Marlin 336 issues

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MidRoad

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Ok so having some magazinr tube feeding issues with my 336ss Marlin 30-30.

Background
Bought the gun new 3 years ago. Hunted with it my first year ,took a deer and it sat in the safe the next couple of seasons. Main reason I didn't take it out was because it was rough and didn't always feed reliable. So last winter I watched a few you tube videos on smoothing out the action. So I took the gun apart and polished all the surfaces that rub against each other. I did very light sanding with 400 grit ,than 2000 grit .NO FILES USED, and I just shined up the pivot points mainly along with where the bolt contacts the hammers top edge. Definitely smoothed up the gun. Went to test for function and was having trouble with the rounds hanging in the magazine tube, than after cycling a few times the feed gate screw sheared . Posted here about it,got some good advice,and fixed the gate. Tryied her out again afterwords.and still had rounds hanging in the tube. Got annoyed and it has sat in my safe since.

So tonight I said well let's figure this out. Pulled it all apart again including removing the feed tubed and fallower, smoothed out the tool marks and took out a few burs where the bullets first enter the receiver from the feed tubed than polished it. Cleaned the feed tubed out and than made sure the fallower looked good. Reassmbled and figured it was going to be good and figured it was just the rough patch in the receiver catching the cartridge rims or something. Tested for function ,and Bam round hangs again just like before. It's not always the same round ,and doesn't matter how many rounds are in the tube still. After looking closer I found the round was actually being stopped by round lifter (not sure the proper name) shown in the picture. Other than that issue everything works as it should. I'm not really sure where to go from here. KIMG0569.JPG

I did try to push the lifter arm down with a screw driver and it seems like it is in the downward position. Could the fallower be kicking the rounds off center? I can't see how that lifter arm could shift any because it sits pretty tight in the receiver. So idk ,advice would be nice.
 
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Lifter serves two purpose. First it is the shell shop. On shotguns like the Rem 870, there are two shell stops with one on each side of the magazine tube. On the Marlin, the lifter is the shell stop which also lifts the cartridge into the path of the bolt for loading. When in the latter, it serves to "stop" the next shell from exiting the magazine tube.

Using dummy ammo, show us some pictures of the jam.
 
Lifter serves two purpose. First it is the shell shop. On shotguns like the Rem 870, there are two shell stops with one on each side of the magazine tube. On the Marlin, the lifter is the shell stop which also lifts the cartridge into the path of the bolt for loading. When in the latter, it serves to "stop" the next shell from exiting the magazine tube.

Using dummy ammo, show us some pictures of the jam.

I'll try to get some more pics to tonight . I forgot to mention when the round is hung like that you can work the lever just fine,and the carrier/lifter arm goes up and down like it should. When the. Lifter is in the position shown in that pic,I can put a screw driver through the loading gate and push back on the round, doing so let's the round spring forward,and you can see it in the loading gate,cycling the lever from there feeds it just fine.
 
When the lever is worked forward, the bolt travels rearward and if there is a cartridge or shell in the chamber, the extractor pulls it out. The lifter lowers and allows a fresh cartridge to exit from the magazine. When the lever is pulled rearward, the bolt moves forward and the lifter lifts the fresh cartridge into the bolt's path. The tab at the bottom of the lifter (you see its very bottom when the action is closed; it pops out of its window that is aft of the bottom screw for trigger group assembly) prevents any more cartridges from exiting the magazine. Continual forward movement of the bolt allows the bolt to push the cartridge from the lifter and into the chamber. Simultaneously the bolt forces lifer lower slightly.

Don't start sticking things into the loading gate to push that cartridge back into the magazine. The cartridge is as it should be and is being arrested from exiting by the lifter.
 
When the lever is worked forward, the bolt travels rearward and if there is a cartridge or shell in the chamber, the extractor pulls it out. The lifter lowers and allows a fresh cartridge to exit from the magazine. When the lever is pulled rearward, the bolt moves forward and the lifter lifts the fresh cartridge into the bolt's path. The tab at the bottom of the lifter (you see its very bottom when the action is closed; it pops out of its window that is aft of the bottom screw for trigger group assembly) prevents any more cartridges from exiting the magazine. Continual forward movement of the bolt allows the bolt to push the cartridge from the lifter and into the chamber. Simultaneously the bolt forces lifer lower slightly.

Don't start sticking things into the loading gate to push that cartridge back into the magazine. The cartridge is as it should be and is being arrested from exiting by the lifter.

Thanks for the info Gary. Not a fan of putting a screwdriver in the loading gate,but that round was indeed hung up I cycled the lever about 7-8 times and it the round wouldn't budge. It's hard to tell from the pic put the round is pushed to the left against the wall and didn't want to move untill it was pushed forward a bit, allowing it to recenter. After reading your post I wonder if the issue is that the rounds are skipping over the carrier and sliding to far back and being stopped by the edge of the loading gate. Even though that round feeds ok,the next round gets screwed up because the previous round was too far back ,so the proceeding round is not guided into the right spot and hangs up to the left? Idk though,will try to get some more pictures tonight if time permits.

I didn't get him untill late last night so was unable to take more pictures. I don't doubt what you said and it was very informative and appreciated.
 
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How is the round hung up? Where. What positions are the parts.

Get a parts diagram so we're on the same page.
 
Screenshot_20180719-121616~2.png

The round is hanging up right where 48 comes into the receiver. It's staying towards the left (from shooting position) and stoping. It looks to rest against #7 the carrier/lifter. The round hangs up as soon as the previous round is cleared from the magazine tube. When in the position shown in the picture of the OP everything on the gun moves free and functions. The round just sits right there. Unless poked at. I havent tried taping the buttstock or receiver yet because I don't have dummy rounds and am trying to be as cautious as possible. The gun has the cross bolt safety which is on, and I tape it down for safety and do everything in a safe direction because I do not have dummy rounds or have anyone to load me up a set w/o primers or powders.

Ill recuit my GF tonight and try to make a quick video of it. Sorry if I'm being frustrating.
 
Here's a crappy video . Sorry about the background mess it's in my basement for safety reasons.



If I give the receiver a good hard smack the round moves into position
 
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How is the round hung up? Where. What positions are the parts.

Get a parts diagram so we're on the same page.

After thinking about it and watching the video it seems like it's gotta be something with the mag tubes enterance or the fallower
 
The video wasn't very helpful. I couldn't see the receiver as the action is worked.

Is the lifter all the way down when that cartridge is stuck? If so, it needs to drop more.
 
The video wasn't very helpful. I couldn't see the receiver as the action is worked.

Is the lifter all the way down when that cartridge is stuck? If so, it needs to drop more.
Hmm ok I believe it was all the way down. My woman had class tonight so was on my own with the video lol,had it proped on a shoe rack. Ill get s better one tomorrow. ,again thanks for the help
 
#7 Lifter isn't going all the way down then. If it loads sometimes, something is obstructing the downward path of the #7 lifter. When the lever is worked, that tab on the bottom of the #7 lifter should pop out from the window in #20 trigger housing. See that rectangular hole #20 trigger housing that is between the screw hole near the front and huge milled out area for the #16 Lever? That hole is for the tab (actually the bottom of the cartridge stop when the lifter is rotated all the way up) on #7 lifter to pop out from.
 
The lever pushes the lifter down when it is closed and holds it all the way in the down position when the lever is fully closed. If the lifter were being obstructed and were being prevented from moving to the fully down position, then it would also not be possible to close the lever all the way. If the lever is closing all the way then the only possibility is that it is not properly engaging the lifter to push it down.

It is possible to check to see if the lifter is being obstructed with the following procedure.

Open the lever just slightly. Before it begins pulling the bolt back significantly, there's a section of lever travel where it will wiggle up and down about half an inch with almost no resistance. Open it further and the bolt will start to be cammed back. Try to close it further and it will require some pressure. But between those two endpoints, the lever is almost slack.

When the lever is in the position where it's just barely open and feels like it's mostly slack, reach through the small hole between the loading gate and the receiver with something like a wooden skewer and push down on the top of the lifter. It will move down freely all the way and a small rectangle of metal (the bottom of the shell lifter) will protrude out of the bottom of the receiver.

But it seems pretty clear that the lifter can't be obstructed or the lever wouldn't fully close.

Based on the symptoms, and the other information provided, my assessment is that too much metal was removed from the lever or lifter, or both during the "polishing".
 
Another thing to look at is the position of the back end of the lever loop when the action is closed. There should be some clearance between the lever and the bottom tang or stock. If there is no clearance, the lever is not closing the action tight enough to drop the lifter into position. Marlins of any age seem to have soft levers and are prone to bend in the trigger guard section from vigorous cycling. I have observed bent levers on 336, 1894 and 39A models. They are remarkably easy to bend back into position which lead to my comment the metal is too soft.
 
That's also a possibility. If the lever is bent so that it isn't engaging the lifter properly that could cause the symptoms described. I can't quite visualize all the interactions between the lever and the other internal parts, but it seems like there would be other symptoms as well if the lever were bent.
 
If bent badly enough, the locking block won't raise far enough to make the firing pin operate but the lifter will fail to operate before that happens.
The last bent lever I encountered was on a 39A which was doing exactly what you describe on the 336.
 
The lever pushes the lifter down when it is closed and holds it all the way in the down position when the lever is fully closed. If the lifter were being obstructed and were being prevented from moving to the fully down position, then it would also not be possible to close the lever all the way. If the lever is closing all the way then the only possibility is that it is not properly engaging the lifter to push it down.

It is possible to check to see if the lifter is being obstructed with the following procedure.

Open the lever just slightly. Before it begins pulling the bolt back significantly, there's a section of lever travel where it will wiggle up and down about half an inch with almost no resistance. Open it further and the bolt will start to be cammed back. Try to close it further and it will require some pressure. But between those two endpoints, the lever is almost slack.

When the lever is in the position where it's just barely open and feels like it's mostly slack, reach through the small hole between the loading gate and the receiver with something like a wooden skewer and push down on the top of the lifter. It will move down freely all the way and a small rectangle of metal (the bottom of the shell lifter) will protrude out of the bottom of the receiver.

But it seems pretty clear that this can't be the situation or the lever wouldn't fully close.

Based on the symptoms, and the other information provided, my assessment is that too much metal was removed from the lever or lifter, or both during the "polishing".

Here's another video maybe it will help.
 
Try holding the gun upside down (lever upward, sights downward) and operating the lever very slowly. It should malfunction nearly every time.
Then try holding the gun right side up (sights up, lever down) and operating the lever briskly. It should operate nearly every time.

If that is the case, then the problem is that the lever isn't engaging positively with the lifter to drive it down as far as it needs to go to let the next shell into the chamber.

If you get significantly different results then something else is going on.
 
Ok so when operated briskly sight side up it functions normally most of the time,but still gets some hang ups.

When operated upside down in a steady yet fluent motion (not super slowy) it functions about the same as the brisk right side up

When operated upside down but very slow it missfunctions just about always.

The lever pushes the lifter down when it is closed and holds it all the way in the down position when the lever is fully closed. If the lifter were being obstructed and were being prevented from moving to the fully down position, then it would also not be possible to close the lever all the way. If the lever is closing all the way then the only possibility is that it is not properly engaging the lifter to push it down.

It is possible to check to see if the lifter is being obstructed with the following procedure.

Open the lever just slightly. Before it begins pulling the bolt back significantly, there's a section of lever travel where it will wiggle up and down about half an inch with almost no resistance. Open it further and the bolt will start to be cammed back. Try to close it further and it will require some pressure. But between those two endpoints, the lever is almost slack.

When the lever is in the position where it's just barely open and feels like it's mostly slack, reach through the small hole between the loading gate and the receiver with something like a wooden skewer and push down on the top of the lifter. It will move down freely all the way and a small rectangle of metal (the bottom of the shell lifter) will protrude out of the bottom of the receiver.

But it seems pretty clear that the lifter can't be obstructed or the lever wouldn't fully close.

Based on the symptoms, and the other information provided, my assessment is that too much metal was removed from the lever or lifter, or both during the "polishing".

I worked the lever so it was just about to contact the hammer, and am able to move the lifter freely. Here's a pic of how the tab sticks out the bottom when the lever is in the firing position
 

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When it malfunctions, the lifter is blocking the shell from coming out of the magazine. Normally this wouldn't be a problem because the lever moves the lifter down far enough to let the shell into the receiver. In your gun, the lever and lifter aren't properly engaging--the lifter isn't moved far enough down and it can still block the round from coming out of the mag.

The lifter is heavy, so once the lever gets it moving at a decent clip, it will carry through to the end of travel and let the shell out of the magazine. But when operated upside down very slowly, it doesn't get any momentum going, and gravity is working against it, so it won't travel as far as it should and it blocks the shell almost every time.

Don't have a good fix for you because it's hard to know if the lever is bent, if it's missing metal in a critical spot from the polish job, or if the missing metal is on the lifter. Assuming that I got the diagnosis exactly right, then replacing both the lever and lifter should fix it, but that would be pretty expensive and it seems unlikely that they're both bad. And, to be fair, it's always possible that I missed something and my diagnosis is incorrect or lacking.
 
Concur with John. I need to see it to fix it.

Are the cartridges factory loaded. If too short they won’t work reliably. They must be full length sized and crimped to ensure the bullet doesn’t go down the case. You mentioned you worked on the loading gate and it’s spring. Make sure the screw is tight as the carrier may not work.

It could also be the lever.

Or it could be the carrier dog.
 
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Well it's 156 bucks for a carrier,big loop lever and a magazine fallower. But idk how much fitting it will require. And if I did mess up the gun with the "polish" job I'd prefer not to fit them myself. I fix equipment for a living not fire arms. I don't know of any reputable gun Smith's near me (near Albany NY).
 
Concur with John. I need to see it to fix it.

Are the cartridges factory loaded. If too short they won’t work reliably. They must be full length sized and crimped to ensure the bullet doesn’t go down the case. You mentioned you worked on the loading gate and it’s spring. Make sure the screw is tight as the carrier may not work.

It could also be the lever.

Or it could be the carrier dog.
They are federal fusions 150gr factory ammo
 
I'm certainly not going to tell you to buy $150-$160 worth of parts based on what I think is wrong with the gun. Add to that the fact that I have no idea what, if any, fitting is required for the install.

Wish I could help you with a gunsmith recommend in your area but I don't know of anyone close to you.

This guy used to have a pretty good reputation. I'm not saying he doesn't now, just that I don't have current information on him.
http://www.clementscustomguns.com/marlinrifles.html
 
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