Moving to alaska - .375 H&H recoil question, kimber talkeetna

I had built an Alaskan rifle a few years ago using a Rem 700 XCR II barreled action (stainless and factory nitride coating, 24" bbl, nice adjustable iron sights) and had it glass-bedded and free floated in a B&C Weatherby stock because of the high comb and cast-off for recoil management. I added a Timney trigger adjusted to 3-1/2 lbs and Leupold QD rings/bases to switch between either of two scopes or the irons as circumstances suggested. My logic was to build a reliable, accurate rifle for both elk in the lower 48 and moose/brown bears in AK. I used to do some fishing up near Talkeetna, AK and encountered a fairly big brown bear while wading in the river. Fortunately, he wanted salmon more than long pig.

My rifle was about 7-3/4 lbs and was reasonably comfortable with Federal Premium 260gr AccuBonds. For moose, that load was also fine but I wanted 300 gr solids and softs for bear defense. With those, the rifle was less comfortable but if I encountered a bear, the mauling was going to hurt worse than the beating from the rifle.

Now 72, I decided my days of placing myself in bear country were over and sold the rifle earlier this year. It was a great shooter, capable of 5-shot 1MOA groups off the bench and great for carrying at 7-3/4 lbs. Even though the recoil from a .300 WM is less with a 205 gr bullet, I found the .300 more unpleasant than the .375, probably due to the sharper, faster punch of the .300 compared to the .375.

BTW, if you're a handloader, let me know if you want to buy my RCBS dies and brass and bullets.

Good luck and good hunting,

Narwhal said:

Not sure if it's worth having in AK.

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Thats a fine rig, muffler and all, quite legal to hunt with in AK as well.

Since you carry a gun alot more than you shoot it, weight is always an important factor.

Iron sights as back ups to a fogged or broken scope will save a hunt.

I’ve been seriously looking at the talkeetna. I currently have a sako L61r fiberclass that is about a full pound heavier than the talkeetna. That being said the recoil of the 375 is stout but certainly manageable. Call me crazy, but it’s one of my favorite guns to take to the range and bench it. You will be fine, and it will make you a better shooter with lighter recoiling guns.

H&Hhunter said:

A .375 and a .338 are so close in trajectory and capability that they might as well be the same. In fact I find a .338 with 250 gr bullets to have a bit more bite in recoil than a .375H&H. A 270 gr load out of a .375 just about equal the trajectory of a 225 gr load out of a .338 and shoots a bit flatter than the 250 gr out of a .338 WM. They both produce about 4,000 Ftlbs ME they have very similar recoil and they produce about the same results in the terminal end. But the .375 always gets labeled as “a specialty round” or a short range African round where the .338 gets labeled as a really good all around long range North American round.

I don’t get it, but there is a lot of myth and mystery going on there. The .375 is almost the ballistic twin of the .338 WM. In fact under field conditions the difference is so small as to be negligible.

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It’s most likely because the h&h requires the less common, more expensive 3.6” action length. And in the US standard long actions are common. I will say, to the trajectory, I loaded some 250gr game Kings in my 338 to 2650 out of a 24” barrel, and I’m sure would push around 2700 in a 26”. That has a much better trajectory than any 375 load I’ve found and is a great long range load with its higher bc

I'm loading my 375HH to 2850 using TTSX 250s as a standard, easy load out of a 23" tube. I've pushed up to 2950 with RL15, but my spread grows substantially. So 2850 with Varget is where I live.

Trajectories are as HHHunter described.

With scope and sling and a full mag, this one sits right at 7.5lbs (M70 action; D'Arcy Eccols stock, standard fill).

I've fired 30 rounds in load testing in one session, off sticks. Not really a problem with standard loads.

H&Hhunter said:

I am Pushing 270 for LRX, BC in the mid .400’s at 2700 FPS out of my 20” tube as we speak. It’ll do over 2800 out of a 24” tube.

While the .338 has a better BC the difference is negligible inside of about 600 yards. At sane hunting distances there is no meaningful difference in trajectory. Most .338 are built on a long action just like a .375.

The parent case for a .338 is a .375 cut down to 2.5” BTW.

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I’m not calling the h&h a poor long range cartridge, I love the cartridge. It may be my favorite out of all the cartridges I shoot. True with that data the performance inside of 5-600 is negligible. I will say, I do like the advantage of having one load in the 338 that will serve me well at any range. I wouldn’t want to use those Barnes LRX too close at that velocity.

I know the parent case for the 338, but from my experience, there are vastly more rifles in the us which are chambered in 338wm on long action receivers than magnum receivers. 3.34” receivers are what most major us manufacturers use Kimber, Montana rifle co, Winchester, even the high end Dakota

Another thing to consider is the true versatility of the .357HH. Using the excellent SR4759 (sadly discontinued! but I bought 50lbs of it) I have 235gr hardcast loads at 1500fps; 220gr bullets at 2000fps (both of those are like shooting a popgun, and are unbelievably effective on small game and deer; my 9 year old can shoot it easily); all the way up to 250gr bullets pushed up to 2900fps; 270gr bullets pushed to 2750fps; 300gr bullets pushed to 2580fps.

Not relevant if you don't handload, I suppose, though the beauty of the 270gr and 300gr bullets hitting almost identical points of aim is well established.

H&H, I'd love to hear your reports on the LRX so far. I've been beyond happy with the 250grTTSX, and the classical 270grTSX. What are you seeing out of the LRX that moved you from the TTSX?

H&Hhunter said:

I will say though that I find a similar weight .338 WM to be a bit sharper in recoil than an H&H.

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I would agree with that and I have shot the 338 Winchester Magnum and the 375 H&H Magnum in a gun of the same weight and with the same weight bullets, i.e., in a Blaser R 93 where one can easily switch barrels.

I'm getting some great ideas on loads for my .375 weatherbies (all my 375 H&H are now freshened to .375 Weatherby) here.

H&Hhunter said:

The TSX is extremly accurate but has very poor BC. My rifle would not group the 250 GR TTSX as well as it does the 270 GR TSX. When they came out with the 270 GR LRX I decided to give it a try. And boy am I glad that I did! I am getting about 50 FPS better velocity than the TSX ( I can’t explain why but it does) and the accuracy is phenomenal. My rifle has always liked 270 gr Barnes from the 270 GR Barnes X to the TSX. And now the LRX. In any case the LRX is giving me .5 MOA groups on a good shooting day and I had a CDS dial built for it for a Vari X 6, 1x6. The thing is right on the money out to 600 yards. I haven’t had the oportunity to play with it beyond 600 because my range only goes to 600.

The whole reason I started shooting Barnes X, 20 some years ago was because I was looking for a slippery bullet for the .375. The original Barnes X 270 GR bullet had a BC of like .515. I was so impressed with the Barnes in the field on game that I’ve stuck with them full circle. Now we are back to a slippery .375 Diameter 270 GR Barnes. I am very happy with it.

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Sounds like a good bullet. And it doesn’t vaporize at close distance? Most Long range hunting bullets are designed to expand at lower velocities. If it can do both that’s impressive, maybe it has to do with the properties of copper

I have a Ruger Hawkeye African in .375Ruger. It’s not a heavy rifle, but likely heavier than a Kimber Talkeetna.

Recoil with factory or duplication is about like a Rem870 w/duckloads. Not bad at all, but may leave you with a headache after a morning of shooting a limit of diving ducks. Nowhere anything like shooting Breneke slugs from an 870 w/18.5-20” bbl.
I once was at range resighting my 870 Police Special from Remington 1oz low recoil Remington to Winchester 1oz SuperX slugs, for qualifying at annual qualification. (I had the previous September held the NRA Police National record in the shotgun match for two relays when the current record beat me by 1x). A local Doctor who I was aquaintances with showed up to check out his MkX Whitworth .458winmag prior to a trip to Africa. We got to talking and I offered to chrono his loads. (Hornady 510’s soft and solids, full max load). I fired the rounds as he was afraid he’d shoot my chrony. They were right at 2,000fps. He asked me how was recoil with a grin. I said, not bad! Considering. He laughed and asked what I’d shot that recoiled more. I smirked, picked up my shotgun and handed him my gun and a SuperX slug. He fired it. I asked if he want to shoot another? He handed me the gun back and said, no, you’re right, that’s a LOT worse!

In a properly stocked rifle, neither the .375’s or .458winmag are that bad. My current 870 wears a Rifle comb stock with approximately 1lb of lead shot in the butt. Really, really reduces the recoil. I wouldn’t want a .375 that weighs less than 9lbs. Balance of the rifle will be more important. A well balanced rifle will feel lighter than an awkward rifle. My .375R wears a Burris 3-9x w/ballisticplex reticle to take advantage of the 250gr Sierra’s I stoke it with. If going to Alaska for Moose/Bear hunt, Ill swap to the Leupold 1.5-5x VX3 and 300gr Noslers I found at a flea mkt for $10/50!

Only mod to my Ruger is to slightly shorten the stock to allow fitting of a Pachmayer Old English “Sorbothane” Brown recoil pad. Looks like it “grew” there and removes any “sting” from the recoil. Also, don’t shoot heavy rifles with just a t-shirt on. A stiff jacket helps immensely.

BTW; if you take the ar w/can to AK, don’t forget to notify the ATF. Your tax stamp is only good for your home state of residency. My best friend who lives only 15miles away in Alabama can’t bring his can to my house to shoot on my range...

Narwhal said:

Hello,

I recently obtained a new job in Anchorage and will be there for at least a few years. I could see myself trying a hunt of some kind if I can coordinate something with my coworkers. What kind? I don't know, moose, caribou, etc perhaps.....and we all know what else lives in alaska.

Anyhow, I am coming from the southern US.

The first long gun I ever purchased when I was 25 y/o was a remington 870 express with an 18" barrel that weighed about 7 pounds. None of the ranges alowed bird/buck so I shot i with a lot of slugs, some 3" brennekes 600 gr @ 1500 fps too. I learned quickly not to shoot this from the bench, but it often felt like a punch to the face if I tried a few dozen magnum slugs in that 6.5 pound pump gun. I walked away with cheek and shoulder bruises the first few times.

My quesion: How would a kimber talkeetna .375 h&h compare to shooting that 6.5 pound 870 with 3" slugs? If it's no worse than that, I think I can deal with it. Kimber says the talkeetna weighs 7.5 pounds, so probably 9 pounds with a scope.

My current gun for the south is a remington 700 LTR in .308. It does not kick at all especially considering I usually shoot it suppressed. I have considered something like a .300 win mag instead of the .375 but it seem too close to the .308 I already have. I have a few thousand rounds through that .308 and have shot it out to 1100 yards in a long range class so I have good dope for it. It is about a 1 MOA rifle. I'm just afraid that a hunting guide would not be pleased if I showed up in AK with a .308.

I realize that recoil isn't a big deal on a hunting rifle, but I don't like buying guns that are unpleasant to shoot.....if I don't like shooting it I feel like I wont practice enough to be proficient. I'm going to guess the 7 pound 870 with 3" black magic slugs was at least 40 ft pounds of recoil energy, the H&H would be about 35 ft-lbs?

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It's twice that of .30-06. I had two .375s when I was younger and probably dumber. Given your situation I would pick .35 Whelen with 250 grain slugs. The old Ruger 77s were the best due to lighter barrel weight and highly desirable tang safety.

H&Hhunter said:

I had a CDS dial built for it for a Vari X 6, 1x6

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Now this... THIS is tempting.

I do believe that the 270gr .375 is just too classic to pass up. I don't think moving from 250s to 270s makes any difference for North American game, but if the 270 is grouping tighter, without a loss of MV... what's not to love?

I've owned two .375s and a .338 Win mag. Now I like them both, a lot; and the only painful recoil came from the .338. They're gone, now, as I had to pair down my stable. Of the two I prefer the .375 but I had that .338 for 35 years and liked it.

Isn't there an insert that contains mercury that can be installed in the butt stock to help reduce recoil? I think it's called kick ese.