Anyone here believe a .380 is inadequate?

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I think we are talking about two concepts:
1. .380acp ballistic performance
2. carrier’s shooting skill with any caliber

There is no doubt that a 9mm or greater caliber is ballistically superior to a 380. We can all agree on that (I think). The real question is: can .380acp be adequate for someone to carry for defense who chooses to be limited to that cartridge, for that instance, and for their own skill level?

I think it can, but it may not be sufficient in ALL circumstances.

The same can be said for 9mm, .40, and .45 if we are honest.

This has been a spirited and useful discussion, so far.

I’m getting the impression that we will not come to full agreement, though.
 
bassjam said:
I see people recommend single stack 9's as pocket guns, but they sure don't work for me. I have both a P938 and a MK9. While both will physically fill in my pockets, I've found it's harder to remove them from my pockets once my fists are wrapped around the grips in every pair of jeans and most shorts I own. I'm sure it'd be even worse if my heart rate was elevated, my palms sweaty, and my motor skills impaired in a life or death situation. But my more streamlined 442 j-frame or tiny LCP work great for pocket carry.
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Maybe you could try wearing pants with bigger pockets. That's generally the trick.

Carhart, Dickies, Wrangers, 5.11 and so on all feature larger pockets. I've pocket carried a slew of different single stack pistols (S&W Shield in .40, a Walther PPS M1 9mm, a Walther PPS M2 in 9mm, and a Glock 42 .380 ACP in DeSantis Nemesis pocket holsters) that people often tell me are difficult to pocket carry.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
No difference in recoil? Of course there is.I have a 380 that is is a pussy cat when it comes to recoil. Unless of course you are talking about a 9mm weighing twice as much or more. Obviously you have not shot many 380's. 9 mm more accurate? Sorry wrong again. That depends on the shooter and of course the range. 9 mm is more readily available? Give me a break, I can buy 380 at any gun store in town. Sitting on a few thousand rounds of mixed 380 as I speak. Sorry but hands down the 380 is much easier to carry each and every single day period. And guess what. Mine are reliable as hell. More stopping power? I am willing to bet my life that anyone that gets in front of my little Pico and gets 7 rounds to the chest and face is going to stop. I have been shooting pocket guns for 10 years and anyone who thinks or believes that the 380 is under powered at close range would be making a very BIG Mistake.
By the way, I own a number of 380's and small 9mm. I have one of the smallest micro 9mm's on the market and yes it is easy to carry but NOT compared to the Pico. And when a simple task like going to the mailbox, walking the dog, going to a 7/11 or anywhere I go 7 days a week, the Pico is right there. Why??? because it is nothing to keep with me all the time.

The two nine MM's are lovely guns, easy to carry, but weigh almost twice as much. Weight matters.

Fully loaded Pico with 7 rds.
View attachment 803366 View attachment 803368

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And while I am so fond of the small Micro 9mm is carry as well as the Ruger LCR9mm, and while the carry great, they do not carry as well as the more convenient 380. In many cases the Pico will simply tag along with them.
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Your points are all good to certain extents, but no way that a .380 pound for pound is more accurate than a 9mm. Of course it all depends on the shooter, and the gun as well as the guns preferred bullet. Neither one have enough recoil to be concerned about if you know what your doing. Stopping power goes to the 9mm hands down, and "depends on the shot and placement" all things being equal 9mm all the way. .380 does not come close in penetration period. For me I carry a full size 90 percent of the time, when I need a pocket gun I roll with my .38 J Frame.
 
ColeK said:
I saw this posted on another site and though I would ask here. I personally don't like anything with a bore diameter smaller .357.
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I'm thinking that 2 thousandths of an inch difference in diameter isn't a significant difference.

The difference lies in penetration capacity and actual capacity.

While there's no arguing that a .380 (9mm "kurtz", or "short") is less powerful than the 9mm is capable of, there are plenty of .380 ammunition choices out there which are quite capable of penetrating deep enough.

Would I carry a .380 for self-defense? In a heartbeat, where size of the gun is a significant determining factor.
 
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Browning said:
Maybe you could try wearing pants with bigger pockets. That's generally the trick.

Carhart, Dickies, Wrangers, 5.11 and so on all feature larger pockets. I've pocket carried a slew of different single stack pistols (S&W Shield in .40, a Walther PPS M1 9mm, a Walther PPS M2 in 9mm, and a Glock 42 .380 ACP in DeSantis Nemesis pocket holsters) that people often tell me are difficult to pocket carry.
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The Dickies blue work pants I have certainly don't work for 9mm pocket carry, nor the couple pair of Wranglers I have. Like I said it's not just about fitting, it's more important to be able to easily remove the handgun and I've found when practicing that's not the case, the opening just isn't large enough for my hand and a gun to easily fit. Maybe my thighs are larger than average.

I could try to size up, but I work in a downtown office and am not going to look like I'm wearing baggy ill-fitting clothing when a .380 works fine.
 
Browning said:
Maybe you could try wearing pants with bigger pockets. That's generally the trick.

Carhart, Dickies, Wrangers, 5.11 and so on all feature larger pockets. I've pocket carried a slew of different single stack pistols (S&W Shield in .40, a Walther PPS M1 9mm, a Walther PPS M2 in 9mm, and a Glock 42 .380 ACP in DeSantis Nemesis pocket holsters) that people often tell me are difficult to pocket carry.
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5.11 pants are a great choice for carry. The ones I wear have an extra mag pocket. Just had the first pair I bought in 2001 give out on me, and man did I put them thru hell.
 
bassjam said:
The Dickies blue work pants I have certainly don't work for 9mm pocket carry, nor the couple pair of Wranglers I have. Like I said it's not just about fitting, it's more important to be able to easily remove the handgun and I've found when practicing that's not the case, the opening just isn't large enough for my hand and a gun to easily fit. Maybe my thighs are larger than average.

I could try to size up, but I work in a downtown office and am not going to look like I'm wearing baggy ill-fitting clothing when a .380 works fine.
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This is me. These are Dickies pants, they're meant to look like Carharts. Like I said I'm using a Walther PPS M1 9mm in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. As you can see I have no trouble drawing or fitting the pistol and the holster back into my pocket since I'm doing it at the same time that I'm walking to pick up the impact plate.



Just saying ... it's possible.
 
I have a Glock 26 I can carry easily, and I shoot very well.
However, I bought an Israeli surplus Beretta 84F on a whim...
One range trip later, and I started looking for a good carry load for it...that Beretta just fits my hand perfectly, and points like a finger. Accuracy at 25yds has to be seen to be believed.
I load it with 14 Underwood XTP +P's, and feel pretty well armed.
Longer barrel medium sized pistols are a different animal from the tiny pocket 380s.
 
When I can't carry a handgun, I carry a P3AT or an LCP or (after this weekend), a Pico. They are smaller and lighter than derringers, even. They will put a half dozen 35-ish caliber holes in something, if you can aim. They have their place.
 
Are 9 mm through .45 ACP significantly more effective fight stoppers than .380 ACP?
 
I used to pocket carry a Colt pony pocket lite loaded with silver tip hollow points, supposed to be the best at that time. Was walking my dog and a pitbull came thur a chainlink fence and attacked , I was knocked to the ground and got bitten on hands ,face and legs .My dog was bitten so bad he had to be put down. I was able to get one shot at contact range before the pistol jammed and I was unable to clear because of damage to hands. The bullet entered the dogs left shoulder and he ran off. Managed to get myself and dog home and wife drove to vet and then me to ER .The seat ,carpet and door panel had to be replaced because of the amount of blood. Police were called and went to homeowner who said he didn't know where dog was. A day later I saw the dog in the house and animal control and police picked it up and charger owner. The dog had a 380 size hole in the shoulder that didn't seem to bother him at all .I now carry a 357 snubby in an easy to get to holster or a full size 40 sw if worried about 2 leg problems. Things don't always go the way you think they will.
 
Better than nothing, better at carrying than performing, I only carry a .380 in very limited circumstances where even a .38 revolver gets too bulky. Carry with loads that you know work in your gun, Id prefer at least 50 rounds min before you carry that ammo, but hey its your gun.
 
I have read countless examples of people surviving and functioning at least for a while after being shot multiple times by a 45acp, 9mm and pretty much any caliber you can name. In the right circumstances they can all be inadequate and by the same token you can find cases of 1 shot from a 22, 25 or a 32 doing the trick. There is no magic bullet in any caliber
 
Time to get real. No one would stand within 21" of a 380 with a HST round is because they know damn well they would be killed. And even if not killed, they would not be inclined to continue. Two shots, three shots to the chest, maybe one to the face.
We can all take the time to imagine all kinds of scenarios. The 300 lb monster all methed up. 3 Zombies coming from two directions, a major shootout like the FBI Florida. Or a escaped Grizzly bear. No a 380 is not going to be worth a darn at 50 yards. But like most attacks the distance will be 21' or less.
The modern day 380 ballistics are deadly at close range. And they are improving all the time. And they are Practical to carry for the Modern day working stiff. I spend more time on my shooting skills than fretting about which cartridge to use. A 40 cal means nothing if the owner cannot hit center mass and quickly.
Do NOT ever think you can confront a owner of a small 380 and think that nasty XTP cartridge that will come buzzing into your chest is fools play.
 
Of the roughly 700 homicides I covered in my career, I would wager two-thirds at least were committed with handguns of .380 caliber and below, with .22 probably accounting for the most killings. But It remains a fact that it often took more (and well placed) rounds with smaller calibers, while single wounds at .357 and up were much more likely to prove ultimately, and more rapidly, fatal. Given a "react now with your life on the line" scenario, I am still going to opt for either the .357 Ruger LCR or the S&W .45 Shield that make up my carry arsenal.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
And they are Practical to carry for the Modern day working stiff.
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I find the 380 ACP guns are still trimmer than the equivalent 9x19 Micro guns and more convenient to carry. I have several of each. (Note, I know, there are larger 380 ACPs and even smaller 9x19's. I do not own any of the latter as I find controllability of the ultra micro 9x19's becomes difficult).

Keeping the limitations of the 380 ACP in mind and the very limited chance of an encounter where I live, I feel well served by a 380 ACP.

If my circumstances were different, maybe I'd choose differently.
 
Anyone here believe a .380 is inadequate?

Yes. However, I still will not volunteer to be shot with a .380 pistol. Though I've tried to talk the spouse out of it so many times, she still likes to carry her SIG P-238, and since she's capable of making multiple headshots at distances out to forty or fifty feet or so, I'm not gonna press the issue ...
 
Is .380 inadequate? Probably not. Is it less adequate than, say 9mm and larger? Yeah, probably. I have very little experience with .380s, so factor that in to weighing my statements. I don't own a .380, but I wouldn't knock someone for carrying one. Beats a poke in the eye with sharp stick, and by a long way. I even borrowed a Sig P232 for my wife to shoot once, as we were looking for a CC pistol for her. Danged thing kicked like a mule. I'd rather shoot my 9mm Shield every time.

I'd probably carry a .380 occasionally if I had one, but I can't see buying one (barring running across a screaming deal). I have 9mm pistols for belt carry and a Ruger LCR for pocket carry. If I needed a pocket carry semi, there's a crop of itty-bitty 9mms out there.
 
I feel adequately protected carrying my Colt Mustang or SIG P238. Both guns are extremely reliable, easy to conceal, and capable of some very serviceable accuracy.
 
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