Explain the AR platform to me.

Freedom of choice mixed with the freedom to bear arms. Not only CAN you own one or more AR's, you are also free to reject them and own some other type of firearm. Or none.

fpgt72 said:

So troll why did you start this tread....well I was reading the explain Ruger #1 thread and the 45-70 thread (something that I own each of) and in the 45-70 thread there is a post of a...guess I will say replacement....for the 45-70 that you can shoot out of an AR platform....really....sorry guys but I see that as really stupid.

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That part is closer to being true than you might think. The round you are referring to is the 458 Socom. Its ballistics are identical to mid-level 45/70 loads, you can push a 405 gr at 1600 fps+ out of a 16" barrel in a semi-auto platform.

As far as the rest of your post and the other examples you gave, not everybody like the same thing. I love blue and wood guns but like the plastic ones too. I served in the Army so that is where I learned the AR. Is the the end all be all that some make it out to be, no. But it is a lot fun, lots of options, push 2 pins and switch calibers. Can be worked on, built by, and repaired by just about anyone with a little research.

Well, I agree with you insofar as the cosmetics of an AR are concerned. It is no beauty queen. But ARs do have a lot going for them. For one thing, at present they are cheap, as in inexpensive. Hard to find another semi-auto rifle that is as reliable and accurate for the price at which you can buy a new AR these days. And .223 Rem and 5.56x45 ammunition is also relatively inexpensive. Magazines are also widely available and inexpensive.

And when chambered in the usual caliber they are easy to shoot. The 5.56 cartridge does not have much kick anyway, and the straight in-line design of the AR mitigates what muzzle flip there is very well. An AR with a telescoping butt stock allows the carbine to be used easily be individuals of different sizes much easier than a wood stock rifle with a fixed length of pull. And it makes storage and transport a bit easier.

As for the aluminum and plastic, Eugene Stoner designed the AR10 and AR15 platforms specifically to be light in weight with their aluminum receivers and (originally) fiberglass furniture. That might not be that great an asset if you are just shooting at the range, but it certainly was for the guys who had to lug them around all day. And the light weight allowed more ammunition to be carried.

For me the appeal of an AR is practically and cost.

Each to his own. If I want a work of art I will buy a painting or similar. Firearms to me, are more akin to tools and/or toys. I use them and play with them I do not collect them for their artistic value. I understand others do and that is just fine, but simply not of value to me. I buy more used firearms simply because I save money and someone else has already put the first few scratches and dings in them for me.

IMHO The AR is a very functional and modular platform and so I make use of it for those reason. It is certainly not the only firearm type I own but I own several of them; each built for specific applications. As for 45/70 performance in the AR platform in addition to 458 SOCOM don't forget 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf also produce 45/70 type performance and are also designed for the AR-15 platform like the 458 SOCOM was.


This is the rifle that will be in the deer stand with me tomorrow morning for the opening of Tennessee deer season. 20-inch 450 Bushmaster upper on an old DPMS lower. I will be pushing 275gr Barnes TSX bullet to ~1900fps.

I'm an old fart couldn't help it and bought my first` AR this year. I guess my fascination with the "platform" is you can make it the way you want ,it's kinda like a 10-22 on steroids a 30-22.

There is no explanation for it. It exists, like oatmeal and the universe.

Cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, reliable, effective, modular, omnipresent parts, ammo, and accessories.

I was raised on the Garand, and was late to the AR party, but I can't deny their practicality.

Still don't own any plastic handguns doe!

It's dirt cheap, lends itself to modifications, is easy to work on, and the ATF decided the lower was the rifle, that's some of why it's so popular.

Just like the reliability issues in its debut became a myth that followed it for decades, currently myths of how wonderful and how much better than any other rifle AR's are is being preached.

The fact is, the ergonomics are marginally better than its contemporaries at best(to say nothing of newer designs), the triggers are good, the rifle is light weight, and has low recoil.

You can do a lot better than an AR these days, but people love cheap guns, and at $500, the AR does a pretty good job, and from there, pride of ownership takes over and they get put on a pedestal.

I see ARs and Glock-a-likes as utilitarian tools. They just work. They do their respective jobs very well, and they don't have to look pretty to do it. A 1911 or SAA is much nicer-looking than a Glock. A Trapdoor Springfield is prettier than an AR in .458 SOCOM. But, I wouldn't strap a Trapdoor on the back of a four-wheeler, or have it slung on my back for a deer drive through heavy brush. I appreciate the more utilitarian firearms for the abuse that they can take, and their ability to adapt to different roles. I appreciate walnut and bluing for aescetics, nostalgia, and "showing off". There is room in the world for both, even if there isn't room in every safe. Freedom to like what you want, even if others don't, is what makes this country and hobby so great.

The AR15 certainly doesn’t tug at my heartstrings like many other firearms do. I can’t even say I enjoy shooting mine. However, I feel strongly that it’s my civic duty to own one, as well as a healthy stock of magazines and ammo for it.

The are very compact and handy, can be very accurate, are a tremendously good hunting rifle, and you can build and rebuild them yourself on your kitchen table to be just how you like them. Lots of stocks, lots or forends, lots of sights, infinite barrel length and caliber choices, even left hand and side charging upper receivers.

I will say I really do not like the standard carbines with plastic forends, collapsing stocks and rear charging handle, and springy buffer tubes. They really do nothing for me. I was a detractor of the whole platform until I built a couple just to challenge my own predudice and I found what people like about them. If you don’t agree that’s fine too. These are my 3 side charging AR’s. I have another lower not pictured, and I am building another side charging upper in a new caliber and a side charging AR10 as well. It took much parts swapping to get there but I’ve corrected everything I don’t like about the standard AR carbine and these to me are the semi auto rifle perfected. Probably wouldn’t be to others but that’s the beauty of it.

I don't base my self defense tools on how much "class" they have. There was a time in history where the 1903 was the newfangled hot ticket and I'm sure someone out there was bemoaning it's lack of class compared to the gorgeous 1861 revolver. But, there's a reason firearms have evolved from single shot pistols to Glock. I still enjoy the old firearms for their aesthetics and historical appeal, and I also respect that they are still deadly, and once in awhile I like to bring them to the range or out hunting, but when it's my life that's at stake I want the best.

fpgt72 said:

But past that, why are people so married to the AR platform....I just do not get it.

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Some of us have a LOT of experience with the military version of the AR. Why let that training and muscle memory go to waste? (Even though I did for 20 years after I got out. It's like riding a bike, though. ) Most states allow hunting with it, and in competent hands, it is an excellent deer rifle.

For those who don't have military experience, it's modularity and ability to switch calibers by switching uppers (and maybe bolts) is handy, some just like the looks, ( I know, right ? ) some like to own something like what they use in Call of Duty, some choose it for it's low recoil and adjustable stock for a smaller shooter, and many other reasons.

fpgt72 said:

Really the only reason I think the platform is so popular is two reasons....a little like the 10/22 it allows people to play pretend gunsmith and screw one together and chances are they will not blow themselves up, and it is the tacticool factor.

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Again, some of us don't have to pretend. I was an Armorer with a Secondary Military Specialty of Small Arms Repair. I could build them in my sleep. But yes, it is nice that the fact they are easy to put together attracts interest in them-anything that gets people out to the range and shooting, even if it's the droves of 20-somethings I see with their M4gerys that struggle to keep them on paper-that's good, too. As for tacticool, if it gets people shooting, even if they look like fools doing it, still good.

fpgt72 said:

....for the 45-70 that you can shoot out of an AR platform....really....sorry guys but I see that as really stupid.

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It was developed for a very specific purpose.

otrman said:

The round you are referring to is the 458 Socom.

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As mentioned, that purpose was a gun that could shoot a hard-hitting round supressed for sentry elimination and such duties, hence the SOCOM moniker. Civilian shooters found it made a good short-range deer gun, and great hog gun. The 300 Blackout was developed for the same original purpose, and again, in civilian guise, works well for deer and hogs.

Not my job. I've already said more than I should.

I own a few--all Colt's--all are set up and good to go and rarely shot----I have them mainly for "just in case"----you know, SHTF--economic collapse--or a possible civil war. GTG=ammo--mags--Aimpoints etc....

I'm not enthralled with them but do see their utility and function----I shoot my pistols, shotguns and .22's more.

I have them because you never know and better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

i can and have casually shot a 5.5lb rifle effectively at 400 yards. I can carry it on a ten mile uphill walk with 80 rounds and barely feel it, it was cheaper than a bolt action that can shoot as well. 19c/round. I can convert it to 22 in 30 seconds, and have a 22 rifle that is more reliable than any other 22 I have shot, and nearly as accurate. mine has the A2 hoop so its very easy to carry, even if it is "wrong"

Why are there Glock moonies? Why are there SIG moonies? S&W? Ruger? Single-actions? 1911's? The list goes on.

To each his own, and since this is America we have that luxury.

The Glock is a fantastic pistol. I don't own one, probably never will... it's just not for me. You may sub in any number of other very good semi-auto pistols in that statement.

I am not a big revolver guy... in fact, I've sold most of mine off. I think the 4" Smith N-Frame is one of the most aesthetically pleasing firearms ever built... I have 2. I don't shoot them very much... as I said, I'm not a big revolver guy. There are probably people out there that do not own a semi-auto, preferring revolvers. Good for them.

I own 5 AR's. I trained on them when I was in the Army. Not only are they a proven rifle platform, they are extraordinarily useful in any number of configurations, and now with more and more cartridge availability, even more usefullerer... Name me another platform that is adaptable as the AR. It's easy to shoot. It's easy to shoot well. It's easy to train people to shoot with the AR. Parts and ammo are everywhere. Accessories abound. Rifles, carbines, pistols, semi-auto, full-auto, .22cal, .45cal. I think there was even a .50BMG upper available at one time (single-shot, of course.) Close quarters to the 1000yd line. Scopes, dots, irons, lasers.

You say you don't understand the popularity of the AR, I submit to you that you are not really being honest with yourself. Like the Glock that I don't care for, I willingly admit it's a marvel of manufacturing that ushered in the era of poly pistols, a design so good that it is still with us umpteen years later.

What I don't get is the continued questioning as to why they are popular.

What is not to like about:

1. Extreme competition and economies of scale reducing the prices on parts and rifles
2. Advanced technology (metallurgy, designs, ergonomics) due to extreme market share that can spread the R&D over a broad spectrum of consumers
3. Excellent design of the gas system that provides unparalleled access to clean and observe wear points
4. Linear recoil that allows shooters of lessor stature to be able to handle and control
5. Materials used are highly resistant to corrosion and rust
6. Parts availability are second to none; and by that I mean down to the individual detent spring, allowing for one to keep a rifle running in perpetuity from one's garage or basement.
7. Market size allowing for various other calibers and wildcats to be designed and implemented because of how cheap it is to buy another upper.
8. There has been extreme amounts of testing and real world experiences that have improved the design.
9. They are highly modular that anyone can make them fit themselves.
10. Ease of mounting optics
11. Cheap to shoot in various calibers (5.56, 7.62x39, 9mm, .22lr., etc.)
12. Powerful at shorter ranges (.458 SOCOM, .450 Bushmaster, 50 Beowulf, etc)
13. Long range performance (6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC II, .224 Valkyrie)
14. Good hunting performance with intermediate ranges (6.8 SPC II, 6.5 Grendel)
15. It provides the citizenry with the same ergos and design (minus some attributes) as our military which allows for a faster training of military once they get in if they have used an AR growing up.
16. Can be lightweight all the way up to bench rest.
17. Inherently accurate due to design.
18. It's AMERICAN and IT WILL BE WHERE THE FIGHT IS TAKEN ON GUN RIGHTS!

I could go on but maybe a better question to ask is why do people have such a hard time embracing the AR, especially in the gun owner world?

I could ask the same of those who like black powder firearms. I just don't get the interest in the dirty, slow loading, less accurate firearm that is BP? I don't feel this way, as I think BP firearms are enjoyable in their own right.

I own many different types of firearms: bolt, lever, single shot, semi-auto, pump, revolver, etc.; but due to the brief incomplete list above, the AR has established it's place into the firearm world. What other rifle can you go down and buy individual springs and detents for at your local sporting goods? Or have a rifle that can adjust from adult to child in seconds?

I don't even consider myself a fanboy, but they are very high on my list of firearms for their abilities.

shafter said:

I don't base my self defense tools on how much "class" they have. There was a time in history where the 1903 was the newfangled hot ticket and I'm sure someone out there was bemoaning it's lack of class compared to the gorgeous 1861 revolver. But, there's a reason firearms have evolved from single shot pistols to Glock. I still enjoy the old firearms for their aesthetics and historical appeal, and I also respect that they are still deadly, and once in awhile I like to bring them to the range or out hunting, but when it's my life that's at stake I want the best.

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Indeed! Just look at how our own US armed forces fought change time and time again as newer and more effective arms where challenging the "ol' standbys" that the people from the previous wars counted on. From the switch from trapdoor Springfields to Krags to 1903's to M1 Garands to M-14 to M-16 to M-4, it played out the same way almost every time.

I'm no fight-to-the-death-fanboy, but the AR is the only gun I own that can go from a dedicated .22 lr to 5.56x45 to 7.62x39 for under 450 bucks total with a couple of 2-minute upper/magazine swaps. (It could do a LOT more, including being transformed into a pistol, but these are the calibers I personally have.) I can think of nothing else designed that comes close to such endless variety and versatility... unless you're shooting a switch-barrel single shot like a Contender/Encore.

Mine are truly tools, never abused but used, and certainly don't have the eye appeal of the walnut/blued guns that they reside with in the safe.
But again, those guns are single-caliber designs and none can morph like the AR's do.

Stay safe!

I totally understand the reason they're popular. They're cheap and fun, in 223/5.56 they're cheap to shoot, they look tactical, and they're easy to customize. I don't own one because 223/5.56 isn't a useful caliber for my purposes, and I already own bolt or lever guns in calibers that are useful to me so a larger caliber AR would be superfluous. Every time I've thought about buying a 223/5.56 just for fun, I come back to the reality that the 9mm and 22 firearms I already own are also fun and cheaper to feed.

After WW1, EVERYBODY who could afford a 1903 Springfield bought one. It was the thing to do. It was also a fine rifle.

After WW2, everybody wanted an M-1 Garand. It was the thing to have. Also a fine rifle

Today, it's the AR. Also a fine rifle.

If a cperson wants a rifle to hang over the mantle and admire as a piece of art, he buys a Sako, Weatherby, CZ etc.

If he wants a shooter to throw in the back of his pickup, he buys an AR.

Different people have different tastes. If someone gave me a rifle with deep blue metal and fine Walnut, I would send it to McMillan for a good synthetic stock and have the metal phosphated.

You like blue steel and Walnut. I like fibreglass and phosphate.

You pays yer money and you takes yer pick.

taliv said:

what rifle is more ergonomic than the AR15?

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Ok, you got me, I don't have much hands on experience with many modern designs, but I do have some experience with AUG's, and unless shooting from the opposite shoulder is a necessity for you, its hands down better ergo's than an AR. The Tavor SAR, is also more natural, and can be shot from either shoulder if thats a requirement.

To be honest, I'm just bitter. I've read for years how the AR is so ergonomic, and now that I finally broke down and got one, it simply does not meet the hype in that aspect. If you trained and fought with one, I understand you gain a keen familiarity with the rifle, and for those who like it, more power to ya, but unlike the internet would have you believe, the AR ergo's are not in fact the best thing since sliced bread.