Help me pick a new hunting rifle/cartridge

Settle on your cartridge first. Since you don't handload, the .308 will give you the widest selection of factory ammo, although offerings in 6.5 Creedmoor are growing and it will definitely give you some relief on recoil. If you are very recoil sensitive, you might look at the .243 Winchester; it is a classic cartridge and there are still a lot of factory loads available for it. Any of these three will work well on whitetail.

As to rifle, knowing your budget and how you plan to hunt will help narrow the field. I'd think a Cooper 54 Excalibur in .243 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor would be outstanding, but that may be more than you want to spend.

So what kind of hunting? Are you looking for a lightweight quick-handling carbine for woods hunting? A heavy-barreled rifle for shooting across fields from a fixed stand? A "mountain" rifle that needs to be light for climbing hills while still having a longer barrel for shooting across wide open spaces? My "go to" deer rifle for a lot of years has been a Remington Model 7 in .308 that I dropped in an HS Precision stock. It's perfect for the hardwoods of NY and PA, where most shots are under 150 yards with the occasional stretch to 350. But if I were hunting open spaces, I'd opt for my Cooper in .260 Remington. It has a 24" barrel compared to the Model 7's 18.5" tube.

Long time 30-06 and 308 user. I'm heavily invested in 30-06 and 308 rifles,optics, scopes, and have spent time and effort developing loads that I like. At this stage of my life I don't want to invest that degree of time and money in a new cartridge. But if I were younger, or advising someone younger I'd go 6.5 Creedmoor and never look back. Just to see what the deal was all about I did buy a cheap 6.5 rifle to play around with and I'm sold on it. Nothing at all wrong with 308 or 7-08. It's just that with todays bullets, rifles, and optics the 6.5 does basically does everything the 270 has done for almost 100 years. With significantly less recoil. It is just a matter of time until it surpasses 308 in new rifle sales. Ammo is already readily available. Much more so than 7-08. You can buy cheap plinking ammo for 308 cheaper. But quality match or hunting ammo for either is the same price. And quite reasonable.

As a target round the 6.5 is clearly better at any range. The difference out to 400-500 yards is small, but in the favor of the 6.5. Beyond 500 yards the 6.5 pulls away and by the time you get to 800 yards the 308 starts running out of gas. The 6.5 will remain above 1000 fps out to 2000 yards more than doubling the effective range for military snipers who are using the round now.

The 308 looks better as a hunting cartridge at ranges under 300-400 yards if you just use energy numbers. But where it counts there isn't a game animal on the earth that will ever know the difference. If a 6.5 CM shooting a 140 gr bullet won't kill it neither will a 308. In fact if you are shooting 150-165 gr bullets in a 308, the 140-147's in a 6.5 will penetrate significantly better. Once you move up to 175-180 gr 308 bullets then you start seeing penetration at about the same level. But with bullets that heavy 308 struggles to shoot them fast enough and trajectory and recoil become even bigger factors.

Recoil wise the 6.5 is closer to 243 than 308. The biggest edge 308 has over 6.5 is barrel life. Expect a 6.5 barrel to be good enough for target shooting for 3000-4000 rounds. A 308 will last about double that, and both will be acceptable for hunting for even more rounds. Most hunters will never wear out a barrel on either. But if you shoot a lot, and want extreme precision is something to consider.

I have a Winchester EW in 308. I like the rifle well enough, but not the stock. Once I changed to a McMillan Edge stock it reduced weight by 1/2 lb and it became my go-to rifle. I'd highly recommend the rifle, if you can live with the stock. Or are willing to upgrade like I did.

I also have a Kimber 84 in 308. It weighs right at 6 lbs SCOPED. +/- two to four ounces depending on the scope. Mine shoots great, but with a rifle that light can be hard to master. Plus recoil is a little stiff, about the same as a standard weight 30-06. In the low recoiling 6.5 CM I'd think it a perfect match.

No personal knowledge about the Barret rifle, but I'm hearing great things about them. They are about the same weight as Kimber, but $400ish more.

I don't think Sako is ever bad choice.

jmr40 said:

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I don't think Sako is ever bad choice.

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What he said. Nor is .308 nor 7mm-08 nor .260, nor (I suspect) 6.5 CM. I would definitely pick a Sako (and have).

You might look at Browning. Smooth, accurate. Nice trigger. Selection of stocks. I got one in 7 Mag because it was a screaming deal. They have rifles in 6.5, which would be my choice.

The Creed seems to be the round that the .270, .257 Bob, 7-08, .25-06, and the .243 wanted to be but never were.

I got a VX-6 Firedot 2-12x42 for mine. Absolutely awesome scope for hunting.

Look at the Ruger Americans, in either 6.5 CM or 308. I have a predator in 308, with a 18" barrel that came threaded. I didn't care for the stock, and replaced it with a Boyd's laminate. I took advantage of the threaded muzzle, and installed a surefire muzzle brake I had laying around. It helps somewhat with recoil (but it is loud). A friend ( active duty Special Forces sniper) has the same rifle in 6.5 and he loves his.

Sounds like that if you want reduced recoil and ultimate performance, the 6.5 is the choice. I have the M70 EW and Kimber 84M both in .308 - both are great rifles - the caliber is also great for my use. If I was starting fresh as a younger man, my ultimate choice would be the 6.5 in the M70 EW - I think that would be a great combo.

If you want something with less recoil than your 30/06 I'd get a 243. They are usually very accurate, making them easy to shoot well, shoot flatter than a 6.5 CM (with noticeably less recoil) and have more than enough power for what you typically hunt.

Sako. I did 25 years ago and no regrets.

If you have a 30-06 and 6.5 grendel, then a 243 or 6.5cm are my recommendations.
Low recoil makes it fun to shoot.
My wife's 260 hammers deer and it is a twin to the 6.5cm.

I have a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39 that I'm really happy with. Federal Fusion looks like good food for it.

I’d get a Winchester, Sako or Bergara. Other than recoil it won’t make a difference whether you use .243, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 or .308 for shooting 100 lb. deer.

For 100 lb deer I feel .243 is more than enough and just fine for hogs. Just be mindful of the barrel twist rate.

The .243 Win is an excellent deer cartridge, especially for deer under 150 lbs or so. Ammo choice these days is better than ever and I'm planning to use Winchester "Deer Season" ammo this year in my .243s. I have two and tend to carry my Tikka T3 Lite when doing a lot of walking and hunting where shots are expected to be 200 yards or less.

There are other choices these days, including using "Reduced Recoil" rounds in cartridges like .308 Win, 30-06, .270 Win. I've tried some in my .270 and they shoot well, but print to a different POI, so don't currently use them. Bought them as an alternative to buying new rifles using lighter-recoiling rounds for grandkids, but the kids are all big enough to use full-charge loads.

Another cartridge that impresses me is the 7mm-08. A lady friend bought a used Rem. 7 and I did some work on the stock to shorten and bed it. She shot a 180 lb buck with it last year. I'd prefer a Tikka though.

I have a .243 and a 6.5x55 which has the same recoil as a 6.5 Creedmoor. There is a definite noticeable difference in recoil between the two.

I’m very cognizant of recoil. There are many who aren’t, at least that is what they’d have you believe.

I agree with the Sako recommendations. As an owner, I can tell you they are fantastic rifles. If you're wanting to opt for a short action configuration, I also like the 260 Rem. The 6.5 CM is the current wonder-cartridge. I'm not knocking it, as it has proven to be very effective and efficient. I just typically buck current trends, which I also did ~20 years ago when the short and super short mag craze hit. Remember that?

For considerably less $ than the Sako, Browning makes a nice little rig as well. I have an older model A-bolt in 308 Win and it's a fantastic little carry rifle and truck gun for me.

If you want to expand beyond short action, I'd also recommend a 257 Roberts, a 6.5x55 Swede, and a 7x57 Mauser.

edapp said:

Does anyone that shoots .243 and 6.5 creedmoor in similar rifles have a comparison regarding recoil? If it is close I would probably go 6.5.

... In .243 I think the only advantage would be recoil, so the question becomes how much of a difference is there really? Weighing recoil and performance between the two, which would you pick?

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Best deer hunting bullets in .243 will be 95-105 grain. Since you don't plan to hunt out beyond 400 yards, no reason to go with the heaviest 6.5 bullets in the Creedmoor, so something in the 120-130 class would be fine. You know how it works. All else equal (same gun, same configuration, same velocity), you will feel the heavier bullets from the 6.5 Creedmoor more than the lighter bullets from the .243. You will feel the difference more in a lightweight rifle than a heavier gun. I'm shooting 105s in my .243 Remington 700 and 140s in my .260 Rem Cooper. The Cooper is lighter, and the recoil is definitely stronger. However, both have less recoil than a 150 grain .308 pushed to similar velocity.

In my experience, the difference in felt recoil between a .243 Win pushing a 105 grain bullet and a .260 Rem pushing a 140 grain bullet is greater than the difference between the same .260 Rem pushing a 140 and a .308 Winchester pushing a 150 or 165 grain bullet. But rifle weight and configuration will have significant impact on felt recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor will most assuredly have less recoil than your .308. If you find the .308's recoil mildly annoying, you should be fine with the 6.5. However, if you find the .308 uncomfortable to the point of pain, you might be better off with the .243. If you were close, I'd be happy to let you feel the difference.

All my kids who hunt started out with a Remington Model 7 in .243 Win. I like my .260 Remingtons and would no doubt buy a 6.5 Creedmoor if I didn't already have multiple .260s. But I won't be without a .243. It is an outstanding low-recoiling cartridge suitable for varmints, pronghorn, sheep, and whitetail. That said, I would recommend the 6.5 Creedmoor to someone starting out from scratch who wanted one, do everything hunting rifle. You can manage the recoil by sticking to the loads with lighter bullets.

Finally, at some point, you really need to think about getting into handloading.

edapp said:

I would like to replace a few with something nice that is worth putting some good glass on and leaving alone for life.

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Go .308, widest availability of factory ammo and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. YOU DON'T RELOAD and you're already set-up for .308, people are missing that! As mentioned above it will also give you a longer barrel life, however be aware you won't look as cool on the range shooting a plain ole' .308. Recoil really is a non issue with the short action rounds, I wouldn't let that sway your decision. I have a 125gr accubond load that does 3,100 and you can shoot it with one hand (in a 6.5lb complete rifle), if you're that worried about recoil. Cool factor 6.5creed wins but when something else cooler comes along everyone will jump ship and go to the next.

It’s a hunting rifle - the difference between 3000 and 4500 rounds of barrel life is wholly irrelevant.

Dude orders online, and it’s a hunting rifle - in reality, he’s going to find one or two loads and shoot those the rest of his life so variety isn’t largely relevant. Availability is only an issue if he won’t buy sufficient inventory and suddenly needs some when we hit another slump. But it’s a hunting rifle. A box or two will last a season with ease - so if he keeps 5 boxes on hand, he’ll be groovy for any slump.

He’s hunting smallish deer and hogs at short ranges - he doesn’t need much horsepower to successfully accomplish his task. The Grendel he owns is sufficiently powered to do the job, so any more powder is just gravy. A 6.5 creed or 243win is more than enough for the job, 308 is more more, but comes with a lot more recoil, without any additional killing power for his target game.

For me, all of the above points to 6.5 creed or 7-08, with .243win as an honorable mention. Any of these three will hold ammo availability for the rest of your lifetime and beyond, and will do the job effectively and efficiently. Recoil will be low, and performance from a 20-22” barrel will be sufficient - with the exception of the 243win, who will bark pretty loudly from a shorter tube (a linear compensator can push that away from the shooter if you prefer).