistol with 60fffg and a maxiball. It is fun and surprisingly accurate.
 
Stock design has an influence on felt recoil. Some of the old SXS shotguns had so much drop at the heel that they would pivot on your shoulder and smack you in the cheek.

My father in law has an Encore rifle in 270 that we all call "bucky". It does the same thing.
 
Actual recoil is a math equation; perceived recoil, aka "kick" is a factor of gun fit - doesn't matter if it is a handgun, rifle or shotgun
 
The biggest rifle round I've shot so far is a 30-06 and while it kicks it doesn't really seem any different than my 308.

I was offered the chance to shoot a buddies old 45-70 lever action a while back but seeing the butt of that thing scared me away. Wasn't the lack of cushion but the fact that the factory metal looked like a pitchfork.


A 12g with 3" slugs is still the most recoil I've encountered on a long gun thus far, and even that isn't terrible.
 
A friend brought his 416 Weatherby to a club so one of the owner's sons could shoot it (Son is in his 30s). With a 400 grain bullet, recoil is retina-detaching 80+ #-ft of recoil!
I'm too old for that stuff.
 
A bud of mine, who owns "every" big handgun there is, claims the 454 Casull hurts more than the 500 S&W, regardless of the pistol it is chambered in. He says "recoil impulse". I really don't understand owning a pistol, that weighs as much as a lever action, chambered in a punishing round that would give outstanding performance in a rifle, but, each to their own.
 
Stock design has an influence on felt recoil. Some of the old SXS shotguns had so much drop at the heel that they would pivot on your shoulder and smack you in the cheek.

We tried three rifles off of the bench one day with surprising results. We shot a Ruger 77 in 270. Another in 7mm Mag and a Remington 700 BDL in 280. By the printed ballistics you would think that the recoil would be heaviest from the Mag, but all three of us agreed that the 280 was the worst. It had to be stock design. All loads were very similar as to bullet weight.

It has a lot to do with perceived recoil. My Dad had a 7mm Rem. Mag. 700 BDL that is the most punishing rifle I have yet shot. the wrist was so thin, I don't know how it didn't snap. The butt was too thin for the caliber, and had the satndard Pachmyr pad. I had a Ruger 77 .300 Win. Mag. at the same time that had a McMillan M40 stock on it, which had a Sako palm swell on it (Big difference, not only in recoil comfort, but control) and a Sorbothane pad.. That rifle was a joy to shoot, kick myself for selling it. I have fired .416 Mags that felt lighter than that 7mm, and even the M203 was nothing compared to it.
 
How about a four bore elephant rifle? 385 gr FG, 2000 gr bullet, 240 ft lbs of recoil.

Don't anybody start in with "But it's a more gentle push than a violent shove." No it isn't. It is a violent, painful recoil. I know from experience.
I would NOT shoot that more than once, but curiosity would get me if I had it around, and I'd probably have to try it. ONCE.
 
The more I concentrate on the target and the shot, the less I preceive the recoil. It is the same effect as when hunting; you pull the trigger on game, you very seldom ever notice the shot. You simply translate the hunting concentration to the target at the range.
 
Absolutely. The more recoil, the sooner the flinch shows up. I have been having a terrible time getting the accuracy I want, out of my 35 Whelen's, and I am convinced it is due to recoil. I prefer to shoot ten shot groups to determine accuracy. It does not take too many 200 gr, 225 gr ten shot groups before I am bucking and kicking like a donkey, before the trigger breaks.

I've been working up loads for my 9.3x62mm Mauser, which is ballistically very similar to the 35 Whelen. (286 Gr @ 2500fps). Hunting might be one thing, but I was apprehensive as to what it would be like shooting from a bench.

I got one of those Caldwell Mag Plus pads, you wear on your shoulder, for the task. They're great. Try one. With the pad it seems a tad lighter than my .308 Win, and the 9.3 is only 8.5 lbs scoped. You can shoot 50-100 in a session with no issues, other than some possible elbow abrasion from sliding with the recoil on a concrete bench. Great for working up loads.


Now it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot.
 
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It depends on the ammo too.

I have an 8mm Turk Mauser, and I've never been able to find one consistent supply of ammo for it, so I just buy whatever I find at gun shows or at the more well-stocked gun stores. I found some "light ball" ammo for it (Romanian, I think???) that made it downright pleasant to shoot. It's kind of a big shove like a 45-70.

I also found some Ecuadorian surplus, likely some machine gun loads, that I literally could not go through more than two clips of at a time. It just drove that skinny steel buttplate straight back and punched me in the shoulder. 10 bullets through that would have me still feeling sore a couple hours later.

Same gun, same caliber, but WAY different levels of kick.

On another note, if anyone knows where to find some of that light ball stuff (steel cased, red primer, I want to say?) please PM me.
 
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It depends on the ammo too.

I have an 8mm Turk Mauser, and I've never been able to find one consistent supply of ammo for it, so I just buy whatever I find at gun shows or at the more well-stocked gun stores. I found some "light ball" ammo for it (Romanian, I think???) that made it downright pleasant to shoot. It's kind of a big shove like a 45-70.

I also found some Ecuadorian surplus, likely some machine gun loads, that I literally could not go through more than two clips of at a time. It just drove that skinny steel buttplate straight back and punched me in the shoulder. 10 bullets through that would have me still feeling sore a couple hours later.

Same gun, same caliber, but WAY different levels of kick.

On another note, if anyone knows where to find some of that light ball stuff (steel cased, red primer, I want to say?) please PM me.
The Sellier and Bellot 196 gr fmjs are the worst thing I shot from Turkish Mauser. I could only shoot 4 with a t-shirt on.
 
[QUOTE="mcb, post: 10852274, member: 62536"

Perceived recoil IS reality![/QUOTE]

Perceived recoil is what you think happened, reality is what actually happened. There can be a big difference. Which is why wearing ear protection alters the perception of recoil.
 
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[QUOTE="mcb, post: 10852274, member: 62536"

Perceived recoil IS reality!
Perceived recoil is what you think happened, reality is what actually happened. There can be a big difference. Which is why wearing ear protection alters the perception of recoil.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely and why we seem to have a lot of women who act afraid of firing a gun as the noise scares the snot out of them and that helps make the perceived recoil seem greater than it is. Coupled with a bad fitting gun that adds some smack to the sound and that turns off many folks.
 
A lot of people are afraid of guns because some dillwad handed them a 12 ga or 30-06 when they were younger and snickered as it kicked the snot out of them because they didn’t know the proper way to hold it into there shoulder or how to stand to prevent ending up on their butt. There are about 1000 examples of this on YouTube.
 
I got one of those Caldwell Mag Plus pads, you wear on your shoulder, for the task.

I tried the Cadwell mag plus, it sticks out about an 1/2 from the shoulder, I could not get a good stock weld. I am using the Cadwell field pad. These devices do cushion the recoil, but, it does not go away! F=MA whether you are using a pad or not!
 
I also found some Ecuadorian surplus, likely some machine gun loads, that I literally could not go through more than two clips of at a time. It just drove that skinny steel buttplate straight back and punched me in the shoulder. 10 bullets through that would have me still feeling sore a couple hours later.

If old surplus ammunition is giving higher than expected recoil, sticky extraction, any over pressure signs, stop shooting the stuff. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, examine the cases for evidence of corrosion

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If there is evidence of corrosion, don't re use the cases. Gunpowder deteriorates, and nothing about old gunpowder is good. Old gunpowder will, and has, blown up rifles:

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If the cases don't show evidence of internal corrosion, due to outgassing from the gunpowder, you can try to reload with new gunpowder and see how the cases hold up.
 
These devices do cushion the recoil, but, it does not go away! F=MA whether you are using a pad or not!

They do work very well for me. A flinch would be a bad thing to get.

Sorry they didn't work for you. Was merely trying to help, not promise you the laws of physics would be reversed.
 
I would NOT shoot that more than once, but curiosity would get me if I had it around, and I'd probably have to try it. ONCE.
Well, it did weigh 18 pounds, and it had an enormous butt plate with a cushy pad.. Not a gun you shoot sitting at a bench. You have to take a step backwards with the recoil. BTW it pushes that 2000 gr conical bullet at around 1500 FPS.
 
I've been working up loads for my 9.3x62mm Mauser, which is ballistically very similar to the 35 Whelen. (286 Gr @ 2500fps). Hunting might be one thing, but I was apprehensive as to what it would be like shooting from a bench.

I got one of those Caldwell Mag Plus pads, you wear on your shoulder, for the task. They're great. Try one. With the pad it seems a tad lighter than my .308 Win, and the 9.3 is only 8.5 lbs scoped. You can shoot 50-100 in a session with no issues, other than some possible elbow abrasion from sliding with the recoil on a concrete bench. Great for working up loads.


Now it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot.
even reading what you said, that picture is intimidating.
 
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