45-70 350 gr hard cast and reloader 7

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Wolfmanjack

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Looking for some guidance on a 350 gr hard cast load recipe with reloader 7. I currently load 49gr of rel 7 with hornady 300 gr hp and they definitely have some bite. I'm looking for a decent whitetail/target load. Shooting a cva scout v2. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Alliant data gives a starting load of 35grn Rl7 with a Speer 350grn SP, at around 1500fps... that should be plenty with the cast bullet.
 
It seems that is max for trapdoor loads. I was loading with the assumption that this modern rifle was capable of "tolerating" lever action loads? Am I wrong on this?
 
The trapdoor loads once killed buffalo, so no reason they couldn't handle deer today. Unless global warming has something to do with its ability to put meat on the table. I cant speak for the CVA Scout, but I tried the "modern" level loads in my marlin lever and decided that it was overkill for the deer in my area. All I load now is Trapdoor level loads, or soft shooting loads with trailboss powder.
 
I would agree that trapdoor loads should be more than adequate for any deer I should encounter. I am also not chasing extreme speed or recoil. Enlightenment is what I seek:) thank you gentlemen for the replies.
 
I worked up my 350 gr cast load with reloader #7 up to 41gr. The groups were all over the place and not anywhere near acceptable at 75 yards. I loaded 4 rounds with 12 gr of tight group as I have had some success with this load in the past. 1.5" group at 75 yards. Virtually no recoil at all. I don't know what kind of velocity I'm getting with h this load. You guys think it will be sufficient for whitetail deer?
 
I'm going to guess your velocity is in the very low teens with that, but I don't have anything to base that on except results from others with similar powders. I would be surprised if it hit 1300fps... but 350grn of bullet at 1300fps is nothing to trifle with.

That load of 41grn Rl7 may have been overdriving the bullet, and scattered accuracy suggests the bullet might be too small for the bore... 2 negatives don't equal a positive. Is that a commercial cast 350? I have been using LaserCast's 350 recently, they haven't been the most accurate bullet on the planet out of my 1895.
 
I cast the bullet at .4605 from an accurate mold. It tries to group at 34.5 gr of Re7 but unsatisfactory in my opinion. I have shot the lee 405 plane base with 12 gr tightgroup and it too groups pretty well although that bullet drops from my mold slightly undersized and I get a little bit of leading in the barrel. I don't have a chrony but i would be happy with 1300fps. I was thinking 1200 optimistically.
 
I got out this afternoon and shot 30 more of the 12 gr tightgroup loads. 10shot 75 yard group was 2". 50 yard group around an inch, and 100 yard group opened up to 3". I was hoping the Re7 would work but it wasn't meant to be.
 
Are the TG loads better than the Rl7? I must have missed that somewhere.

3" at 100yds isn't too bad, and seems reasonable accuracy for hunting.
 
I HAVE been using hornady 350 gr fp interlock #4503 and hodgdon h4895 out of my guide gun.... really a good accurate load to 200 yards. I shoot this pretty hot as it is my bear load. but seeing how i just had a heart valve job won't be shooting anything like this for a well.... lately more 1911 22 cal time then anything else...
 
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The tight group load is way better than the Re7. The R7 load was actually terrible from 32-41 grains in .5 grain increments.
 
I use RL-7 in a Guide gun with a 425 cast and gas checked bullet...absolutely no leading with them. Might be more of a case of needing a gas check than lube at the velocities you're trying to run.
 
Ive never tried rl7 or titegroup. I shoot rl15 in 308 win. My goto recipe for cast bullets in my guide gun is 12gr unique under 330 gr gould express hp. 1" group at 100 yds. Ill look at titegroup but im satisfied with the unique
 
I was going to suggest Unique, too. I think 15grn under a 405grn bullet is about the gold standard there. I have about a pound and a half of TG, never really thought of using it in the .45-70, there are too many better powders on my shelf.

Wolfman, do you have any other powders that might be suitable? Just seems like we are missing something here.
 
I have imr 4831, imr 4064, h335, cfe 223, tightgroup, longshot, Alliant steel, and reloader 7 on hand at this time. I shoot jacketed 45-70 bullets with the R7 and get 1.5" 100 yard groups. I really want to harvest a deer this year with a cast bullet. I had the R7 on hand and have read that this powder works well in the 45-70 with cast. I tried the tightgroup load only because I had decent success with it in the past with my 412 gr cast load. My accurate mold drops a wfn bullet at 353 gr. If 12 gr of tightgroup is pushing this bullet at an acceptable speed to put bambi down then I'll be a happy camper?
 
Yaa, none of those other powders you have would really be suitable for lower velocity loads. I had some 350's loaded up with IMR4064, but wound up pulling most of them... simply too much recoil for what I was looking for. Meh, take that TiteGroup and run with it!
 
From Wikipedia:
After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced: the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32.5 g) bullet. The heavier 500-grain (32 g) bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volley fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire.[5]

The 45-70-500 , loaded with 70 grains of black powder was shown to be lethal at about 2 miles. Hitting something at extreme ranges is another mater, but lethality is not.
 
Shot a small doe this evening at 55 yards with the tightgroup load and 350 gr cast bullet. Shot her through the shoulder and she never took another step. 45 cal hole going in and 50 cal hole going out. Apparently my speed is sufficient, now I need a big buck to test the load on:)
 
Unless and until I had reliable information telling me otherwise, I would treat this break open action like an original Trapdoor.
CVA makes a Scout in 35 Whelan. This is a necked-up 30-06 case. I would think that one could safely load the 45-70 Scout to any energy your shoulder can stand.
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy for 35 Whelan
180 gr (12 g) FN 2,963 ft/s (903 m/s) 3,510 ft⋅lbf (4,760 J)
200 gr (13 g) SP 2,798 ft/s (853 m/s) 3,478 ft⋅lbf (4,716 J)
225 gr (15 g) SBT 2,613 ft/s (796 m/s) 3,412 ft⋅lbf (4,626 J)
250 gr (16 g) RN 2,523 ft/s (769 m/s) 3,535 ft⋅lbf (4,793 J)
 
1400 or 1500 fps 45 caliber will kill deer and most other things very well : ).

Get it shooting how you like and dont worry about speed. Thats not how these bullets kill. 1500 fps 405 WFN out of my guide gun does the trick on deer with gusto.
 
I have been shooting the 45-70 since 1972 and during that time I have tried a dozen different rifles.
You seem to be set on Re7 yet I cannot recommend that powder for much of anything except hunting.
The best accuracy with lead bullets means soft bullets of about 10 to 12 Brinnel. This is roughly 20 parts pure lead mixed with 1 part pure tin. The bullets only need to go 1100 fps to 1300 fps. All you get for higher velocity is more recoil. No matter how fast you go you will never make a flat shooting varmint rifle out of a 45-70.
Yes the slow loads are fun to shoot. A 300 grain bullet will kill any deer. If the stubby 300 gr bullets do not shoot well try heavier bullets. At long range the 500 grn bullets are the most accurate but you pay a penalty with increased recoil.
 
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