Why the disbelief?

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There’s a sweet spot for retired folks who put no value on their time, enjoy casting and loading as much or more than they do shooting, and don’t shoot quiet enough to take up excessive time casting and loading.

Those that say you will have lots of time once you are retired aren't retired.

I've never been busier and I do not know when I found time work.:)

When I started reloading, I did a fair amount of casting. I eventually stopped as I was not shooting as much and I really needed to make a major capital investment to make casting more efficient. I recently started up again casting bullets not readily available on the commercial market. Material cost is not as important as in my younger years, performance is more important.

If I was competing, shooting a couple thousand rounds a month, I'd probably buy bullets but I would still reload.

It has been decades since I calculated the cost of my reloaded ammunition. I really do not care at this point in time. When I did calculate the cost, it was always less than factory ammunition.

If I was not reloading, I'd be building something in my fab shop, working on the race car or playing with the horses. So, my time is free, it would be spent on some non-money making activity regardless. The kids are gone and the wife does needle work all the time. My time is my own.

My ammunition is better than any cheap or surplus stuff so I get better ammunition for the same or less cost.

Besides, I enjoy reloading and I can load more ammunition than I can shoot.

Reloading and casting is not for everyone. It is grand we have choices.
 
I've never tried to price my cost of loading down like you guys and I know I'm paying more but I don't load as much to save money as I enjoy making better ammo than I can buy at the store. Paying a lot less than factory also lets me shoot a lot more as well My "bulk" target .38 loads probably cost me around .12 each as I use coated cast from Summers for the light target loads and with shipping run around 75 per k. I use Federal primers all the time since I have several revolvers that have light actions and don't fire other primers 100%. I think the last time I ordered 10 or 15k from Natchezz, they had free hazmat and possibly free shipping but they were around $27-28 per k. Most of my bulk powder is Universal which is not the cheapest out there but it meters great in my Dillon and burns real clean. For my hunting loads of 180gr Coated Cast for hogs and 158JHP for Deer and Coyotes, I'm sure the price is double, but I am also shooting ammo that is much more accurate than factory. I generally overlook the cost because I enjoy working up loads for individual guns. I'm fortunate to have a range behind my house that is only about 80 yards but it is where I go at least one afternoon a week and usually spend a couple of hours on Sunday. It's my get away place. I get a lot of pleasure trying out different bullets and powder combinations getting the most out of a gun. After 40 years of loading off and on it still amazes me how different guns react to different bullets and powders. You don't see a whole lot of difference up to 25 yards but at 75 yards what a handgun is capable of with the right load can be downright amazing. And its still a cheap vice. Don't know how many Sunday afternoons I've spend over $50 in a bar drinking beer and eating wings watching sports. Now I just watch holes appear in paper but feel so much better on Monday
 
Ill be honest, I really do not enjoy reloading, but financially and operarionally it's worth it for me because of the random cartridges I shoot.
The stuff like 9s and .223s it's not worth it because I have to buy all the components new, or spend a pile of time I don't wanna on cleaning up range brass.
For reference my cost for powder is 29bucks a pound, and 54 per 1k primers. Brass and bullets are what ever is cheapest online.
 
Ill be honest, I really do not enjoy reloading, but financially and operarionally it's worth it for me because of the random cartridges I shoot.
The stuff like 9s and .223s it's not worth it because I have to buy all the components new, or spend a pile of time I don't wanna on cleaning up range brass.
For reference my cost for powder is 29bucks a pound, and 54 per 1k primers. Brass and bullets are what ever is cheapest online.

Yup. reloading provides one the advantage to have ammunition for cartridges that are expensive and/or obsolete and/or just not available as in wildcats.

I reload the obsolete 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz so that I can enjoy a WWI bring back rifle that my grandfather had. Reloading allows me to experiment with a number of wildcat cartridges such as 38/45 Clerke, 6x45, and 22x6.8.

Also, I have form dies for 221 Remington Fire Ball. When I bought them, it looked like cases would become unavailable. So, now I can keep my 221 FB supplied with cases.

I got into 300 BLK before it got popular so I have the equipment to make cases from 223 Rem, just in case...

I have a car racing friend that reloads shot shell but not metallic cartridges. He does not shoot enough metallic cartridges to justify the capital expense by his calculations. Again, it is grand that we have choices in our reloading choices.
 
As some have said, it is really all about what one wants, to spend $$ on, to spend time on, to do or not.
Whatever the costs for one may be, given the price/availability of components, and of course, when they bought them is pretty much unique to each individual and a snap shot in time.

I reload to shoot more for the same cost. As many, I also reload to shoot the obscure or harder to find cartridges, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 Jap, 7.5 Jap, 30-40 Krag, and some others. I shoot around 2-4K rounds of 9MM a year, and another 1-2K of other calibers combined.
I got in to casting recently and I'm enjoying that aspect of the hobby as well. I've been able to pick up some lead for $1.25 or so a pound. I got some wheel weights from the tire shop, but it was mostly steel, some zinc and some lead. I did manage to get a few buckets of range lead from the indoor range I frequent. I haven't smelted those yet.

I do track my costs, mostly out of curiosity, but also for the satisfaction (for me an me only) of knowing that my loads do cost less than store bought. My tracking is part of my excel log file that I use for all my loads. So, adding up the costs is an easy part.
For my common cartridges, 9MM, 38 Spcl, 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 223 Rem, I won't ever have to buy brass.
As an example from what "my" components cost "me" at the time I bought them, here is my breakdown.
9MM -
Berry's 147 Gr RN (seconds) - $.06
Win 231 (8# bulk buy) - $17.25/#, 3.5 gr - $.009
Tula SP (bulk buy) - $25/K, $.025
Brass - free, $0
Cost for 50 rounds is $4.70

Using my cast loads
Bullet cost based on $1.25/# is $.023, all else the same
Cost for 50 rounds is $2.99

As to equipment costs, those have been paid off a while ago.
 
Tex', you're basically calculating the variable costs based on existing inventory costs, with any labor/time value excluded. I'm sure we all believe that you are accurately reporting your numbers and then are doing the arithmetic correctly. It's just that isn't really predictive of what many other people would use to consider as the cost side of reloading. If they didn't buy S&B primers are $20/1000, and don't think they readily can, then that's not the right number for them, for instance.

Your math makes sense for you. The math would be different for some other folks. Basically, people ought to reload if that sounds interesting to them - and then they can use your variable-only-free-labor model to justify it! If it sounds like a big chore, they should include fixed costs and attach value to their time - and then use that number to convince themselves they can order bulk 9mm for cheaper than they can make it!

IMO, equipment has to be added to the cost of reloading, space, time bench, etc,
everything. Your model makes sense to you, but the average person doesn't have
uniform access to the resources, in order to attempt to emulate your model.

It's not disbelief, it's inability to successfully reproduce the circumstances of which you
uniquely can take advantage .
 
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IMO, equipment has to be added to the cost of reloading, space, time bench, etc, everything. Your model makes sense to you, but the average person doesn't have uniform access to the resources, in order to attempt to emulate your model.

It's not disbelief, it's inability to successfully reproduce the circumstances of which you uniquely can take advantage .
If one plans on shooting during a lifetime, tens if not hundred of thousands of dollars will be spent on ammunition.

Reloading equipment cost (to include added cost you mentioned) can run from several hundred dollars to thousands of dollars but small in comparison to reloading component cost which often run less than half of factory cost of ammunition, often less than third depending on caliber.

As others already posted, reloading equipment/set up cost can be recouped within 1-2 years of reloading. Thereafter, lifetime of savings can add up to several tens to hundred of thousands of dollars.
 
One of the first things I learned in my 36 year banking career is that you can torture the numbers until they confess to anything. A reloading cost analysis depends on too many variables to come up with a one size fits all model. If you don't like to reload and do it only for the cost savings, factoring in the value of your time makes sense, but if you are putting otherwise idle time to use it may not. If you would spend the time drinking beer and eating wings at a sports bar, should you offset the value of your "lost" time by the amount spent at the bar? If you reload to tailor rounds for a particular gun, its hard to put a value on purchased rounds if you can't buy tailored rounds for your gun. A lot of reloaders shoot more because their ammo is cheaper, so the amount they spend on ammo is the same, but how do you put a value on the extra range time? Before I retired, I reloaded to escape the stresses of my job. Should I factor in the "savings" from the counseling bills (or bar tabs) I didn't pay? I have a range in the back yard and have spent thousands on a shooting shed, targets, etc. Since I shoot to reload, should I factor in these costs? Is the time and money spent on developing loads an expense or a capital investment that must be amortized over the number of years I will use that load? The list goes on.

I track my reloading costs more to satisfy my curiosity. Most of my rounds cost less than purchased ammo, but that is not a driving factor for me. For example, I load rounds for my Nagant revolver, and based on the amount I shoot, it will take about 40 years to recoup my investment if I don't put a value on the "fun" factor. I also load shotshells for more than purchased rounds cost, but I console myself with the fact that I don't shoot shotguns often, so my losses are minimized. I got into reloading when my kids were young and money was tight, but when my first handload went bang and hit the target, I was hooked. I eventually gave up trying to justify my obsession and now I just go out and shoot my guns so I have more empty cases to load. But that's just me- your results may vary.
 
Those that say you will have lots of time once you are retired aren't retired.

I've never been busier and I do not know when I found time work.:)

Add in moving like I just did, to an older house that "needs a little TLC" and spare time is non-existent. The folks at Home Depot know me on a first-name basis!
 
I pay around 12c per round with jacketed bullets, and have no trouble believing you, but I do ask anyone on the internet talking about primers/powder cheap to give a link. .

It's costing me about 10c to about 11.5c in components to load 9mm. I get about all my supplies at Cabela's, or at least I was, because they are convenient and the costs are only slightly more than online. Or at least they were until the buy out. I could go there buy a pound of powder and 1k primers and walk out the door and that would last me a few months. I didn't need to buy 5k primers and 8lbs. or powder to make the hazmat worth while or have to wait for the next Big Sale or No Hazmat and Free Shipping. In the end the savings wasn't that big that I needed to have 2 years worth of powder and primers sitting under my bench.!

I don't cast bullets even though I am a member over at Cast Boolits.com.. To do it and do it so it works is too much effort for me. I've read all the horror stories over there, Special dies. Special expanders, Slugging barrels. Barrel diameters all over the scale in 9mm from .355" to .360" No Thank You. Then I keep hearing the, I save so much buying cast lead over plated. Again sorry I've looked and in most cases the saving is pennies.

I won't start casting even though I've looked into it and the biggest reason being is sourcing lead. The state of Illinois banned lead wheel weights years ago as did Minnesota. And now that lead is listed as a hazardous material the recyclers around here will not sell it to you unless you have a hazardous material license. Most won't even talk to you! The days of abundant Free lead are gone or very well soon will be. But that is just my personal view on the subject.
 
Yet people always question the cost.
Just because they can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

First, let me commend you on your thriftiness. You rival my mother in law.

Second, I probably can’t reload as cheaply as you can. But saving money isn’t my main goal. It’s nice when I save some money, but having a steady stream of quality ammunition that runs well in my guns is my main reason for reloading.
And spending some quiet time in my workshop is always a good thing.
 
First, let me commend you on your thriftiness.

And spending some quiet time in my workshop is always a good thing.

Whole heartedly agree. I use to spend 3 or 4 days a week quietly fishing on my boat until 2 years ago when I had my heart attack. Now I'm reluctant to go out on the boat alone. The quiet time I get at my bench is most precious and enjoyable!
 
I am loading my loads for a little under ten cents per round which i shoot about three hundred 9mm rounds a week min. So I have learned to buy in bulk and on sale out of necessity. This was my last purchases that I bought in last few months.
1. 12k primers-bought from Graf and sons with free hazmat and ten dollar shipping that I split with friend 303.00
2. 3 k 124 gr r/n bullets- bought from acme bullet company with 10% brain enos discount 190.00
3. 8lbs sport pistol powder bought from Graf and sons with 10% off and free haz mat with ten dollar ship 139.00
When you do the math it comes to 9.7 cents per round. I understand every body don't shoot this much and it don't make sense for the average shooter to buy in this much quantity but it can be done if your shooting mass amounts lol.
My load 124gr r/n over 3.7 grs of sport pistol. I also shoot 147 gr acme f/p over 3.2 grs sport pistol for about 9.9 cents each.
 
First, let me commend you on your thriftiness. You rival my mother in law.

Second, I probably can’t reload as cheaply as you can. But saving money isn’t my main goal. It’s nice when I save some money, but having a steady stream of quality ammunition that runs well in my guns is my main reason for reloading.
And spending some quiet time in my workshop is always a good thing.

Loading rounds to save money: Yes, it can be done
Being able to tailor loads, and control quality: Priceless
 
IMO, the cost has to include equipment.

Yes, and how many rounds are being loaded and how much the equipment goes up in value vs down.

Some of my first presses have doubled in value as far as a selling price, than I paid for them after loading a few hundred thousand rounds.

If you can pay $130 for a machine and load with it for 30 years, saving money and then sell it for $260, what did it “cost” you?
 
Yes, and how many rounds are being loaded and how much the equipment goes up in value vs down.

Some of my first presses have doubled in value as far as a selling price, than I paid for them after loading a few hundred thousand rounds.

If you can pay $130 for a machine and load with it for 30 years, saving money and then sell it for $260, what did it “cost” you?

Yeah I bought a used Dillon 550 over fifteen years ago for 175 bucks and it's never missed a beat has been and outstanding machine and is still in good condition I'm sure I could make a little on it IF I wanted to sell it. It's loaded well over a 100k. I would say that equipment cost is minimal if you get into any kind of shooting sport or you like to shoot a lot.
 
Yes and if you don’t shoot much it might not make sense to even start. I know a few folks that have a box of 20 rounds that have lasted for a number of years. One shot per animal, if it works for them I’m not going to tell them different because they would just be wasting time and money.
 
Yes and if you don’t shoot much it might not make sense to even start.
JMorris, that is the entire reasoning behind it all. When folks ask me about reloading and they express an interest, one of the first questions I ask them is "how much/often do you shoot?" If they are the type to make it to the range every few months and shoot a box or two, then reloading may not be worthwhile for them. If they are shooting a few times a month, or more, and going through a couple hundred rounds in each outing, or are into one of the gun games, then maybe reloading may benefit them.
The next question I ask: "can you follow directions and pay attention to detail?" Again, for some types, reloading may not be a good idea.

On the equipment costs, we can hash those out in many different ways. But, it really is a minuscule amount compared to the component costs. In my example, my RCBS press was bought back in 1989. How many thousands of rounds has it loaded? I worked out some numbers using one of the calculators around and for the amount of shooting I do, I broke even on $2000 worth of reloading equipment in a 10 month period. Mind you, the equipment was bought over a 4 year period, but the math works out the same.
 
Kudos on the crazy low cost! I do think, however, that you hit the nail on the head with the comment “Just because they can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done”.

Reason being, that replacements costs likely would be significantly more per round, as many members are saying. Those that have been in the game for decades, and were able to buy large quantities of primers and powder for less that half of what they are today, will continue to have cheap costs. A new reloader is not in the same position and is therefore justified, in my opinion, for their disbelief.

When a new potential loader is asking about cost savings, it is not appropriate to be quoting prices for components from the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc. The reason? That loader would not ever be able to match those costs. Breaking down equipments costs, with today’s prices, would be the appropriate way to do it. That would show true potential of costs and savings.

Otherwise, I could say some cartridges I shoot for absolutely free! I have received primers, powder, and bullets before as bulk local purchases that were covered by selling duplicate equipment when I decided I no longer needed it. But for me to tell a new shooter I can shoot for free, would not be a helpful comment to them.

Additionally, I consider reloading to be a hobby and passion. It would be fair to say I consider it on dang near the same level of passion and hobby as shooting itself. I don’t factor time in it, as most others don’t factor time value for hobbies. If it was a job, business, etc. it would be a different story.
 
On the equipment costs, we can hash those out in many different ways. But, it really is a minuscule amount compared to the component costs. In my example, my RCBS press was bought back in 1989. How many thousands of rounds has it loaded? I worked out some numbers using one of the calculators around and for the amount of shooting I do, I broke even on $2000 worth of reloading equipment in a 10 month period. Mind you, the equipment was bought over a 4 year period, but the math works out the same.

I agree 100%. Equipment cost is going to be dictated by volume you load and time you have or want to spend loading. For a couple of hundred dollars you can turn out ammo as good as any, but it will be a slow process. My time is limited and I probably average shooting 1000-1500 rounds a month with probably 80% being .38 and 20% .357 mag. My Dillon 650 is set up for .38 and is probably one of the best investments I’ve made. If I were to calculate my time savings as well as savings per box, it paid for itself very quickly. I only shoot .357 before and during hunting season, so my Lee Classic Turret is plenty fast for that volume. One thing I think most of us have found that have loaded for many years is our volume of ammo shot increases through the years. I started with a single stage 40 years ago and at that time loading 50-100 rounds per session was plenty. Now I’ll run out to the shed and crank out a few hundred just because I have a few minutes of spare time. I just suggest to anyone thinking about to start loading is to realize that your volume will most likely increase drastically, so purchase equipment accordingly. Like mstreddy said. Equipment cost is a small part.
 
Handloading, casting and shooting are my hobbies, it's what I do when I'm not working for the man or doing things around the house that need my attention. Since I've been in the game my cost per rd. are not going to be like anyone else's as my component cost an equipment have changed over the year,regardless I can still reload all my ammo much cheaper than buying factory ammo especially when that includes a few obscure calibers.

I cast all my own bullets for both rifles and handguns, my lead cost nothing, I've collected lead and lead based alloys for many years when it was easily available it was all free for the asking and I have more that I will ever go through especially since I recover and recycles a good bit of it from the berm. Many of my bullet molds are Lee which pay for themselves after casting a few hundred bullets compared to buying them already precast, the few custom molds I have take a few more cast to cover the cost of buying commercial cast but after a few casting secession I have a couple thousand new bullets to shoot after coating or lubing and sizing. The custom molds produce bullets that are not available on the commercial market or if so don't fit my particular rifle or handgun properly. It's nice to produce bullets like you want in quantity without depending on someone else.

As far as brass,powder and primers I have purchased very little brass. Most brass I picked up for free at the local ranges all the non reloader's left behind. I have more 9 mm, 45 ACP, 38 an 357 Mag. than I will ever loose or wear out, I make all my 9 x 18 Mak. for once fired 9mm cases and the 300 Sav. brass I make form all the free 308 Win. or 7.62 NATO cases left at the range. The only two calibers I have to buy brass for are for my 7.62 x 39 and 54r but I got pretty lucky on those and bought new brass online years ago when it was cheap or purchased once fired for the local indoor range for 10 cents a case.

For powder I use several different ones but shooting cast lead in rifles and handguns lets one use powders that work well in both such as Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and my favorite 2400 for general purpose plinking and shooting these work well as all around powders plus I have several powders I use for higher velocity cast loads as well in my rifles such as H335, Reloader #7, IMR or H-4895 etc. My powder cost is fairly cheep as my local supplier basically sell it to me for about $2 over wholesale cost. I still have lbs. of powder with $18 on the sticker.

For primer the most I've ever paid for primer any size is about $26 per K CCI or Win. most of my old stock Win. CCI or Wolf I paid anywhere form 10 to 15$ per K, the LGS still has primer for around $30 per K.

As for reloading and casting equipment I pretty much still use the same stuff I started out with. I still use the same press, powder scales an case trimmer although I did add a power assist trimmer shaft to the Lyman trimmer to speed up 9 x 18 Mak. production. For powder handling I use an old RCBS DUO Measure and a Lil Dandy and about 12 different rotors. I may replace my old Lee bottom pour pot this year as it's getting pretty old, always good to have a backup. I do ally my bullet sizing with either Lee push through sizers or my old RCBS Lube A Matic I bought for $75 that came with 10 sizing dies 8 of which I could use for all my needs, I got pretty lucky on that purchase.

I haven't done any cost per rd. average in some time as I change component all the time but on average I can reload any pistol caliber for around half the cost or less than factory ammo and on average any of my rifle caliber cost me around 10 to 15 cents each. The higher velocity cast loads generally run in the 15 cents per rd. range as they require a little more powder.

As to my time reloading and casting are my hobbies, it's what I do on my free time to relax and get away from the the daily grind and there is no amount of money that can replace that.
 
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