The 357 Magnum and my hands.

Try the new S&W 586L-Comp. It has a ported barrel and is a 7 shooter. What's not to like?

sgt127 said:

[...]I’m hardly unarmed with a good .44 Special.... I’ll likely survive.

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Not a lot wrong with .38 Special either, all considered, and K frames shoot it like they were just made for it.

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MikeInOr said:

I have been considering buying a shooting glove / weight lifting glove for my more obnoxious hand guns. I have a light weight 5" Desert Eagle in 50ae... it doesn't bother me at all. But my DB9 9mm sub-subcompact does not get the range time I would like because of its painful kick (after 20 rounds I don't want to shoot it any more). Does anyone use a shooting glove to tame recoil and save the web of their hand?

These are the ones I have been looking at: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EJZQBPO/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3AHBBWF9HQVTB

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I had extensive right hand surgery due to RA and found these bike gloves helped a lot. They were comfortable and not bulky feeling.

I love 357 Magnum guns. Model 19's and 66's especially. I do not really enjoy shooting magnum ammo in them. Never have. I don't know how many 357 guns I've owned over the years, but I'll bet it in the dozens. I have probably fired over 500 rounds of magnum ammo (it's probably a lot less actually) in all of them put together, including the full box of Fiochi 140 grain I shot in my new model 19 a couple of days ago. It's quite likely those will be last magnum ammo I shoot in it. I just don't see any real reason to. I'm not using them for hunting or self defense, so I don't "need" the power. The 38 Special punches a hole in a piece of paper just as well.

Come to the "lite" side.

I've shot a total of 5 rounds - one cylinder - of full mags in this 640-1. That was enough.

The revolver can do it, I can do it, but it's not my idea of fun.

I feed it downloaded 357 now, and when I carry this one, it's 38+p.

Having a grip that really fits you well helps with magnums.

I like Nill grips for this reason. I need a large grip.

Here we go again. What does "needing the power" when you are carrying or hunting have to do with shooting at the range. I understand wanting to be familiar with the characteristics of the gun when firing full power mag loads, but once you verify you can control it, why would you need to practice with it? Maybe a few rounds every trip to the range, say 5 or 10 just to stay sharp, but the bulk of your rounds fired can surely be .38 Specials. The couple of full power mag rounds you might have to let loose on a perp on the street will never bother you regarding hand comfort. I assure you of that.

I'm genuinely curious why a .44 Special might have lower recoil than a 38/.357. This thread mentioned the S&W 696 and a search turned up an article praising the .44 for it's lower recoil. But why? I quantify recoil in terms of velocity, impulse and energy. Heavy guns will lower the velocity of recoil of a certain energy level. But the 696 isn't particularly heavy compared to typical .357's on K or L frames. So the only way I can see it having less recoil is if it was loaded with less energy.

A 158 grain bullet going 1250fps will generate about 10 and a half ft.lbf of recoil energy, with a little over a pound second of impulse at ~18 fps. A 220 gr. bullet accelerated to 900fps will do the same. The "power factor" is also about the same, close to 200 for both.

I've got severe arthritis in both shoulders and the knuckles of both hands are swollen into big lumps. Recoil never bothered me in my 20s, 30s, 40s, or 50s. Some where along about the 60s stuff started hurting. It's called getting old. Deal with it how ever works best for you. I shoot 45 ACP and 45 Colt these days and even some of them hurt. Dang I hate this!

Dave

labnoti said:

I'm genuinely curious why a .44 Special might have lower recoil than a 38/.357. This thread mentioned the S&W 696 and a search turned up an article praising the .44 for it's lower recoil. But why? I quantify recoil in terms of velocity, impulse and energy. Heavy guns will lower the velocity of recoil of a certain energy level. But the 696 isn't particularly heavy compared to typical .357's on K or L frames. So the only way I can see it having less recoil is if it was loaded with less energy.

A 158 grain bullet going 1250fps will generate about 10 and a half ft.lbf of recoil energy, with a little over a pound second of impulse at ~18 fps. A 220 gr. bullet accelerated to 900fps will do the same. The "power factor" is also about the same, close to 200 for both.

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Follow this:
At equal energy for two bullets 1 and 2, 0.5m1v1^2=0.5m2v2^2
Cancelling the 0.5 on both sides gives m1v1^2=m2v2^2
Dividing both sides by v1 gives m1v1=m2v2(v2/v1)
If m1>m2, then at same energy for the two bullets v2>v1 or v2/v1>1
So therefore m1v1>m2v2. Putting this into words, when the energies of two bullets are the same, the momentum of the heavier bullet is greater than the momentum of the lighter bullet. Momentum produces recoil, more momentum forward, more recoil backward. There is the proof. Heavier bullets produce more recoil than lighter bullets at the same muzzle energy. If you aren't feeling this, it must be due to the relative weights of the guns.

Also, more practically, your estimates of energy are off. The .44 has only 396 ftxlb of muzzle energy compared to 548 for the .357. Power factors are simply another name for momentum expressed in unusual units. At these disparate energies the momentum’s are almost the same. The heavier .44 frame must explain the recoil difference as slight as it is.

This was yesterday. 180gr hard casts through the sp101 . Makes me feel all tingly.

Walkalong said:

Who makes those?

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Walkalong, Any decent bicycle shop will have a selection of these types of gloves. I strongly suggest trying cycling gloves on before buying. I'm an avid cyclist and finding gloves that fit my hands is always an adventure. I also spent 2 years post retirement working at a bike shop....

glad you can still "kick it" with the 696. the 44 special is an extremely effective, and 357 mag comparable, cartridge.

luck,

murf

rpenmanparker said:

Also, more practically, your estimates of energy are off. The .44 has only 396 ftxlb of muzzle energy compared to 548 for the .357. Power factors are simply another name for momentum expressed in unusual units. At these disparate energies the momentum’s are almost the same. The heavier .44 frame must explain the recoil difference as slight as it is.

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I follow you just fine, but my estimates of energy are not off. See that I estimated recoil energy, not muzzle energy. You're right the .357 in my example has more muzzle energy -- a lot more as you indicated. But the recoil energy is about the same, as is the recoil impulse and velocity, given guns of the same weight.

The way it appears from the calculations is that a .357 would have to be loaded pretty hot and the .44 special fairly light before there was much difference in the recoil. Of course, a .38 Special could be loaded light, and a .44 magnum hot. So what seems to be the difference is the load and not the caliber or the gun at all. But I'm open to another explanation why the 696 or another .44 Special is considered low-recoil other than because it's used to shoot light loads.

labnoti said:

I follow you just fine, but my estimates of energy are not off. See that I estimated recoil energy, not muzzle energy. You're right the .357 in my example has more muzzle energy -- a lot more as you indicated. But the recoil energy is about the same, as is the recoil impulse and velocity, given guns of the same weight.

The way it appears from the calculations is that a .357 would have to be loaded pretty hot and the .44 special fairly light before there was much difference in the recoil. Of course, a .38 Special could be loaded light, and a .44 magnum hot. So what seems to be the difference is the load and not the caliber or the gun at all. But I'm open to another explanation why the 696 or another .44 Special is considered low-recoil other than because it's used to shoot light loads.

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Okay, but you don’t say how the two guns you are talking about actually compare in weight. Are they the same or is the .44 a bigger frame with a lot more steel? Thanks.

labnoti said:

I follow you just fine, but my estimates of energy are not off. See that I estimated recoil energy, not muzzle energy. You're right the .357 in my example has more muzzle energy -- a lot more as you indicated. But the recoil energy is about the same, as is the recoil impulse and velocity, given guns of the same weight.

The way it appears from the calculations is that a .357 would have to be loaded pretty hot and the .44 special fairly light before there was much difference in the recoil. Of course, a .38 Special could be loaded light, and a .44 magnum hot. So what seems to be the difference is the load and not the caliber or the gun at all. But I'm open to another explanation why the 696 or another .44 Special is considered low-recoil other than because it's used to shoot light loads.

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You are trying to equate perceived recoil with an energy calculation. They aren't the same thing. When you involve more muzzle flip and higher pressure the gun will jump more sharply in your hand with produces more perceived torque on your wrist and hand.

My experience is that a lower pressure round, even with a heavier bullet produces more of a push into your palm than the sharp muzzle flip and torque of a magnum. Don't get hung up on the numbers in this case. They have probably less meaning in regards to perceived recoil than in any other discussion regarding firearms.

Throw a different grip on a gun, and the entire equation changes again.

Easy for me when it started the same thing & I shoot enough revolver time to where it is almost sinful.
Just go to sporting good section of any place & get a GOOD pair of BASEBALL BATTING GLOVES, cut
out the trigger finger halfway down & be sure you wear both while shooting. It is so easy to get used
to & reduces the recoil plus powder burn & everything else.
I tried shooting gloves & they bunch up with too much padding in important places but that's just me.
It is what my wife has always used while revolver shooting & of course I was forced to try it & wow!

Light gun + heavy charge = pain. Qualifying with 100 rounds of +P in a light J frame Chief Special wasn't fun either, even when I was younger.

Yup to what everyone said. I am not there yet, but know many who have. Recoil is not friendly to our bodies, so you need to download, change stocks, wear gloves, wear padded gloves, start doing hand exercises, or all of these.

K frames are much more fun in .38.

I ran out of .38 ammo at an IDPA classifier a couple years ago and pressed on with 357s. 60 rounds in a wood stocked 19 with bare hands was... too much. Occasional for me now.

sgt127 said:

When I grip a revolver, even a K Frame, (pictured is a Speed Six) the horn of the Frame is not centered in the web of my hand. The thumb joint is actually closer to the horn. Otherwise, I can’t reach the trigger...View attachment 796557View attachment 796558

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Sorry for two posts in a row, but this is a somewhat different topic and I wanted to treat it alone.

Getting a grip is taught with terrible diagrams. The web between your thumb and index finger is not a V. It's more or less impossible to get it centered, so you end up with a choice of the inboard or outboard notch.

As you've noticed, which one you choose changes how you address the trigger, a lot. But they also impact different parts for recoil. So, you change the control, or can avoid/exacerbate damage to your hand.

They don't make short triggers for revolvers, as far as I know, but one trick is to narrow it. A very flat, wide trigger will make you bend the finger further to address it flat. A narrow, and slightly rounded trigger can effectively increase you reach as you don't have to spend so much of your finger bending to reach the face.

Now, it's hard to tell if this is worth it with imagination. If there are good smiths in the area, they MAY have enough demo guns in stock to demo to you this change and you can tell if worth it. But, you know, finding a good smith anymore.

Walkalong said:

Who makes those?

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The company is "Specialized Bicycle Components" Morgan Hill, California. I found them in a local bicycle shop after getting advice here on using bicycle gloves while recovering from surgery.