T/C Renegade Rifle

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Calm down boys, we're all here for the same reasons. If you like it, use it, if not get away from it. I don't like inline zip guns myself, but I ain't gonna tell you not to shoot it and enjoy it. Same goes for traditional guns, they don't have to look exactly like an original honest to goodness historically correct piece to be shot and enjoyed.
 
Oh, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings because I said something wasn't authentic. I own TC guns. All I said was their Hawken doesn't look like one. Never said anything wrong with it, only it would have been easy to make it look a little more like what they said it was. Back in the 70s I bought their Hawken caplock, then a flintlock, and a Patriot pistol. I sold or gave away all the TCers when I learned to make my own guns. Ten years ago I bought a Renegade and gave it to my granddaughter. I don't shoot inlines, but I sure don't tell someone to take a hike because they shoot or like different style MLers than what I like. I'd like to thank you for calling me a purist - makes it sound like I know what I'm talking about. When I'm over to shotgun three times a week everyone tells me I don't know sh!!.
 
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if you're going to say something is a replica, then make it a replica. Pietta and Uberita do it with their revolvers other than the 36's being a bit larger than they should.

Not wishing to hijack this thread but, Paul, I must disagree with you. I own 7 Pietta 1851 Navy .36 type pistols and all of them are of accurate frame size (Navy 2nd Model squareback TG, 2 ea Navy 3rd/4th Model round TG, L&R, R&A, S&G, and G&G) with 7.5" barrels. Parts are interchangeable. The only one Pietta makes that is larger than it should be is their version of the Pocket Navy .36 for which they use their 1851 Navy frame instead of a Pocket sized frame, the water table is not cut, and the cylinder is not rebated. It is basically what could be termed these days as a "sheriff" model because of the shorter barrel.

Insofar as historically "accurate" goes, they could attempt to conceal their manufacture date codes, proof marks, and the Pietta "billboards" on the barrels as Uberti tries to do.

I'm outta here, sir, and I apologize for butting in.

Jim
 
He might have been referring to the Remington navies which both companies make more than a bit larger than they should be.
 
C’mon guys. Its all good. Each of us have and are intitled to our opinions. And I agree with Paul and Loyalist Dave that TC guns are not very good Hawken copies. But they got people interested in shooting BP and that is always a very good thing. Good copies or not they are well built rifles. You can’t take that away from them.

TC guns sold for a price that most would risk the fare to give it a try. If the entry fee were several hundred dollars most would have passed and never tried. And BP guns were cheap a couple of decades ago. I can’t for the life of me figure out why a Traditions Springfield Hawken kit cost around $300 dollars. I bought mine for $105 from Bass Pro around 1999. The finished rifle was only a$135! And it’s not even remotely close to a traditional rifle and is a simple entry model. But it shoots as good as any BP rifle I have ever shot. And do I care if it isn’t modeled after some well known gun? Nope.

When I bought my first BP rifle, a Cabelas Hawken, I paid around $175 for it. And that was a factory built gun not a kit. A TC Hawken was a little more. A GGRW Hawken from Mountain State Muzzleloading was over a $1,0000 IIRC. I couldn’t afford that. The Cabelas rifle let me try BP on a budget. Without that very affordable gun I doubt I would be a BP shooter today. And I never considered that it was not an accurate Hawken copy. It never crossed my mind.
 
I bought a Renegade barrel and it dropped right into my Hawken stock. Now I have a Hawken carbine that will throw Great Plains bullets, and it's going elk hunting with me in November. Everyone I know who owns a Renegade is well pleased with it. I love my Hawken and will never part with it, but if I had it to do all over again and knew what I know now, I might just pick the Renegade.

ETA-- Weighing in on the TC Hawken vs. "real" Hawken... No, TC's product doesn't look a thing like the rifles produced by the Hawken brothers, and Warren Center has stated as much on numerous occasions. (For the record, I found that hook on the trigger guard to be annoying as well, and cut it off). It wasn't intended to be a repro, just a reliable hunting arm. Lyman made a real effort to put an affordable Hawken-like gun on the market, and did a pretty good job of it with the Great Plains Rifle. What's funny is that many of the Italian rifles were patterned after the TC guns instead of authentic period firearms. The were also solid, dependable working guns, if lacking in refinement.

With regard to period use of Hawken rifles, you need to bear in mind that they were high-end firearms and not affordable for most working stiffs. They were kind of the Weatherby of their day; top of the line, not rare, but not thick on the ground because of their price. Plenty of makers were putting out perfectly adequate rifles for far less money.
 
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The .54 TC Hawken has a 1" barrel, and the Renegade in all three standard calibers are 1" as well; the Hawken in .45 and .50 are 15/16".
 
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Please, I have nothing against TC's guns - I've owned four of them in the past. They shoot great; all I said was they're not historically correct and I'm sorry I did that. Didn't mean to cause quite a ruckest. Jim, I know nothing about Colts, I'm a Remington man. The Remington .36 Navies are built on the Army frame which is much too big for that gun. But I guess that's modern bean counter thinking about saving a dime and using the same frame. I could care less about the crap put on the side of a barrel, other than it's unnecessary. There is a article in MuzzleBlast about getting a gun kit and how the author changed some things on it to make them look better. Kind of interesting as the article points out about TC filling a void and getting people to start shooting muzzleloaders even though they weren't historically correct. Much like this thread.
 
Hey Paul, when you mentioned shotgun stuff earlier in this thread, are you a trap shooter? It sounds like you go 2 to 3 times a week?
 
Jim, I know nothing about Colts, I'm a Remington man. The Remington .36 Navies are built on the Army frame which is much too big for that gun. But I guess that's modern bean counter thinking about saving a dime and using the same frame. I could care less about the crap put on the side of a barrel, other than it's unnecessary.

Paul, I apologize to you. My brain only thinks 1851 Navies. You are very correct about the replica Remington pistols, and I ashamed that I did not think of that. I try to keep myself apprised of that stuff but at 66 I really don't think of everything and other folks' wants. My Mom has Alzheimer's and I can see that developing in me. But, enough of that.

I have to go and make dinner. You have a very good night, sir.

Regards,

Jim
 
No apologize necessary. Many times because I'm only thinking of Remingtons I screw up. Jack, I shoot more 5-stand, SCs, a little skeet and trap. Because I run the shotgun venue, I just got shotgun to buy a doubles trap machine. I don't think it'll get used much but 4 or 5 guys claimed they'd shoot it all the time. Back in the 70s I use to shoot ATA, but with kids and a wife who found out how much I was spending, I quit and went to muzzleloaders and long bows. I shot mostly pistol at Friendship - I had a permanent camping spot just off to the right and in front of the pistol sign up booth and to the left of the trap range. We'd shoot pistol all day, and at night we'd shoot trap under the lights. Two or three of us would shoot trap with a sidehammer I made to be the same dimensions as my BT-99. I started going down there with the brother in-law and my 6 year old son. He was our coke runner. We'd give him a dollar for a 75 cent cup of coke, he'd save us from stop shooting and make some spending money. He got to be about 10 and started shooting pistol with us. He'd stand next to me on the pistol line so I could keep a eye on him. We had lots of fun back then.
 
Thanks Paul, I kinda felt that trap shooter vibe pretty hard on that post. Both my brother and step dad were real big time trap shooters for years, dad placed 4th in the national's before he got hurt and had to really scale it back. I never got into it myself but did shoot a few rounds with both modern and muzzleloader shotgun. Never tried it with a rocklock, may have to once I get outta Nevada and back to Arizona.
 
Back 10 years or so I was shooting a Trade gun match with my matchlock and got 2 out of 4 claybirds. Felt kind proud of that. Regular trap with a muzzleloader - the problem is only getting to load one or two shots, shot, then go back and reload again. You never get a rhythm like in regular trap. It's like you're starting all over again every time you go back to shoot. Usually a winning score is in the mid 90s out of a 100. I believe a smooth bore is made to drop in a Renegade. That would make a fine gun for single shot events. Clubs big in the BP shotgun shooting hold regular skeet where a double is needed or just singles where a single shot style of gun can be used. It could also be used for trap shooting. I know a lot of the guys on here don't shoot events, but I find it lots of fun to associate with other muzzleloaders. The shooting part is just for fun if you shoot just against yourself for score. Sooner or latter you'll win something. Ya, I try to beat the others, but if I don't I still had fun.
 
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