Red-Dot Pistol Sights

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rpenmanparker said:
You can throw your money after imaginary “requirements”, like milling, drilling, and tapping the slide, and no doubt such work makes for a nice end result, even a superior one.
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It's not imaginary to want your gun to mount in the same position as other guns not equipped with a red dot. Hence having the RDS mounted as low as possible.

This is the struggle when people try them. Their mount point has to be adjusted from where they are used to. Possibly undoing decades of learned behavior.

Ive got a couple that use a mounting plate system in a milled recess (glock and 1911). If I had to do it over again. I would have the slide milled specifically for my RDS.. It makes that much difference.
 
tarosean said:
It's not imaginary to want your gun to mount in the same position as other guns not equipped with a red dot. Hence having the RDS mounted as low as possible.

This is the struggle when people try them. Their mount point has to be adjusted from where they are used to. Possibly undoing decades of learned behavior.

Ive got a couple that use a mounting plate system in a milled recess (glock and 1911). If I had to do it over again. I would have the slide milled specifically for my RDS.. It makes that much difference.
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The difference is negligible. A few minutes of repetitively mounting the gun to shooting position and you’ve got it. Much ado about nothing. Certainly no different than just buying gun of a different type the you already owned. Would you say not to do that because of s change of mounting point?
 
tarosean said:
It substantial when you're pushing yourself and your gun to the limit..
Probably no biggie if your just goofing off informally.
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Interesting logical inference there. If x, then y. Not y. Therefore not x. My position that the height of the red dot isn’t important identifies me as a goof off. Somewhat Insulting, but still interesting.
 
I actually prefer the explanation that really accomplished shooters don’t really care about the height of the red dot.
 
rpenmanparker said:
My position that the height of the red dot isn’t important identifies me as a goof off. Somewhat Insulting, but still interesting.
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Put yourself against the clock.. You can download free apps on cell phones if you dont want to buy a shot timer.
course you still need multiple set ups with only the RDS height difference to get a full picture.
Like I said.. 1/4" plate height makes a difference to ME comparing a milled slide G34 to a MOS to a dovetailed mount. the milled was by far the best. I unfortunately own the MOS system. The dovetail seemed like a diving board where I would have to wait on the dot due to the extra movement.

rpenmanparker said:
that really accomplished shooters don’t really care about the height of the red dot.
Click to expand...

The fastest/"best" in the biz are not shooting slide ride optics. Even then, they are utilizing 90deg mounts to get the window as low as possible to the bore axis.
 
tarosean said:

Put yourself against the clock.. You can download free apps on cell phones if you dont want to buy a shot timer.
course you still need multiple set ups with only the RDS height difference to get a full picture.
Like I said.. 1/4" plate height makes a difference to ME comparing a milled slide G34 to a MOS to a dovetailed mount. the milled was by far the best. I unfortunately own the MOS system. The dovetail seemed like a diving board where I would have to wait on the dot due to the extra movement.



The fastest/"best" in the biz are not shooting slide ride optics. Even then, they are utilizing 90deg mounts to get the window as low as possible to the bore axis.
Click to expand...
Why is there extra movement with the dovetail mounted red dot? The higher mount is closer to the level of the eye coming up from the holster or ready positions. There is less movement.
 
tarosean said:
Its not as solid as direct mount. It vibrates under recoil.
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What difference does that make? It returns to the proper position in time for the next shot. Is the “vibration” not in fact small compared to the overall motion of the gun?
 
I bought a Vortex Razor red dot for a .22 rifle and I like it where I'm shooting at 15 to 50 yards. I have a snubnose revolver for a handgun and haven't really considered trying to mount it on there. But I have considered a red dot on a pistol. However, while having never tried a red dot, I did try several CT lasers on my revolver. Shooting with the laser, I was able to shoot much more precisely and consistently than I could shoot without it, but it was also much slower. In fact, I was so disturbed by my hesitation to fire while I was looking for the laser dot that I quit using a laser.
 
tarosean said:
The fastest/"best" in the biz are not shooting slide ride optics. Even then, they are utilizing 90deg mounts to get the window as low as possible to the bore axis.
Click to expand...

This is exactly correct. And to point, if you take any tier 2 or 3 SCSA match results and compare the CO scores to the Open scores the Open will be better. You will not see many if any of the top Open shooters using a slide mount optic. The idea is to get the dot as close to the bore as possible.
 
I have red dots on "target" handguns; Buckmark, Ruger Mark III, etc for accuracy....but I take longer to acquire a sight picture with one and wouldn't put one on a defensive handgun.
 
thomas15 said:
This is exactly correct. And to point, if you take any tier 2 or 3 SCSA match results and compare the CO scores to the Open scores the Open will be better. You will not see many if any of the top Open shooters using a slide mount optic. The idea is to get the dot as close to the bore as possible.
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That’s true for all optics. But it doesn’t mean that dovetail mounted red dots aren’t quite serviceable.
 
^^^Carry optics division is a great place for production shooters that (like me) are getting old and losing eyesight but aren't ready to hang it up yet. But you do give up a few things having the sight on the slide.
 
thomas15 said:
^^^Carry optics division is a great place for production shooters that (like me) are getting old and losing eyesight but aren't ready to hang it up yet. But you do give up a few things having the sight on the slide.
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Where else would you put it? Isn’t that where all sights are? Sure there are some brackets that attach to a rail underneath the barrel and loop around over the slide, but that is just goofy. Dovetail mounts and milled slides both constitute slide mounts.
 
rpenmanparker said:
Where else would you put it? Isn’t that where all sights are? Sure there are some brackets that attach to a rail underneath the barrel and loop around over the slide
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If it isn't mounted to the slide or to the rail, I'd think the two remaining obvious choices would be the frame or the stock panels...everything old is new again (frame mounted C-More); not going to get much lower that this:

13643838_1738981596383236_960214574_n.jpg.2ad2984c3ac407d1a4f5519aa39df2b4.jpg
 
berettaprofessor said:
I have red dots on "target" handguns; Buckmark, Ruger Mark III, etc for accuracy....but I take longer to acquire a sight picture with one and wouldn't put one on a defensive handgun.
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I have the same issue with my SIG P220 and Trijicon RM06 combo. I am HOPING I get better with practice as it is my defensive handgun. I simply can't see the irons anymore, especially at night.
 
BigSteve57 said:
I have the same issue with my SIG P220 and Trijicon RM06 combo. I am HOPING I get better with practice as it is my defensive handgun. I simply can't see the irons anymore, especially at night.
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The trick is to build muscle memory through repitition of bringing the gun from the ready position to the fire position. If you bring the gun up the same way every time, the dot will be in the same place every time. All that is needed is to make that dot position the center of the screen by careful development of the motion. Then practice, practice, practice. Once you have the motion mastered, the dot will always be where you want it. You can’t raise the gun any which way and expect to be able to hunt down the dot afterwards.
 
berettaprofessor said:
...but I take longer to acquire a sight picture with one and wouldn't put one on a defensive handgun.
Click to expand...

As others have said, practice helps, but the problem is when you have multiple guns that all point differently. This is something that can be practiced in dry-fire.

All that said, some guns, for some people, "point" better than others. Having played with red-dots for a number of years two things really have helped. One is a quality red-dot. My Sig R1 is so much easier to acquire, don't ask why, than the $100 low end make/model I had. The whole "picture" is just so much clearer.

The other thing pushed by some is co-witness. It's especially helpful for those of us who are not professional competitors and who can't devote hours a day to developing that perfect 1st shot sight picture. By being able to see the iron sights the red-dot just appears because you know which way to move the gun by seeing the iron sights. Plus of course if the dot fails you still have sights.
 
alfsauve said:
As others have said, practice helps, but the problem is when you have multiple guns that all point differently. This is something that can be practiced in dry-fire.

All that said, some guns, for some people, "point" better than others. Having played with red-dots for a number of years two things really have helped. One is a quality red-dot. My Sig R1 is so much easier to acquire, don't ask why, than the $100 low end make/model I had. The whole "picture" is just so much clearer.

The other thing pushed by some is co-witness. It's especially helpful for those of us who are not professional competitors and who can't devote hours a day to developing that perfect 1st shot sight picture. By being able to see the iron sights the red-dot just appears because you know which way to move the gun by seeing the iron sights. Plus of course if the dot fails you still have sights.
Click to expand...
That is why I like the mounting plate that Galloway makes for the Ruger LC9s and Burris FF3 sight. It has iron sights included on it.
 
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