.38 Special specific guns vs. .38 Special in a .357

The 38/357 is the difference in chambers. The 38 in a 38 chamber will let a lswc center in the beginning of the cylinder throat. Better alignment.

A 38 in a 357 chamber will have to jump the gap till it enters the cylinders throat.

38 in a 357 like mentioned gives a much longer gap. This let’s high temperature, high pressure gas get around the base of the bullet. This will (at least in theory) damage the base of the bullet which is very important for achieving the greatest accuracy. With damaged base, bullets don’t fly well. Lead bullets would be much worse than jacketed bullet rounds in this scenario.

Recall the various accuracy tests conducted on Colt Pythons and K and L frame S&W that were used in Bullseye and PCC.
Most were shot with factory cylinders chambered for .357 Remington Magnum. Shooting light target 38 SPL WC bullets was the norm.
My guess the length and soft lead of the 148 grain bullets allowed the one tenth of a inch bullet travel to have little effect on target.
I know my own revolver shooting scores haven't shown any clear advantage.

In theory it sounds like the jump in the .357 would effect accuracy but in reality it really doesn't. If that were true how could we explain the excellent accuracy achieved with wadcutter bullets that are seated flush with the case mouth?

If the tiny jump effects accuracy can't shoot well enough to prove it.

I'm not a ballistics engineer, it's just my opinion as a shooter who shoots a lot of 38/357 ammo.

earplug said:

Most were shot with factory cylinders chambered for .357 Remington Magnum. Shooting light target 38 SPL WC bullets was the norm.

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The trick is to seat the wad cutter with a longet OAL into the throat.

ArchAngelCD said:

wadcutter bullets that are seated flush with the case mouth?

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Only for a S&W M52. True, most cant shoot well enough to see any difference on target.

The jump from the throat to the forcing cone is much more severe than the jump from a .38 special case to the .357 cylinder throat. The front of the bullet will have entered the throat before the rear of the bullet leaves the case.

The Ruger Redhawk in 45 colt/45acp would seen to have a longer jump with the acp? The difference in diameter would let the acp rattle around in the chamber. Have not seen or shot one.https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/22/review-ruger-redhawk-45-acp45-colt-revolver/
The Blackhawk with 2 cylinders is a better idea. Had one, but accuracy was not great with cast bullets.

I have shot many thousands of rounds (lead bullet reloads) of both types through a wide variety of both chamberings and never came up with a definitive answer. Some .357's shot .38's better than .357's. In general I'd say this is a theory that mostly does not play out in practice with the .38/.357, though a specific .357 revolver might prefer ammo in it's native chambering.

With American made revolvers 2" groups or better at 25 yards off sandbags is the norm with a good load regardless of the chambering. Of the guns I've had I never found one that couldn't do that, though some required a bit of minor gunsmithing.

The two most accurate revolvers I've ever owned were an 8" Colt Python Target chambered in .38 spl. and an 8" Dan Wesson Model 15 in .357. I'd have to call them a tie with .38 ammo. I shot both off sandbags a lot because frankly they were too damn heavy to shoot off-hand for long.

With a reload of a 158gr cast SWC over W231 either revolver would shoot under an inch if I could hold it that steady, even off sandbags it could be hard to do. But it happened enough times that I am convinced I reached the limit of my ability at the time. With my current ageing eyes I doubt I could do it.

In .38/.357 I have not seen any obvious difference in real world use.

Edited due to brain fart regarding .45. Experience with Black Hawk and different cylinders does not apply to the situation at hand.

I have plenty of 38 and 357 revolvers. I mostly shoot 38's out of them. The 357 revolvers shoot them just fine. I consider the "jumping the gap causes poor accuracy" argument to be nonsense.

I've shot .38 and .357 for over 40 years using revolvers chambered in each. I have never noticed a .38 being less accurate out of a .357 revolver. Yes, it usually has a longer jump from a revolver chambered in .357 but the forcing cone will ensure it enters the barrel as it should.

I have loaded 148 wadcutters to shoot from my .357 Model 19 S&W in both .38 special and .357 magnum cases. I certainly haven't been able to detect any difference in accuracy - it can outshoot me with either load any day.

I call poppy cock on this Gun Legend.

Hi...
I have never fired a .38Spl round out of any of my .357Mag handguns.
I don't like the fouling I have seen in other people's .357 revolvers from shooting .38s in them.
I have a couple of .38 revolvers, so I shoot .357s exclusively in my half dozen .357 revolvers.
As to accuracy differences, I have no knowledge in that aspect of the conversation...as I stated I have never fired a .38Spl cartridge in my .357 revolvers.

I do not shoot .44Spl cartridges in my .44 Magnum revolvers for the same reason.

I'm the same way. I got my GP100 to shoot 357mag...if I want to shoot 38spl, I have a Model 10 and a Model 15.
Back in the days of 6" Model 14's ruling bullseye shooting, I don't recall any Model 19's taking them on...

I've found them to shoot at different points of aim. One may shoot high or low, which would cause an inexperienced shooter to perceive bad accuracy.

load dynamics will be different between the two cases. which makes any comparison difficult at best. the accuracy of the firearms would be the deciding factor in any difference in accuracy, imo.

murf

Tallball said:

I have plenty of 38 and 357 revolvers. I mostly shoot 38's out of them. The 357 revolvers shoot them just fine. I consider the "jumping the gap causes poor accuracy" argument to be nonsense.

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I agree. I shoot Special loads in my .357's sometimes, but always in .357 cases, so the fouling never exists, as does not the "gap jumping". I reload ALL my ammo, so I simply make minor adjustments to compensate for the extra length of the .357 cases. These "soft" recoil cartridges are particularly liked by people who have never fired center-fire handguns before. Particularly in my GP100.

my understanding is that you have the 38 bullet still in the case when it enters the throat in the chamber, whereas in a 45acp bullet, you have a lot more weight in the ogive, and a lot more jump in a colt cylinder. I have never heard anyone complain about wadcutter accuracy in a 357.

Back when I was shooting the NRA PPC matches with revolvers and 38 Wadcutters, most of the competitors I shot against used 357 magnum S&Ws and a few Pythons for the base to build their bull guns. No one ever complained or cared about the 357 chamber they were shooting those 38s out of.

The best example I know of to illustrate there can be problems with a very long lead to the rifling is the Judge and Governor revolvers. I've personally seen and read even more cases where the 45 ACP rounds and even the 45 Colt rounds did not group all that well out of the "410 gage" chambers. With that exaggerated jump the possibility of bullet up-set and instability increases considerably.

YMMV,
Dave

For whatever its worth department: When I began competition shooting, the only centerfire revolver I had was a .357 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk. I shot this in centerfire competition, using club-loaded .38 Special wadcutters, and placed pretty well with that combination. And, no, never had too much trouble cleaning the chambers, either.

Bob Wright

Just my opinion...

Top bullseye shooters can probably tell the difference between shooting 38 Special in a 38 Special gun or a 357 Magnum gun. But most of us poor mortals probably cannot tell the difference.

Since I have similar guns chambered in each 38 Special or 357 Magnum, I prefer to shoot only 357 Magnum cases in the 357 magnum chambers.

I've never had problems cleaning the 38 special carbon ring out of a 357 Magnum chamber, I just do not want to.

Besides, there is something special about shooting 38 Special in a 38 Special gun. (Goes for 44 Special as well.)

This carbon ring you guys worry about. I think its either over blown or I am shooting really clean ammo. I shoot tons of 38 Short Colt in my 627. Despite the fact that its been several hundreds rounds since it was last cleaned I know I could grab a 357 Mag moonclip and it will drop right into the cylinder, fire, and eject without issue. Are you guys shooting black powder or something?