Custom Rifles

z7 said:

I would look at what I want the rifle to do. what is the purpose of the rifle?

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Yes.

Then, I would say the next step is to pick a gunsmith that has an established reputation for building what your looking for. Have a conversation with him first and let him help you with spec'ing it out.

I only had 2 criteria established when I had my first conversation. I wanted it chambered in .308 and I wanted the ARC Mausingfield action. He validated the research I had done on the action (he's a fan of it too) and guided the rest of the component selection from there, including the decision on which scope to get.

You can obviously go into that discussion with a full laundry list of what you think you want, but keep an open mind. He may want to talk you out of something, and for good reasons. After all, you are paying for his knowledge and skill, so you may as well get your money's worth.

P.S. @z7 also helped in making my mind up on the Mausingfield as he already had one

I can’t wait to see that hunting rig nature boy do tell use what caliber On that fn action???

I've shot some very nice custom rifles, of the long range variety, such as Surgeon rifles, Seekins, etc. I have a M24 and a Larue OBR (I don't consider these "true customs", since there are thousands of them and they build them every day), and a M700 police marksman that has been customized. The thing is, there are some really great rifles out there off the shelf nowadays from all of the major manufacturers that offer amazing performance at a reasonable price, even if they are "cookie cutter" rifles.

Nature Boy said:

P.S. @z7 also helped in making my mind up on the Mausingfield as he already had one

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And it sure is pretty

I have a bias, I love the philosophy behind American rifle company, I think they rock

z7 said:

I have a bias, I love the philosophy behind American rifle company, I think they rock

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Me too. Their scope rings are top notch as well

horsemen61 said:

I can’t wait to see that hunting rig nature boy do tell use what caliber On that fn action???

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Sticking with .308

FNchester action trued up
Proof Research carbon fiber barrel, Sendero contour 1:10, 24”
McMillan Game Warden stock with adjustable cheek piece. Pillar bedded

And probably a Swarovski Z6i, model TBD

Hoping to have it in time for hunting season this year but McMillan may be the hang up. I ordered the stock in April and it might be ready end of October.....or later

I had three custom rifles with Krieger barrels that were great shooters but I sold them and bought factory rifles from Accuracy International with zero regrets. I'd put those AIs up against any equivalent custom rifle, particularly if the ability of that rifle to function properly could mean the difference between life or death. I have one custom hunting rifle that started out as a high end factory rifle that always shot great but now it's everything I could want it to be. Accuracy and precision are almost a given these days, but it's how, when and under what conditions that you can deliver that accuracy and precision that makes all the difference. Great rifles work under virtually any conditions all of the time, they shoot small groups all of the time, they feed, fire, extract and eject all of the time. If you lose your sight picture running the bolt you don't have a good rifle. If you're one of those that says your 5-shot or 10-shot group is always worse than your 3-shot group you either need better equipment (high end factory or custom) or you don't shoot enough.

Steve,

That sounds like a great start to an awesome rifle.

I narrowed my gunsmith choices down to 3

Long Rifles Inc
Patriot Valley Arms
Short Action Customs

Alll of those are top notch but I ended up with SAC and have been very happy

Another thing about a custom project is that when you build to your preferences, you build to YOUR budget.

Gunmakers build to a price point.
On a custom, it's not necessary to go with cheaper components to sell to a mass audience, since the gun isn't being built to sell at a certain price level.

You want a better stock, you can get it.
You want a certain barrel or stock configuration that nobody offers in factory form, you can get it.

YOU design YOUR rifle for YOU.

I've worked with Italian Sharps repros, and they shoot well.
I bought a Shiloh Sharps because the build is better, and I could order exactly the model & configuration I wanted on MY rifle.

It depends entirely on what you want to spend, whether you're happ y with a factory configuration, and what level of quality you want to own.
Denis

Accuracy is easy. But run them hard in the wind and dust, and see who trips first, a Ruger American or a Surgeon 591.

For glass, if you want lightweight, look at the high end Leupold (mk5 or mk6 line), vortex amg, and some of the nightforce models, there are many others, but high end scopes worthy of being placed on a custom rifle get heavy quick. It all depends on desired magnification

Everyone has criteria specific to themselves I suppose. In calibers .277 and larger I’m happy with sub-moa even if it’s just barely sub-moa. Anything smaller I happy with .5-.75. I strictly hunt.

I also prefer wood with an oiled finish and the wood doesn’t need to be fancy. I want a blind magazine or hinged floorplate, no DBM for me. Also no tiny ejection port. Semi custom will do just fine for me.

Sure

I ended up narrowing it down to the 3 smiths mentioned above because they all had experience building rifles off the Mausingfield action.

They’re all well known so there was a lot to read in the way of reviews. I didn’t find a single negative comment on any of them. I also corresponded with a few customers to get their feedback

Lastly, I talked to each smith about what I was wanting. In the end, it simply came down to SAC having the best responsiveness and I was ready to get the ball rolling. They also had everything needed in stock so it cut the lead time down a lot.

Honestly, I don’t think I (or you) could go wrong with any of the three.

Here’s an example of factory vs. custom

10 shots at 500 yards with my factory FN SPR .308 and Leupold Mk4


20 shots at 500 yards with my custom .308 Mausingfield, Bartlein barrel Manners stock and Kahles 624 scope


If you guys know of a factory rifle that will hold 20 shots at 500 yards at 4” and 0.78 MOA quit keeping it a secret and let us all know!

In all seriousness, what a custom rifle does is remove it from the variables (somewhat) and let you focus more on improving your shooting skills

I apologize if I’m sounding like a salesman, just pointing out what I’m seeing in my experience. I’m just one guy

If you build a custom rifle you control everything about it, the cost, caliber, action, etc. It doesn't have to be a Panda action in a custom stock bench rifle. It can be a 7 pound wood stock 30/06 if that is what you want. Almost every rifle I own is "custom" now. I like accurate rifles, I love Bartlein, Hart, Shilen etc. barrels. I like pillar bedding and 1 pound triggers. I like running a patch down any custom barrel. Ask anyone that uses one, look at one with a borescope. Barrels are important to anyone that really wants an accurate rifle. Sure there are factory rifles that are accurate, but when you get your action trued and a barrel installed correctly it becomes a shooter with almost any load. Get what you want, even if it is just a new barrel and a bedding job. You can build one from scratch, or modify your old one. your choice. Use a reputable smith, there are a lot of smiths that work on guns, just like mechanics. They all can't build race cars, but some can.

While the action and overall aesthetics of a rifle are in the eye of the beholder, I have always found that good glass is what really makes the determining factor. That and the nut behind the butt plate. I have met guys with what appeared to be worn out Garands that where actually tack drivers and others that where new in the box looking that couldn't hit broad side of barn.

Nature Boy said:

Here’s an example of factory vs. custom

10 shots at 500 yards with my factory FN SPR .308 and Leupold Mk4
View attachment 801946

20 shots at 500 yards with my custom .308 Mausingfield, Bartlein barrel Manners stock and Kahles 624 scope
View attachment 801947

If you guys know of a factory rifle that will hold 20 shots at 500 yards at 4” and 0.78 MOA quit keeping it a secret and let us all know!

In all seriousness, what a custom rifle does is remove it from the variables (somewhat) and let you focus more on improving your shooting skills

I apologize if I’m sounding like a salesman, just pointing out what I’m seeing in my experience. I’m just one guy

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Oh I’ll bet an Accuracy International, Desert Tech SRS, or SAKO TRG would give equal results to your custom. However at some point a line has to be drawn with “factory” rifles that cost as much as custom rifles, are made like custom rifles, use identical components (AI barrels are made by Bartlein) to custom rifles, and are made by factory gunsmiths that are trained basically as custom rifle builders. Are they really factory production guns at that point? I guess technically yes, but in practice not really in the sense of a mass produced rack grade rifle.

That is one fine shooting .308 by the way. Jealous.

I thought they were now? Watched a video of the factory and the guy giving the tour said they were running Bartleins.

Who else is making them?

Coal Dragger said:

Oh I’ll bet an Accuracy International, Desert Tech SRS, or SAKO TRG would give equal results to your custom. However at some point a line has to be drawn with “factory” rifles that cost as much as custom rifles, are made like custom rifles, use identical components (AI barrels are made by Bartlein) to custom rifles, and are made by factory gunsmiths that are trained basically as custom rifle builders.

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Those are good examples. I guess you could also consider some factory rifle companies run customizing services inside thier operations, like Remington’s Custom Shop. I think Savage has something similar as well.

Is the product from those still a “factory rifle”? I guess you could say they are

Speaking of the Custom Shops once maintained by the major manufacturers, they once turned out some very nice special-order work. Though they were considered prohibitively expensive at the time, it has often turned out to be a good investment, with collectors now paying top prices for original factory Custom Shop pieces, especially the higher grades. Attached are photos of three samples from Remington's Custom shop: a couple of M-700 with select wood and checkering, and a M-7 with special order Mannlicher style stock. Also a shot of a spectacular left hand M-70 built by the Winchester Custom Shop for my southpaw neighbor.

I have ventured into the custome realm twice. Both times for wildcat calibers I could get no other way. Both were for hunting, too.
My 6.5-.300 WSM was built on a Remington 700 action by a local gunsmith (now retired). The action was squared, trued and the lugs lapped. The barrel was a short chambered, 1:8.5 " twist, 24", medium sporting contour, chrome-moly steel from Montana Rifleman (now Montana Rifle Co.). I speced a Timney trigger, the throat length so that 140 grain Sierra bullets could be seated out to the lands and still used the whole case neck, bead blasted finish, recessed target crown and specified pillar and glass bedding into a Classic Remington walnut stock I provided, just because I had one and loved it! The rig was topped off with Warne rings and bases and a Leupold 3x1 3.5-10x50.

The fun part was working up loads for it.
The Remington would just barely out shoot my Tikka T3 .270 Winchester at 500 meters. Don't get me wrong. The Remington is no slouch. The Tikka shoots five 140 grain Bergers into a 2-3/4" group at 500 meters. It (the Tikka) is also my Hunter Class Metallic Silhouette rifle with a 6.5-20x50 Vortex VIper in Vortex rings.

A rifle with a 10x scope even slightly out performing a rifle with a 20x scope? Pretty significant in my book.
A fun project and very rewarding. IMHO, every firearms enthusiast should do a similar project just for the pure enjoyment of it.