M 1917 .30, BAM, any words of wisdom?

Don't eat that yellow snow, you fool!

Some Words of Wisdom ... all that I can provide because your post just leaves me scratching my head..

Have you tried lead in the 1917?

For 30-06 in a 1903, i used Lyman 173gr with IMR 4895. Lyman "M" die to open the fl sized case mouth.

The orginal barrel was not as accurare as a new replacement GI barrel. At the time, the new gov surplus barrels were $ 25. My gunsmith headspace it for $5. The good old days.

I have been loading a 165gr coated cast bullet from Missouri Bullets that is meant for the 30-30. It works fine in the 30-06 and I'm using H4895.

Dunno, kind of counter-intuitive. The Cal..30 Model of 1903 was a round-nose 200gr round; but that was replaced bu Cal..30 Model of 1906 (later called M2 Ball) which used a jacketed spitzer bullet. And, that cal..30-06 was what the M1917 was designed around. Sort of. The original Pattern 1913 brit rifles were built for the 7x60 (.276enfield) cartridge, so were way over-built for .303 fodder. The 1917 was a product improvement on the 1913, so it's a hugely sturdy action.

I can see the safety aspects of putting lead on steel--incredibly true for pistol silhouette--but not something I was much of in my admittedly brief time in rifle silhouette. But, I guess my question winds up being why lead when FMJ will work (and with fewer issues for bore cleaning)..

Unless this is a rules things for organized shooting, perhaps?

Can't shed much light on shooting cast in the M1917, but am very intrigued by "BAM". Tell us more. I do have some experience shooting cast in the vintage Swiss straight pulls, both M96 and Kar 31, Unique and the discontinued IMR 4759 were my huckleberry with 165ish MB cast "30-30" bullets. Got fine accuracy to 100 or so, rivaling jacketed bullets using (interpolated) Lyman .308 data. Have also used these rifles (jacketed) and the Finnish M39 and Swedish M96 in 200 yard CMP Vintage bolt competitions.

Sounds interesting. I'll have to look around here to see if theres any around here. I need an excuse to start shooting my milsurps again. Just hammering away off the bench isn't as fun these days with my bad shoulders.

Sounds like a lot of fun. A local club ran a "roaring 20's" match one time. Any firearm in series production prior to 1930 was allowed regardless of actual production date, and the size of the targets and ranges (NRA big bore IHMSA targets and 12" gongs to 300 yards) kept the soft shooting cowboy loads out of it. I shot my Savage M99 .300, a borrowed Win M12 and a Luger. It was a lot of fun, unfortunately very hot, humid weather suppressed the turnout and no further matches were held. Took a solid hit with choked buckshot to knock over the IHMSA pig at 50 yards.

Nominal groove diameter of 1917 is .310". Cast and lubrisize accordingly.

CapnMac said:

Dunno, kind of counter-intuitive. The Cal..30 Model of 1903 was a round-nose 200gr round; but that was replaced bu Cal..30 Model of 1906 (later called M2 Ball) which used a jacketed spitzer bullet. And, that cal..30-06 was what the M1917 was designed around. Sort of. The original Pattern 1913 brit rifles were built for the 7x60 (.276enfield) cartridge, so were way over-built for .303 fodder. The 1917 was a product improvement on the 1913, so it's a hugely sturdy action.

I can see the safety aspects of putting lead on steel--incredibly true for pistol silhouette--but not something I was much of in my admittedly brief time in rifle silhouette. But, I guess my question winds up being why lead when FMJ will work (and with fewer issues for bore cleaning)..

Unless this is a rules things for organized shooting, perhaps?

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Hello Captain,

Here's several answers for your question and they relate to most all military surplus rifles, particularly bolt action rifles.

1. Most of those rifles are old, many with a good bit of bore wear. Casting and using lead bullets allows one to match the actual size of the rifle's bore, thereby increasing accuracy.
2. Using lead bullets also allows one to get the correct weight bullet for the twist of the barrel. For example: Most .308 caliber US milsurp rifles are 1:10 twist, which is better suited for heavier grain bullets in the 168-200 grain range. Milsurp 147 grain, 150 grain or other weights close to M2 ball were selected during WWII to reduce the expenditure of raw materials aka lead, which is the center of a FMJ bullet back then and in most today.
3. Using lead, particularly lead of the correct hardness, significantly reduces/almost eliminates additional wear on a rifle's barrel which often times has had many, many rounds fired through it, thereby extending the life of and preserving the original military barrels for future generations who might want to enjoy them.
4. Casting lead allows many different bullet configurations to be selected, many of whom are much better for hunting purposes.
5. FMJ bullets, on the other hand, are very hard on an old barrel and greatly increase the wear while greatly reducing the service life of the old barrels.
6. Depending on the knowledge of the caster and reloader, one can achieve loads very close to the same velocity as the original FMJ rounds.

So basically, way more positives than negatives and one thing I did not mention. Cast lead bullets are way cheaper than FMJ factory bullets.

I hope this answers your questions.

Best Regards,

Dave

Lafitte said:

I have jumped off into BAM, shooting lead in a 1917 Enfield 30/06. All words of wisdom are appreciated.
Thanks,
Lafitte

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Lafitte,

While this is a very fine forum, there are many more expert casters and reloaders on the Cast Boolits forum. There are others on other cast bullet focused forums, but I suggest starting there if you're wanting to shoot lead in a milsurp. They have a section devoted to that very thing.

Best Regards,

Dave

I found IMR4227, univeral, 700x, and titewad to be very good with cast bullets.
I would recommend looking into Berry's 30-30 bullets. They are accurate in both of my Krag rifles using bluedot.
Castboolit forum has a ton of good info on this.

Just a note, I have both and I feel the 1917 is a better rifle than the 1903. You will do fine with it.

I've been shooting my M1917 in the CMP Vintage Military matches for the past several years. It's a great rifle. I didn't research the wild bunch matches so don't know if the following applies or not.

I've been shooting a slightly reduced load with a variety of 150 grain jacketed bullets. Hornady Amaxes, SST's, and HPBT's, and some M2 ball pull downs mainly. CMP matches are 200 yds, and my loads are very capable of cleaning the SR target. And have on a couple occasions.

In accordance with allowable CMP rules I've filled the battle sight aperture with JB Weld and drilled it out to 0.052" (if I remember correctly). I got some higher Pattern 14 Enfield front sight blades from Springfield Sporters and found one that I can use with a 6 o'clock hold with my altered battle sight aperature. A fellow shooter who knows how did a trigger job to take out the creep and reduce the pull to about 4 #.

She's a shooter!

I think the OP said cast bullets are required for the competition he is participating in.

The 1917 is a tank compared to a Springfield 1903. It is well suited to shooting .30-06 M2 Ball or lead as you please. One factor might be though how rough the barrel is for shooting lead.

As far as the original bore size, Hatcher claims it is .308, others claim .310 or .311. I have a worn pitted Eddystone that is .3095 or so using a bore plug gage, a less worn Winchester barrel @.309, and a WWII era High Standard barrel @ .308 using the same gage.

What is not in dispute is that original 1917 rifle barrels were five groove just like the British P14. WWII vintage replacement barrels are nominally .308 and 4 groove (High Standard) and 2 groove (Johnson Automatics).

Here is an old THR thread discussing it: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/eddystone-model-of-1917-barrel-question.321008/

I ended up mounting a WWII vintage High Standard barrel (Johnson Automatics made some too) rather than the well worn 11/18 Eddystone (mentioned above) that came with the receiver just in cases that I wanted to shoot lead. Oddly, no trouble removing the barrel and no cracks in the receiver probably because both were soaked in cosmolene into the barrel threads even.

Lafitte said:

I'll be shooting cast bullets most of the time but jacketed bullets are used at some matches.

Lafitte

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In that case I have had very good results with a 168gr match bullet from Sierra and Hornady. I use H4350 and CCI-200 primers and that combination produces very accurate ammo in my rifles.I

If you want to use a lighter bullet to with a Sierra 150gr or 155gr MatchKing bullet over Varget or IMR-4064. They offer two 155gr MatchKing bullets, one is a Palma Match bullet. There is probably no advantage to using the Palma Match bullet at the distances you are shooting but if the price is right...

In the case of Jacketed loads, you'll find any "garand safe" loads to be accurate and enjoyable. No need to go full house max. 46 gr of 4895, IMR4064 under a 150-168 gr bullet. You can shoot match bullets if your accuracy needs dictate, but I've been able to get 2"x8 shot groups from my M1 and better from my M1917 scoped sporter (no, I didn't chop it, probably done in the 1930's judging by the scope mount that was on it) with 150 Sierra pro hunter and 47gr IMR4064. Also good results with the Hornady 150 FMJBT but the Sierra gets the edge by a nose. To be fair, the M1 is well put together with a NOS barrel and NM front sight and OP Rod.