Old, poorly stored rimfire ammo — testing a premise.

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Danny Creasy

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In my post-apocalyptic series of novels (Slingshot 8, Slingshot 8: The Old World, and the soon to be released, Slingshot 8: Colony) the world as we know it died seven decades earlier. My survivors manufacture some ammunition, but the cost in barter is dear. When scavenged from closets, lockers, and drawers in the Old World, cartridges are a gift. In my series, I never discount the deleterious effects of time, temperature, and moisture on such found ammunition. That said, I recently had the opportunity to purchase a GI ammo can full of firearms related odds and ends. I made an offer, it was accepted, and I took the "treasure" home. About 2000 rounds of .22 long rifle ammunition was accompanied by a couple of hundred rounds of centerfire ammunition and a dozen detachable box magazines. I'll leave the latter for future adventures; the subject of yesterday's shooting and this post is the crusty rimfire ammunition.

I would not foul the barrels of my best rimfires with this stuff, but two old "simple as a brick" firearms would be none the worse for wear if judiciously cleaned following an outing with these scraps. I chose a 60s era three-screw Ruger Single Six revolver and the "bottom of the line" CZ 513 Basic bolt action rifle sporting a Weaver V-16 scope. The test site was a 50 yard lane at the Cypress Creek Indoor Range.

A mysterious, little, unmarked green box contained a loose mix of .22 LR rounds, forty-four to be exact. I chose to hang a target at ten yards, and offhanded, I fired seven cylinder-fulls plus two odd rounds at 3/4-inch dots. The first montage (below) pictures my first cylinder, second, and then the full target. All the cruddy rounds fired with audible and visual full power. A Spared Territory rabbit would probably fill my character's stew pot if engaged with one of these nubbins, as would a headshot assailant fill a grave. I must add that some of these corroded rounds required a little extra effort to seat in the cylinder's chambers, but they all pressed home and went bang.

Now, the rifle deserved a proper benchrest and fifty-yard target. I chose to fire three five-shot groups from each of the four different known-origin ammunitions. I was shooting for groups, so I did not adjust the windage or elevation turrets of the scope. A group's size was what mattered, not its distance from point-of-aim. The rounds from the faded (sometimes tattered and stained) boxes truly impressed me. Heck, the Federal Power-Flite boxes exhibited water damage. As might one of my ST citizens, the occasional, truly frosty-white bulleted cartridges were discarded in what small level of prudence I still possess.

Just as with the handgun, there were no misfires among the seventy old rounds fired through the rifle. These groups were nothing to rave about. However, given that the same rifle, shooter, and windless conditions were used throughout, I think an argument for fair comparison can be made. This was not as much an exercise in accuracy as it was a debunking of the oft heard opinion that aged .22 rimfire ammo will have a high misfire rate (due to dead priming compound) and cause barrel leading (due to deteriorated bullet lube – see third pic and caption below).

The youngest ammo (20 to 30 years old) was probably the Philippine Armscor (first row) and it seemed to group the best. It even bested the touted-in-its-day Western Super Match III (second row). Please note: my research found that the Western cartridges were fifty to sixty years old (senior of the lot). The real surprise was the water-tortured Federal Power-Flite of row three. Back in the early 70s, I remember paying $5.99 for bricks of "Pair-Flite" when they rolled the blue light cart to the sporting goods counter at K-Mart. This Power-Flite was probably the second oldest ammo tested. The late 70s era Remington High Velocity cartridges produced group-killing flyers. After noting the four clustered shots in the third bull of row four, I wondered if the bore had seasoned to the Remmy. Alas, two more bulls showed there was no magic in Big Green then, just as now. As a control, I fired three groups with recently acquired Aguila Standard Velocity (three vertical bulls in the far right column). I wish I had shot the Aguila first as my level of fatigue (the CZ 513's trigger is heavy) and the possible dirtiness of the bore may have expanded this inexpensive go-to ammo's groups. Anyway, the Mexican Aguila's accuracy was much like the test group's.

I have nine boxes of the Power-Flite remaining. Since it is the most damaged of the old cartridges, and thus in greatest need of use, I chose to sight in the 513 Basic with this ammo. The smaller four-bull target displays my four zeroing groups (numbered) with the last one's half-inch bullseye-centered effort bringing warmth to this old shooter's gunpowder-stained heart. I will shoot it away between now and autumn. I'm sure I will wipe a tear as I open the last gold, black, and white box and remember teenage plinking sessions with my high school friends.


Revolver
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Rifle
gWqmjaL.jpg

These pics of this morning's cleaning session (revolver on top and rifle on bottom) are evidence that no leading occurred in either firearm during yesterday's test. Both firearms started with clean bores yesterday. None of the patches carried any of the tiny silver shards one finds when cleaning a leaded barrel.
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A heck of an endeavor to add first hand experience to your writing. :)

I've fired crusty old .22LR in the past and the biggest issue was trying to get a Ruger 10/22 to feed the gritty bullets into the chamber.

It makes me want jacketed .22 WMR even more if I were to store it long term.
 
I've fired much crustier .22 ammo that was likely much older. The stuff keeps pretty well so long as it isn't truly wet for an extended period. Some old UMC marked stuff was probably the oldest. Came from Great Grandpa's attic chest. Stored dry but exposed to some 50 minimum years of hot/cold cycles. He died in '46 and the chest had not been opened since. It still killed ground squirrels in the '90s. The world really gets interesting when you get into centerfire ammunition and components designed for extended service in military applications. From 2006 to present, I've fired a lot of ammunition dating to pre 1955. I have won vintage rifle matches with ammunition from 1944 (BRNO mfg 7.92X57) and 1963 (Also Bxn 7.62x54R). Have also fired many thousands of rounds of early 1950's dated 7.62x54R and 7.62x25. Some of this was visibly tarnished, some had been from Hungary to Nicaragua to the US and likely stored in jungle conditions. Have had almost zero misfires, and serviceable accuracy from all. The common thread seems to be corrosive priming compounds. Ammunition in .30cal in reasonable condition is almost always reliable going back to pre-WWII lots, also corrosive primed. The absolute oldest reloading component I've ever encountered was some Unique smokeless powder a friend found in an attic along with some UMC primers. They were in a Sears & Roebuck box with a receipt from the mid 1920s. The powder appeared serviceable and burned with proper vigor in open air. I loaded 5 of the primers in empty cases and 4/5 fired with apparently normal brisance. I did not quite have the courage to load up the unique and fire live rounds, but I suspect it would have worked just fine. This box showed mild water damage and some light corrosion on the inside of the powder can.
 
Pfft, just wipe the white stuff off and shove it in!

I used alot of freebee .22 ammo as a kid in the 90s. I can remember a few boxes of Petters branded .22 lr amongst them. I only remember this because the boxes looked cool and I kept them for years.
I don't remember ever having a whole box of ammo be bad.
I have had a few duds from both new and old ammo.
 
I talked to Joe Farmer, Senior National Champion at the Smallbore National Championships at Bristol Indiana. He had acquired a large quantity of 1960's Eley match 22lr, and some were blowing their case heads after firing. Joe had no idea of why, and I doubt he enjoyed my lecture about gunpowder deterioration. I tend to be dogmatic and over bearing on certain topics. :eek:

R4kTZlz.jpg

Joe at the Western Wildcat Smallbore Prone Regional, he was in his 80's and had fired a 1599 out of 1600 at this regional, by cross firing within his own target! The guy was amazing!!

The lady firing this very old Eley was kicking my butt and not having malfunctions, I have no idea how old the stuff was, and neither did she. She had been given a footlocker of the stuff.

6FTJmGq.jpg

Anyway, the gunpowder in 22lr's ages, and as it does, it will cause internal corrosion, and some rounds will have burn rate instability and blow up during firing. The lifetime of gunpowder is totally unpredictable, which is why the USAF calls it "indefinite" which means, unknowable, not infinite. Some posters have confused indefinite with infinite, I think, because they want their ammunition to last for infinity.

This recent thread has some really excellent pictures of 1989 factory ammunition with deteriorated gunpowder:

Bad powder at such young age
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bad-powder-at-such-young-age.840053/#post-10899398

Just this Monday, at the range, I got to talk to a Navy Vietnam War veteran. He had been at a Navy range, shooting an issue 1911, with "old" issue 45ACP ammunition, when one of the M1911's on the line, totally blew up with that ammunition. He said the thing was in multiple parts, but the Navy shooter was not hurt. Old ammunition has blown up guns, will blow guns. Don't think the stuff will last forever.
 
No surprise about the results. In the late 60's I remember shooting 22 ammo (s, l, and lr) that was AT LEAST 30 years old. Also, I have heard of (urban legend?) loaded percussion revolvers found in the drawers of antique desks going off when the trigger is pulled...
 
Back in '87 or '88, I got the chance to fire a handful of genuine government issue .45 LC. What was left of the box had an 1881 date on it, and all nine fired without a hitch through a Ruger Blackhawk.

Black powder doesn't deteriorate like that fancy stuff.
Primer shelf life was the key there. Which is why the Army clung to chlorate "corrosive " primers so long.
 
When my son and I went shooting last Friday I brought along the Henry .22 mag. Along with some new ammo I brought, there was one 50 rd box of CCI maxi-mags that was several years if not a decade or two old.

As he was levering through the last magazine full, the final round suffered a pierced head. Bits of burning powder shot out of the right side from the bolt area and from below around the lever. His cheek got peppered a bit, but he’s none the worse for wear.

A lesson learned on the need to wear glasses every time we shoot!

Stay safe!

85701FAE-C099-4BD4-9332-84F537B40994.jpeg 77A6B7CD-60A2-4815-B040-811D1D64BEB1.jpeg
 
Which is why the Army clung to chlorate "corrosive " primers so long.


Chlorate primers dud out in time,but they were very stable. I have encountered them in Communist block ammunition many times, so, the Commie's also thought highly of them. I don't know all issues behind the chlorate primers, I think it was a simple chemical compound, easy to make, and the primer was very stable and predictable, but the residue rusted firearms. Sometimes a technology is so good, in so many facets, that it becomes hard to replace, but by the 1950's it was clear, rusting was too expensive for the military. There are a series of eight reports written in 1959 titled Standardization of Lead Styphnate Primers, of which I have seen five. The US military and the ammunition industry cooperated, that is the Government paid the bills and Industry did the work, and that is the origin of the current lead styphante priming compound used in military ammunition. There were of course, previous non rusting primer compounds used in commercial ammunition, and by various countries, Switzerland for one, before WW2. Lead styphante primers are so stable, I have no idea of their shelf life, it is just not studied because in comparison to them, gunpowder has the lifetime of a firefly.
 
Do you know any more than press releases about upcoming Federal Catalyst primers built on Bismuth Oxide?

Nope. New to me. This has to be due to the lead toxicity concerns. There is a lot of elemental lead in the air, just from conventional primers. Table III is a lead bullet with a lead styphnate primer, table IV is a JHP with a lead styphnate primer. The difference in lead in the air, is the amount of lead the primer puts out.

cFdtyUT.jpg
 
I have been shooting old odd lots of .22 ammo for decades, and have never found any that were corrosive. Pretty much everyone converted to non-corrosive priming in the 1920's and 30's: "Kleanbore", "Rustless", "Staynless", etc.

If I found any older, especially in boxes, I would keep it as a collector's item.
 
If we are talking Armageddon I would think of black powder, easy to make, and with patch and ball you could shoot as much as you want. Of course you would be back to a flint lock ignition system, but as far as old ammo goes I have shot many a spam can made decades before I was even born in 1971 from old soviet bloc ammo. Spam cans used to go for $30 for 880 rds of 7.62x54r and the Mossins where $69 straight from the barrel at any gun show.
 
I've only ever seen one gun blow. A Christmas gift Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull. The proud owner was firing from a new box of Winchester when the barrel went down range after two cylinders of firing.
 
While getting ready to move, I recently "unearthed" (not literally, but going through the pile it was it was definitely akin to spelunking) a 30 caliber ammunition can with 1250 rounds of CCI Stingers in it. These would have all been bought between 1977 and 1982 (36 - 41 years old). They were stored in their original container that kept each round separate from the adjacent rounds. The box was stored in an un-air conditioned garage in either Arkansas or North Texas the entire time. I've only shot one of the 25 boxes that was in the can and I haven't had a chance to chronograph them, so I can't comment on velocity, but they look and function just the same as they did when I put them in the ammo can back in 1982.
 
Dodgiest ammo I ever fired:

WW2 era (think it was 1944) steel cased WW 45ACP ball that came back from Korea with a Colt lightweight commander. This was in 1990 or so. Ammo was in the original plain box and honestly was a little hotter than I expected.

Columbian cartuchos cal 30. Copper-turning-black looking bullets of 150 gr. Dirty and smoky but fired. Made by industria militar. Reasonably accurate in a 1903a3. I still have 10 of them. Not as poor as I was in my youth, probably don't need to shoot any more of these.

Compare that to 1955 Yugo surplus 8mm corrosive. No comparison.

Greenbox Remington 22 kleenbore. Boxes look old, ammo looks good. Still have 3 boxes of it fired some through an Iver Johnson supershot sealed 8, no issues.
 
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While getting ready to move, I recently "unearthed" (not literally, but going through the pile it was it was definitely akin to spelunking) a 30 caliber ammunition can with 1250 rounds of CCI Stingers in it. These would have all been bought between 1977 and 1982 (36 - 41 years old). They were stored in their original container that kept each round separate from the adjacent rounds. The box was stored in an un-air conditioned garage in either Arkansas or North Texas the entire time. I've only shot one of the 25 boxes that was in the can and I haven't had a chance to chronograph them, so I can't comment on velocity, but they look and function just the same as they did when I put them in the ammo can back in 1982.

I found 22 LR Winchester Super X from OTASCO. The store label has 1-78, but I think I bought it 1982-83. I have been shooting the brick up, had a couple of failures to fire, an occasional failure to eject, no pressure problems that I can tell, the lube is dry so I have been oiling my ammunition. So, what does that prove? Really what it proves is that I should have shot it up earlier. And because I know so much more now, than I did in 1978, I am shooting this old crap up.


Ruger Blued M512 MkII

Winchester Super-X copper coated HV, OTASCO 1978
18-Aug-18 T = 72 °F

Ave Vel = 957

Std Dev = 22
ES = 78.74
High = 989.2
Low = 910.5
N = 32

I used to copy posts where a shooter reported blowups with old factory ammunition. I have not updated this in a long while, but the stories are still interesting.



For those that think old ammo is still ok....
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/38539-those-think-old-ammo-still-ok-print.html

A buddy of mine took his Sig p220 .45 down the range with us the other weekend. He had some old winchester hollowpoints that looked like they had been buried for 30 years. With myself still being new to guns and shooting, i didnt think anything about it.

Well he took one shot and it blow up in his hand. Now he has shot numerous rounds through this gun without a problem, of course they were new. Anyway, noone was hurt but the sig. This is hte way the gun is stuck in. It will not budge. Id say its a nice new paperweight
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Remington 700 Overpressure with 20 year old factory ammunition


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527519


I'm sighting in my Remington 700 BDL .270 / Nikon 3X9 BDC today, and I decided to rotate old stock ammo. In this case, brand new (20 years ago), 130 grain ammo by a well known US ammunition Company. I bought several boxes of this brand, same lot, back in the early 90's after I discovered how wonderful they worked on woodchucks.


So I'm firing my 2nd round... WHAM! My mild .270 rifle bellows and whacks me in the glasses, odd I thought, as my .270's never kick like that.


The bolt won't open. I mean it is JAMMED. So after 5 min of banging on the bolt with my hand (HARD),it opens Ok, now the bolt draws back hard and the brass feels like its WELDED to the bolt face. I had to use a leatherman tool to pry it out. Rim was damaged, blackened, primer floating around, etc. Bolt appeared ok (Thank the Good Lord for Remington's 3 rings of steel protecting me!), and after switching ammo and using newer stock, the rifle functioned and sighted in 100% perfect. Scared the hell out of me though! This was factory ammo too, not reloads.




Ok, so I called Remington (ammo was early 90's vintage 130 grain Rem bronze point). They only back their ammo for 10 years (expected shelf life according to Remington). Note* I kept this ammo in a cool, dry place, sealed in a US Military ammo can for the past 2 decades. I have ammo from the 50's and 60's that still shoots fine. I guess with gunpowder, it's like rolling dice.
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So, I'm glad the rifle is a Remington, as it was strong enough to take the hit without any damage, otherwise it would be my dime (and hide). I had our armorer (LEO), check it out as well. The bolt face appears ok, and I pulled the firing pin, ok as well. Damn strong rifle.
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That brass was warped near the rim, I hate to guess what the PSI was, I'm betting well over 80,000 PSI, given how stiff that bolt was to open.
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If I can get a photo posted, I will. Now I have several boxes of old .270 ammo to dispose of, as I'm not going to shoot it through my cherished 700 BDL anymore. At least the brass is still good and my right hand is still attached to my arm!
Time to go out and stock up on .270's!!!


Picher; Yes, bore was / is like a mirror. The rifle is a MINT early 80's BDL 700. No rust or pitting. She is one sexy rifle, it was love at first sight...
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The high gloss wood and rich, deep blue steel.... MMmmmmm!!!!


It was close to 90 on Sunday in Maine, and humid. The ammo has been stored correctly, but, after all, it HAS been 20 years or so. I know my knees are not the same as they were 2 decades ago, so I guess I can't expect the ammo to fair any better. It just caught me off guard, as I stock up on (and shoot), old ammo, and NEVER had any issue. I guess I need to rotate my supply more often...
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HK Blown up with Brazilian Surplus


http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php/90285-Gun-Blown-up

Hello gang i was just wondering if any of you guys have ever blown up a gun while shooting. I had the unfortunate luck of blowing up an HK-91 back around 1989. Me and a buddy of mine were buying cases of mil surplus from a company in ohio at the time in 1000 rd. cases. We had gotten a few cases from said company and never had any issues. Well the last case we got from them was from brazil cbc i believe it was. He called me and said he was having jamming issues with this ammo in his sar-48 bush gun. I told him well i'll go out with you and run some through my 91 it'll eat anything. Well the third round out of the 91 "BOOM" pretty scary it was.

I think you can have or get a bad round or lot of ammo with any manufacturer. That being said the ammo that blew my 91 up was military surplus from brazil. Thats the problem with mil surplus its put onto the market because its deemed not worthy of use for the military of said country.

So you get some good some bad you take your chances. But when your setting off small explosions with each trigger pull in your weapon anything can happen at any time with any manufacturers product.

Just be sure to wear eye and e

ar protection and good gloves are'nt a bad idea either. "**** HAPPENS" you know, don't you just love that saying.

Be safe and have a great weekend.


http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21886

Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:29 PM


'Tailgunner', on 17 Jul 2012 - 13:16, said:


I picked up some surplus ammo a couple of years ago and had a couple of hang fires. The hammer would drop and a second later the rifle would discharge.

After that happened a couple of times, I decided I wasn't going to shoot that stuff any more. So I took the ammo apart, thinking I'd at least salvage the brass. After I'd pulled all of the bullets and dumped the powder, I tried chucking the primed cases in a vice and then hit the primers with a pin punch and a hammer. I found that some of the primers would "pop" but others would just sizzle and smoke. I'm pretty sure those were my hang fires. It was an interesting experiment.


The last surplus ammo I had looked so bad that I never fired any of it. Like you, I took it apart. The powder was clumped together. The base of the bullet was green with corrosion. I decapped all the brass, burned the primers and powder outside when burning rubbish, and sold the brass and bullets to a scrap company. Recouped a very small amount of initial price. That was the last time I got fooled on surplus ammo crap.

My guess is that most of the foreign countries that are selling surplus goods to the USA, don't care much about how they handle or store the items, as long as it gets on the shipping container and they pocket the purchase price, they are happy. Caveat emptor is Latin for "Let the buyer beware." It especially applies to surplus goods that have a shelf life. Where was it stored? How was it stored? What temperature? Subjected to water or salt air? Exposed to a structure fire? How was it transported? Etc. etc...too many unanswered questions. A deal that is too good to be true, usually is too good to be true.



http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7756780&postcount=6

Although it's remotely possible that a defective load (very unlikely if factory ammo) or poorly stored ammo that had deterioated. I had some H450 go bad and an "accuracy" load from a .30/06 w/180gr bullet locked up the bolt and removed case looked like a belted magnum...... but gun was unharmed.... primer was blown however and pitted the bolt face...... I pulled down the rest of the ammo and powder "stunk" like vinegar and inside of cases were turning green from acid corrosion..... Ammo had only been loaded 6mos earlier... and powder looked and smelled "ok" then.

Garand Blowup with WWII ball


http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7870113&postcount=13


I have an old shooting buddy who some years ago was shooting some WWII ball (don’t know whose) but his M-1 was disassembled in a rather rapid fashion. He was lucky only his pride was hurt. He said he took a round apart and found rust looking dust along with the powder. Bad powder. Just sayin…..The op rod can be rebuilt which might be a good way to go. Op Rods are getting harder to find and when you find one a premium price is required so it seems. Garands require grease. I’m not sure if you are aware of this. If you are, please no offence taken.


Catastrophic Failure

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?43897-Catastrophic-Failure


Had a bad experience a week ago. Went to the range to test fire some handloads through a Springfield M1 and ultimately it blew up.

Details: Rifle - M1 Garand, Springfield manufacture receiver (1942) rebarreled in1947.
Ammo: 3-rounds. Reloaded - full-length sized once fired Federal brass, 163 grain mechanically pulled surplus bullet, Winchester Large Rifle primers, 46.5 grains of IMR4895 powder. Powder was dispensed/weighed using RCBS Chargemaster system calibrated immediately before use. Brass was checked for OA length and was within specs. prior to loading. Bullets were seated to crimping groove but not crimped.

Third round fired and rifle disintegrated through magazine well area.

Later analysis of rifle indicates bolt face fracture and case head failure. Lower front of bolt face sheared off around ejector hole causing passageway for hot gases and fragments to enter magazine well area and blow out stock and triggerguard floorplate. Receiver held and bolt frozen in place. Bolt has been removed and shows fracturing of both locking lugs as well as longitudinal fracture back from ejector hole. Extractor has backed out. Last round/fractured brass still stuck in chamber.

Post 151

Original loads were:

1) Primer seating depth was checked by visual and finger feel.
2) The original powder was old - still in metal can and starting to show brown dust (on retrospect).

Pulled bullets were GI AP.


HXP at Perry . . .


http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=115939


HXP 77 was the culprit. I won't shoot that stuff. A whole bunch of heavy bolt handle lifts in the 03 matches when it was issued at Perry. I have fired a lot of HXP 70, 72 & 73 with no issues at all, 03's and M1's.


Tombguard, What Ceresco is implying is that while HXP 77 ammo exhibited frequent and sometimes severe issues (excessive bolt lift force, dismounted op rods, duds, hangfires, etc.) there is the concern that other lots will have the same issues but with perhaps lesser frequency. If a manufacturing process doesn't have robust QC practices, more issues are lurking out there like snakes in the grass. I am not saying that you should avoid HXP ammo - I'm just saying that one should be aware that systemically the issues might extend beyond HXP 77 ammo


In the 2007 Perry matches it was '88 dated ammo that gave a lot of 03A3 fits on opening. I keep the saved round I had in rapids beside the silver medal I earned with 29 rounds. Believe me when I tell you it was locking those bolts up TIGHT. (As in roll out of position and beat them open.)



Stiff Bolt Handle on SC 03a3

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=92269&highlight=high+pressure+greek

Took my SC 03a3 to the range a week ago, shooting fairly good groups at 100yds (~2MOA) with unsorted HXP. Had a problem though - occasionally the bolt handle would be VERY difficult to lift open. Never had that before with new production ammo, other sessions with HXP, and never had a problem when dry-firing (snap caps, etc). Didn't break anything evident, and everything APPEARS to function correctly. The brass all looks like I expect (There is some minor pitting in the chamber which shows on the brass, but does not effect extraction), it just felt like I needed a hammer or a crow bar to lift the bolt handle sometimes (but not always). Any ideas as to what is going wrong


Typical HXP problem. It will often be hard to chamber some rounds as well. I had 3 saved rounds in 2006 at the Western Games 1903 match when round 7 could not be extracted from the chamber and no one had a BFH handy. A wooden mallet later helped extract the round. That was in a pristine M1903 Remington with a perfect chamber. All other ammo I feed it functions perfectly. I have a 1903A3 that also has issues with HXP. About 10-20% of some lots are very long in the shoulder. I have a couple rounds that won't chamber in a 1903 at all. It almost looks like I put a No-Go gage in the chamber.


If it is only when you shoot HXP new ammo that is your problem and your answer. It's a problem that has existed with a great many bolt guns since the very first day that CMP began selling HXP ammo and has been much discussed in this forum and others for several years (and see, even today). It was a common complaint among shooters for years at the regional CMP Games and the Nationals when CMP was issuing HXP as the required ammo to use. As I stated before, in 2006, if you walked the line in every relay of the 1903 match you would see shooters having to slap bolts closed and struggle to get bolts open. Many saved rounds in rapid fire were the result and the reason for the many complaints for several years.

I doubt there is a single thing wrong with your rifle or anyone's rifle that is experiencing this problem with HXP in bolt guns. If other ammo feeds and extracts without problems you have the answer already. The long and short of it
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.....no pun intended....is the ammo, not the rifle. HXP brass is some of the greatest re-loadable brass out there but, it often sucks the first time around through a bolt gun. Nature of the beast.



Chilean 75 kaboom on IMBEL


http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=142685


Jeter's right,.....****ty brass. '75 Chilean is notorious for blowing up rifles. This one was freshly built, in spec and headspaced(fortunately not mine). It took approximately 60 rounds to find the 'bad' one. Shooter was relatively unharmed; just a few nicks and cuts. Probably has a world class flinch now. Barrel and bolt looked OK, carrier was not recovered(as in 'no one could find it'). I would not want to be in the way of a carrier that was departing the area at such a speed as to become lost.

*Note* Do not fire Chilean '75.


I wasn't present at the festivities, so I don't have pics of the barrel, etc. I was told by my gunsmith that the barrel was used in the rebuild on another new receiver, as was the bolt, so those parts were undamaged. The extractor was gone of course.

The Chilean '75 has brittle brass that tends to let go, dumping full pressure into the action. I've seen several FALs, HK91's and MG42's destroyed by this ammunition. The picture below(bad as it is)is of a different case,......not the case that destroyed the Imbel pictured above. It did destroy an FAL and I was present at this event. Pretty much the same but without the destruction of the receiver ring; receiver was bulged open at the magwell and the magazine bulged and blown out. Bolt and carrier remained in the rifle, but the topcover was blown off along with the extractor. Again, barrel


Bad Bad 7.62x25 Ammo

http://www.ramanon.com/forum/showthread.php?57650-Bad-7-62x25-Ammo


You have probably read my recent thread on a CZ-52 and FTF problems. I expected it was the pistol that had the problem. A few days ago I took it to the range again with the same can of mil-surp ammo after polishing suspect surfaces in the pistol as the possible cause of its problem.

Right away I had the same FTF problem. The slide would not quite close all the way on a round. I had to nudge the slide fully into battery all too often.

So I began to think of other possible causes of the FTF and examined the ammo I was firing. I might have the answer. The surplus 7.62x25 ammo had cracks in the brass of unfired ammo! Often right where a dimple was is in the case that held the bullet head into the case. Sometimes sizeable cracks between the dimples.

Take a look at these unfired cartridges and the cracks. This defective ammo could explain my feeding problem
 
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The best shooting of the old mix of rimfire ammo are the Armscor Precision 40 grain plated high velocity rounds.

Looking for something to do yesterday, I mounted the inexpensive BSA Platinum 36X44 monster scope (Warne tip-off rings) on the first CZ I ever owned, a CZ 452 Special/Trainer (purchased around the Millennium, factory trigger) and headed to the indoor range. I had several partially fired USBR targets and placed those at 50 yards for an hour of trigger time.

As usual, the indoor range's wobbly portable bench was a challenge as was the dim light, but we managed to shoot some fine groups. This .317" five rounder was one of the best:

TnAJ6wr.jpg

Out of three boxes fired, we had one misfire, and it showed a light firing pin strike. "Let's hit it again." I rotated, re-fired, and scored a perfect X on the next USBR bull. The followup strike was deeper and more defined. It may be time for a new firing pin spring in the old CZ. She's probable cycled and fired twenty thousand rounds. In my experience, that is usually the point where my heavily used CZ rimfires start showing this issue.

I chuckled after emptying the first box of Armscor. I read on the box's end flap, "See Target Inside." At the end of the day, I opened up two of the boxes and clipped them to the target tree, then sent them down to 50 yards. In the dim light, the big scope's tiny black dot reticle disappeared against the relatively large black bulls and the groups suffered. "The Patriot" was right, huh? "Aim small, miss small." That noted, it does seem the boxes' bulls were intended for 25 meter aperture sighted prone shooting. CTC spread was an inch - worst groups of the day:

aO4MxEO.jpg

The ammo did not seem to throw pronounced flyers, although I did as I worked against the challenge of the awkward portable bench. We scored a bunch of 10s and a few Xs with the combo. Most hits were 9s and 8s. The test begged for a repeat from my outdoor club's concrete benchrests. However, I wonder if what I gain in stability, I'll loose to wind. We'll see.
 
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