Ethical deer range for a 50 cal round ball?

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brewer12345

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I have a 50 cal TC Hawken coming my way with the idea that I might be able to get a muzzleloader tag next year. I like the idea of traditional round ball hunting, but as I look at published muzzle velocities and consider how fast energy drops off with a sphere in flight it seems like such a choice means effective hunting ranges would be really short. It looks like the fabled 800 FPE hits at about 50 yards. Obviously there are alternatives (Lee REAL, Maxis, Minnies, various conicals) that would offer more weight and much longer effective range. But I still wonder about the traditional round ball.

I'd be hunting mulies in Colorado, so somewhat stockier deer than whitetails. I've had these fools get within 50 yards of me, but my favorite spot has somewhat sparse cover so 75+ yards is a more common opportunity. Does this suggest I should stick to something other than a round ball? Obviously if I draw an elk tag something a LOT heavier would e indicated.
 
When I hunted with round ball, I had the sight set at 50 on my Hawken. I went to 385 gr. Buffalo Bullets HBHP, and set the sights for 75, and ended up taking a doe at 125 by holding over about 4". FWIW.
 
You can kill at 100 yards easy if you will set up your gun to do so. I used a 240 Gr SWC 44 in my fifty Cal it was loaded with 80Gr pistol powder. A 240gr is heaver than most rifle bullets used on deer. GOOD LUCK
 
Yes, 75 yards or so is about what my eyes would allow. Have been shooting a 357 lever with just a peep sight and 100 yards is pushing it for me.
 
My .54 T/C Hawken shoots good groups with 90 gr 3f @90yds with prb.
That is my maximum range.
I would think your .50 would be similar.

I agree with this. The question is not how far the ball will kill but how far can you keep all your shots inside a 5 or 6 inch circle with your heart rate accelerated. You could find out by jogging 100 yards between shots! :thumbdown:
 
Since you know that you're likely shooting at larger mulies, then you may owe it to yourself to load with a conical that can deliver a better chance for a lethal shot at marginal PRB distances.
Even a short 240 grain conical such as the Hornady .50 Pennsylvania Conical should provide better penetration than a PRB. --->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...s-50-caliber-512-diameter-240-grain-box-of-50

Here's a short 1:36 video of someone shooting a 240 grain Powerbelt hollowpoint at the subsonic speed of about 880 FPS loading only 30 grains of 777.
Without expanding, the bullet still plows through 5 gallons of water at that slow speed which somewhat simulates the loss of energy of a PRB at longer ranges.
I'm not too sure that a 177 grain PRB can pentrate quite as well at the slow speed of that 240 grain conical.
The lighter the projectile, such as a round ball, the quicker that it loses energy as it travels downrange.
At least the slightly heavier conical has a better chance of doing more damage to a larger game animal.
IMO it would be better to be safe than sorry when it comes to hunting for a larger northern mule deer.

 
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I am confident with a 50 out to 100 yards, maybe further. I would suggest going to a silhouette range if one is nearby and shoot at different ranges and see what it's capable of taking down. I watched a fellow many years ago take a ram silhouette down with a T/C 54 shooting a maxiball at 500 yards. It took the ram down when he was able to hit it, it also took a while for the bullet to get there. My only mule deer with a muzzleloader was taken around 80 yards with a 50. I hit him between the eyes and it made mush outta everything inside his head. Remember that 100 yards is only 300 feet, it ain't that far.
 
I don't worship at the altar of super high power to kill deer. My centerfire load this year was a 30 cal cast bullet of 198 grains doing 1900 fps and a large does made it less than 25 yards. That said, a round balls loses velocity fast.

I may also have a chance at a muzzleloader elk tag, so conicals will be on the list to experiment with.
 
When I first became interested in a muzzleloader and figured .50 cal was about ideal I looked at a patched ball with a typical load on a ballistics calculator and wondered how it could be effective beyond maybe 50 yds as well. Many people on more modern styles of forums also said to use a sabot and modern bullet claiming the low sectional density/light weight and poor BC made them nearly worthless.

And then I began asking questions from those on traditional forums. There I found scores of people showing me that a ball within 75 yds is often found under the hide on the off side (broadside) and taking the deer down no differently than were it a modern rifle bullet (some DRT and some run maybe up to 50 yds). The ball has typically mushroomed, which is why it is found. After 75 yds it seems typical that the ball does not seem to mushroom and usually gives a complete pass through all the way out to 125 yds.

The bigger problems with shooting beyond 75 yds is that because it has such a poor BC value it can be pushed quite far by a little breeze. It actually doesn’t have too bad of a drop (the BC value of a .490” ball is 0.069 and weighs 177 grns. 1800 fps isn’t a heavy load. Run those numbers and you’ll see). As was mentioned the sights can make a longer shot hard to accurately place. Shooting from a solid rest is also a game changer, and I imagine those who are successful at longer ranges are using one of some sort.

I’m working on an accurate load for my .50 cal and as is 50 yds is about all I could count on. But I have a long way to go with many things to try. Patch thickness, lube, ball size, powder type, powder charge, etc. all play a big role.

There are a few guys who hunt elk with a .50 cal patched ball, but they keep their ranges much shorter. It is effective on them so there isn’t a need to use a bullet or conical for a mule deer. But you may just find your rifle shoots much better with one, and there certainly isn’t a problem using one over a ball.
 
I consider my BP rifles to be about double the range a good shot with a bow can do. A 40 yard shot with a bow is fine for the archer. So about 80-85 yards with a BP rifle and a RB is my rule. I have shot out to 150 yards and recovered the ball from a 50 caliber rifle. Its obvious that the energy had really fallen off at that range.

You can use the heavier conicals but you will need to readjust your sights from the RB setting. The trajectories are not the same after 50 yards.
 
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Got back into conventional muzzleloaders in 2012 after hunting with same in the 1960s-70s. Since 2013 I've killed about 10 deer and a few dozen wild hogs using .50 caliber and .54 caliber patched round balls. Wild hogs are often much more difficult to kill. Large boars shot in the lungs often run 200 yards or more. Also tried 320 and 370 grain .50 caliber conicals on hogs. IMO: Conicals performed no better on 200-300 pound hogs than patched round balls.

My problem is old eyes compounded by the fact that many conventional muzzleloaders have abysmal sights. Finally located a barrel with really good sights.

My shots are limited to 75 yards: The vast majority of kills were at ranges <50 yards. Patched round balls, when placed correctly, are deadly. There is little difference in effectiveness when compared to .308/.30-06. Patch round balls damage very little meat.
 
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I have a 50 cal TC Hawken coming my way with the idea that I might be able to get a muzzleloader tag next year. I like the idea of traditional round ball hunting, but as I look at published muzzle velocities and consider how fast energy drops off with a sphere in flight it seems like such a choice means effective hunting.

What is the twist rate of you new rifle, a slow twist (better for RB’s) or a fast twist capable of stabilizing the weight (length) of the conical bullet you choose?
 
You haven't even received your gun yet.
Even Hawkens can all shoot differently.
Once you experiment with different hunting loads of conicals, sabots, Powerbelts or PRB's, you'll find out which will give
the best and most reliable 1st shot accuracy & performance from a cold, clean barrel.
Then you can make your decision about which projectile will best suit your needs.
It all seems a long way off and theoretical at this point.
 
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You haven't even received your gun yet.
Even Hawkens can all shoot differently.
Once you experiment with different hunting loads of conicals, sabots, Powerbelts or PRB's, you'll find out which will give
the best and most reliable 1st shot accuracy & performance from a cold, clean barrel.
Then you can make your decision about which projectile will best suit your needs.
It all seems a long way off and theoretical at this point.

Could be. I usually read, research and ask a lot of question to prepare for trying something new. Part of the process for me.
 
I thoroughly understand.
However, without testing your gun with a PRB, the question about an ethical hunting distance with it can never be answered with any basis in reality.
It needs to be determined if your gun will be able to shoot PRB's with an adequate hunting load, and then compare that performance to other potential hunting loads.
 
I thoroughly understand.
However, without testing your gun with a PRB, the question about an ethical hunting distance with it can never be answered with any basis in reality.
It needs to be determined if your gun will be able to shoot PRB's with an adequate hunting load, and then compare that performance to other potential hunting loads.

Understood. My question was one of terminal performance rather than accuracy. The latter is up to the rifle and I.
 
I find it interesting that a .308 cal 170 grain bullet will do amazing damage at well over 100 yards while a 177 grn 50 cal ball can't seem to get out of its own way. Granted there is aerodynamics and speed at work here but the concept is the same. Personally I am quite comfortable taking a plus 100 yard shot with a PBR. I am also gonna be practical and pass on one over 200 yards. Take the rifle to the range, shoot it, figure out what it's capable of and draw your conclusions from that.
 
Understood. My question was one of terminal performance rather than accuracy. The latter is up to the rifle and I.

To expound a bit more, there's a good likelihood that your Hawken will shoot PRB's well since most do.
But it can be a journey to get there.
There's at least 2 different size balls to try, maybe 3-4 different patch thicknesses, several different powders, and possibly different caps depending on if you wanted to try a musket cap or 209 adapter.
There's not necessarily just one single path to finding the most accurate and powerful load for that 1st critical shot.
It could be that your gun would prefer 95 grains of Swiss powder and a musket cap, a .495 ball and an .018 patch for all that I know, just to be able to keep the 1st shot on a paper plate size target at 80 yards.
I'm just mentioning any old variables to find the most potent & accurate load, from which you can then develop some kind of a probability index for a successful 1st shot at a particular distance if all went as planned.

I'm not sure how all of the data can get quantified, but there still needs to be a basis in reality through trial & error testing that produces concrete results instead of just theory.
When people say that a PRB will kill a deer at 1oo yards no problem, there's a probability attached to that based on how your rifle actually performs.
And it's a journey just to get to that point to be able to contemplate taking that shot at all.

There's a flip side, which involves the possibility that your Hawken just won't shoot a PRB that far with adequate accuracy or power to make 100 yards an ethical shot.
It's based on your gun and load, not some computer program telling you that it's possible.
It about what's the most probable outcome with your gun and load when you pull the trigger.
It's fun to speculate about, but there needs to be some reality performance checks.
And that's not even considering the size, or standing/moving position of the deer as another variable.
What if a deer happens to move before the projectile arrives on target, then what?
 
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Wheeler Wildlife Refuge

36" Barrel .50 Cal Flintlock - 173 Grain Round Ball - 80 grains of ffg.

150 lb Doe
160 yards (Lazer Ranged)
Deer was hit in rear as it was going away. Ball penetrated near 2'. Deer dropped within 10 yards.

I'm not suggesting that shot but that tells me it has adequate penetration to at least 200 yards.

(Disclaimer: Not my deer. I wouldn't have taken that shot.)
 
In agree with your humble opinion. About a hundred yards is all I would take and closer is better. But I use a BP rifle so I can add a little more challenge to the hunt. Every deer I have killed except one was killed at 80 yards all the way down to 13 yards with all of my kills. The one lone exception was one deer at 250 yards with a 243.

I am more proud of being able to "Injun Up" on an animal as to snipe one at long range. I am more of a hunter than a shooter.
 
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