6.5 has made obsolete my rifles

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someguy2800 said:
I wanted one at the time but they didn't chamber the gun I wanted in it.
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There haven't been many rifles so-chambered at all. What, the 700, the Model 7, Browning A-Bolt and a couple others?

I think a combination of inept marketing and poor timing is why it never caught on. The short action craze was in it's infancy in the 1990s, .264 caliber was one that had a bit of a cult following, but the bigger & badder magnums were still getting all the press (was right around then the 7 STW became a commercial offering). Remington has a habit of introducing great cartridges at the wrong time, or making some blunder in the platform firing them that hinders their success. 5mm mag, .244/6mm, 6.5mm mag, .280/7mm exp., 8mm mag, .350 mag, .416 mag, the list goes on
 
it seems they are hyping a 6.5 cartridge ad nauseam.
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You are watching a show that exists because people pay for advertising. “New and improved” has been a marketing term for longer than you have been alive.

If the rounds they are hyping had been around for 100+ years and the 30-06 was invented this year, you’d be watching shows about it.

As others have pointed out there are old 6.5 rounds too with as good or better performance but “old” isn’t a popular marketing term.
 
The 6.5 CM lives up to the hype. It is about the perfect balance of bullet weight, velocity, recoil and accuracy to hunt anything in North America as well as being suitable for target shooting out to a mile. This photo explains why.

And for the record, the 260 and 6.5X55 are capable of doing exactly the same thing as 6.5 CM. But the 6.5 CM does it with factory rifles and loads. In order to make the others work requires hand loads that are out of spec., and custom rifles. The 6.5X55 was designed around 160 gr RN military ammo @ 51,000 PSI. The 260 was designed around 120 gr deer hunting bullets. In order to make either work with modern high BC bullets requires tweaking of both loads and rifles.

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The bullet on the left is a 143gr 6.5. Next in line is a 150gr 308, 178gr 308, and 200gr 308.

Compared to the 150 gr 308 I use 5 gr more powder with a 7 gr heavier bullet that leaves the muzzle 150 fps faster resulting in 25% more recoil. The longer 6.5 bullet out penetrates any game animal at any range. Trajectory is virtually the same for 400 yards, but beyond that the 6.5 wins. At only 200 yards the 6.5 passes the 308 in energy. At 800 yards the 6.5 has about the same energy numbers as the 308 has at 500. Beyond that it isn't close

If we move up to the 178/180 gr 308 loads we see a more even matchup. At that bullet weight 308 will now match 6.5 in penetration. The 308 with the heavier bullet has an energy advantage at the muzzle, but the 6.5 catches up within 300 yards and both have enough energy and penetration for elk. But the 308/180/@ 2650 now has significantly more recoil than the 6.5/140 @ 2700. For zero gain in performance. And beyond 500, it isn't close.

It is only when we move up to the 200 gr bullets that 308 has any advantage over the 6.5. And you really need to be firing them from a 30-06 or 300 WM. At 308 speeds energy and penetration are better. But now trajectory and recoil become serious concerns.

Considering that most 308 shooters use 150-165 gr bullets a 6.5 with 140's is an improvement.
 
^^^^^^^
The 6.5 CM lives up to the hype. It is about the perfect balance of bullet weight, velocity, recoil and accuracy to hunt anything in North America as well as being suitable for target shooting out to a mile. This photo explains why.

And for the record, the 260 and 6.5X55 are capable of doing exactly the same thing as 6.5 CM. But the 6.5 CM does it with factory rifles and loads. In order to make the others work requires hand loads that are out of spec., and custom rifles. The 6.5X55 was designed around 160 gr RN military ammo @ 51,000 PSI. The 260 was designed around 120 gr deer hunting bullets. In order to make either work with modern high BC bullets requires tweaking of both loads and rifles.

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The bullet on the left is a 143gr 6.5. Next in line is a 150gr 308, 178gr 308, and 200gr 308.

Compared to the 150 gr 308 I use 5 gr more powder with a 7 gr heavier bullet that leaves the muzzle 150 fps faster resulting in 25% more recoil. The longer 6.5 bullet out penetrates any game animal at any range. Trajectory is virtually the same for 400 yards, but beyond that the 6.5 wins. At only 200 yards the 6.5 passes the 308 in energy. At 800 yards the 6.5 has about the same energy numbers as the 308 has at 500. Beyond that it isn't close

If we move up to the 178/180 gr 308 loads we see a more even matchup. At that bullet weight 308 will now match 6.5 in penetration. The 308 with the heavier bullet has an energy advantage at the muzzle, but the 6.5 catches up within 300 yards and both have enough energy and penetration for elk. But the 308/180/@ 2650 now has significantly more recoil than the 6.5/140 @ 2700. For zero gain in performance. And beyond 500, it isn't close.

It is only when we move up to the 200 gr bullets that 308 has any advantage over the 6.5. And you really need to be firing them from a 30-06 or 300 WM. At 308 speeds energy and penetration are better. But now trajectory and recoil become serious concerns.

Considering that most 308 shooters use 150-165 gr bullets a 6.5 with 140's is an improvement.
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On paper this all sounds theoretically super duper but in reality the 6.5 CM is in the middle of a pack of similar cartridges that all do about the same thing...

The longer 6.5 bullet out penetrates any game animal at any range.
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If penetration was all that mattered we would all be shooting FMJ bullets but in practice there are lots of variables involved. Different bullets expand differently and then what caliber they started out as becomes less significant. The bones the bullet strikes on the way through also play a big part in how the bullet will perform. The bullet size, weight and rate of expansion all play a role in the transmission of hydro static shock. The bullets energy numbers while important also don't tell the whole story because if they did then big, heavy, comparatively slow bullets, which we know from experience tend to kill game very well, wouldn't be very effective. So, when taking all of this into consideration splitting hairs over a few thousandths of an inch in bullet diameter or a few grains in bullet weight is largely minutia in my opinion...
 
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MachIVshooter said:
It did, but was called the .260 Remington.
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Is it me or is Remington like a really bad adoption agency for wildcats?
Yeah, we totally have folks that will adopt you....... just got make you a little more presentable...oh...not working?...oh well.......

I really wanted a .260 when they were first released. A friend of mine brought one to our farm, It was a model 7 if i remember correctly, I shot it once and was hooked.
He said he couldnt get decent accuracy with the 140s, but it shot ok with the 120s. Im pretty sure he had an early slow twist gun.

Honestly I think the CM is a better design than the .260, unless your using a longer short action, but again thats mostly perception.
 
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The physics behind sectional density and long bullets is nothing new. 6.5x55 is 125 years old and a hell of a cartridge.

The only reason I don't have a 6.5mm Creedmore yet is I've been waiting to see how popular it becomes vs the .260 Rem.

Mike

PS. I own 2 6.5x55 rifles, BTW. The Swede was my late wife's and I built one on a Savage Action. Current wife loves auto pistols not rifles or revolvers.
 
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Sniper66 said:
Maybe just need an excuse to buy another rifle?
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Yes! No doubt everyone here has a gun, more likely several, that can do anything they need to get done. The fun is in coming up with a reason to buy another. I decided to find a nice deer rifle for my daughter. My old Remington 7400 .243 has the barrel shot out and is actually getting rebored for .338 Federal so that option was out. She's quite small and who knows, she might not ever go hunting but that's irrelevant. I'm getting older so the same criteria fit me too. :D Low recoil, lightweight and whitetail deer capable out to 300 yards. Lightweight and low recoil points to an AR-15. 300 yards is pushing it for 300 BO so it became a tossup between a 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. I went with a Grendel mainly because of the cheap Wolf plinker option. So far I'm very pleased with it. One of my sons took a deer with it last year and it performed very well. So well that he just put one together for himself for this year. Anyway it's all just fun and as hobbies go it's a lot cheaper than cars and extra women. I tell my boys how lucky they are to have so many options available today. Now on to the next project.
 
I understand the O/P's pain. No one likes to tell their old favorite firearms that they are obsolete and due for retirement because a newer prettier rifle/cartridge comes along.
 
LoonWulf said:
Is it me or is Remington like a really bad adoption agency for wildcats?
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In big green's defense, they've also picked up more wildcats than any other manufacturer; bound to be commercial failures. Some are ahead of their time (5mm mag, .260, 6.5mm mag), some are a little too late, show up when a trend is winding down (7mm RUM), some get overshadowed by similar offerings that popular gunwriters vaunt (.270 win vs. .280 rem), some just never pick up a following simply because people don't like the nomenclature (8mm mag). We can find a reason for just about every flop, and most of those reasons have nothing to do with the ballistic performance of the round itself.

On the other hand, some of the most popular cartridges ever also bear the Remington name. I'd bet over 1,000 rounds of .223 are fired to every other .22 caliber centerfire in this country. .44 Rem Mag is one of the most popular handgun cartridges outside of the service pistol class. .25-06 and 7mm Rem Mag are offered in numerous models by just about every rifle manufacturer, and I can't think of an ammo company that doesn't support them.
 
MachIVshooter said:
In big green's defense, they've also picked up more wildcats than any other manufacturer; bound to be commercial failures. Some are ahead of their time (5mm mag, .260, 6.5mm mag), some are a little too late, show up when a trend is winding down (7mm RUM), some get overshadowed by similar offerings that popular gunwriters vaunt (.270 win vs. .280 rem), some just never pick up a following simply because people don't like the nomenclature (8mm mag). We can find a reason for just about every flop, and most of those reasons have nothing to do with the ballistic performance of the round itself.

On the other hand, some of the most popular cartridges ever also bear the Remington name. I'd bet over 1,000 rounds of .223 are fired to every other .22 caliber centerfire in this country. .44 Rem Mag is one of the most popular handgun cartridges outside of the service pistol class. .25-06 and 7mm Rem Mag are offered in numerous models by just about every rifle manufacturer, and I can't think of an ammo company that doesn't support them.
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fair points lol.....Honestly im still kinda upset at them for droping the 7stw in favor of the rum....
 
Lotsa guys are getting all frantic that their pet calibers are gonna be replaced. Last time i went to the LGS, there were dozens of calibers on the shelves.

I got my wife a 2018 Grand Cherokee. I’m sure the 2919’s are better, but it doesn’t mean I’m gonna trade hers in. Still works fine. But, if I were gonna buy a new car, it would be a new and improved model over something made forty years ago. Doesn’t mean a forty year old car won’t work, but new ones are better

The Creedmore is what gun makers have been trying to make for years. Moderate recoil and muzzle blast, good for short, medium, or long range. Accurate.

I have no idea why someone would buy anything larger than a .223 or smaller than a .308 and not consider a Creed. IMO, it makes everything in the .25-06, .270 range obsolete in a new rifle.

I just got a 7 Mag. If an identical Creedmore had been available at the same price, I would have gotten it instead
 
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When my 223, 243, 30-40, 303, 308, 30-06, 8mm Mauser, 375 H&H, 44 Mag, 444, or 45-70 stop putting game animals down, I’ll admit they’re obsolete, sell them, and buy a 6.5 CM. The 6.5 is “better” past 400 yards than ALL of my rifles cartridges. And when I can’t get within 400 yards of something I’m trying to harvest, I’ll watch them walk away and still claim victory for the day. Because I was out there and not at work. I don’t have to harvest to be successful. And the 6.5 simply won’t help me harvest.
 
The 6.5C is the most impressive cartridge for deer hunting today imo. If my 06 gives up the ghost or gets stolen one of these days, I will definitely give the 6.5 a try. But so long as the 06 keeps chugging along, then we'll be ongoing companions. Seems almost like a marriage.
 
I tried to buy into the heavy for caliber bullets and fast twist with the .223. It depends on your use of the gun, for banging steel and shooting long range it's OK. But, what about hunting? I'm a varmint hunter and would never shoot heavy target bullets on the farms where I hunt. Try to shoot light bullets out of that fast twist and see what happens. I much prefer the slower twists that are designed for a range of bullets. Everything has its limits, and you don't get something for nothing.
 
Dibbs said:
Next thing you know, they'll be hyping some new 38 caliber as the best thing since sliced bread.
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A new .38 caliber cartridge would be stupid... but if they came out with a high powered 9mm cartridge and made it rimmed so it was revolver friendly... oooh! .... now THAT would be cool!
 
They think the creedmoor has pushed .308 and other caliber out of the market.
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I hate gambling but I’ll bet $1 that I can go to the local feed store and find more 308 rounds than 6.5 Creedmoor, double or nothing, more 30-30 than it as well.

You don’t need to be a ballistic wonder to be popular. Lots of folks don’t have access to a range further than 100 yards, fewer to one over 300. Like having a car that could run 200 mph but you only get to drive it in bumper to bumper traffic.
 
Rifles and cartridges are basically old technology whether it's a 6.5 CM or a 30/06. As such, newer rifles and cartridges aren't dramatically better, just different. There really isn't anything all that new about the 6.5 CM... Make a 243, 25/06, 260, 270 or 280 bullet that's long and streamlined and put it in a rifle with a fast rate of twist and VOILA, another long range wonder gun. Or, just use a 100 plus year old 6.5x55...

For hunting none of this really matters, you don't need a 2 inch long bullet to hunt... Even if you're into really long range hunting, which I am not, the 6.5 CM while good at normal ranges still isn't anything special at really long range because it doesn't have enough energy, a 7 mag or 300 mag it isn't...
 
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DDDWho said:
I watch Wednesday Night at the Range on the Outdoor channel. Every week it seems they are hyping a 6.5 cartridge ad nauseam. Last night it was the 6.5 Grendel. Last week it was the Creedmoor. It seems this hyping has been going on for at least a couple of years. I'm beginning to think my old 30-30 will not kill a deer anymore or my .280 Rem. is no longer accurate to 300 yards.
The 6.5 may be an outstanding round but I'm not ready to sell off my inventory to find out. When something is hyped that much for so long I tend to shy away from it. This is also true of the 6.5
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What is the point of this post?

You aren't soliciting the opinions of other members. You aren't looking to discuss a topic or learn anything either from the look of it. Nor are you sharing your experience with a new firearm, or other related gear.

What it appears that you are doing is complaining about not liking something, and worse yet something you have no first hand experience with. Well that isn't exactly very useful to anyone, so why bother? No one is forcing you to buy or use something you don't like and don't want, and no one is going to force you to learn something new either.

I see a lot of this "quality" of post on here these days, they add no useful information to the knowledge base on this site and remind me (maybe unfairly) of an old man yelling at the kids to get off his lawn.
 
Bushpilot said:
Rifles and cartridges are basically old technology whether it's a 6.5 CM or a 30/06
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That's why my next purchase should actually be a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.....

Just to be told later it's being outshined by something in the 'Creedwatt' range...
o_O
 
jmorris said:
I hate gambling but I’ll bet $1 that I can go to the local feed store and find more 308 rounds than 6.5 Creedmoor, double or nothing, more 30-30 than it as well.

You don’t need to be a ballistic wonder to be popular. Lots of folks don’t have access to a range further than 100 yards, fewer to one over 300. Like having a car that could run 200 mph but you only get to drive it in bumper to bumper traffic.
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Hate to burst your bubble but 6.5 Creedmoor is not difficult to find at all where I am.

For those without access to long distance ranges that is inconvenient but doesn't detract from the ability of an accurate 6.5mm projectile to get work done at shorter ranges. As for me I have an 800 yard range 10 minutes from the house, so I can stretch a rifle's legs a bit.
 
Just to be told later it's being outshined by the something in the 'Creedwatt' range...
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Yeah, I’m going to hold out for the ‘Super D Duper Tactical Ultra Magnum BlackWatt Pterodactyl.
 
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