Sig Made in Germany vs Frame made in Germany

OK, I'm no expert, but I've owned a bunch of SIGs and will take a stab at an answer. First gun has a frame made in Germany. Not at all unusual. One of my current SIGs, manufactured in '95, has a frame made in Germany, and no German proof marks on the "chin" of the slide. Another '95 gun I have was actually built in Germany and has German proof marks. No German proof marks would indicate to me that both guns were actually assembled in the united states. The word "Stainless" used to appear on the one piece machined stainless slides. Since they have all been stainless for years now, the word may not appear on the slide anymore. Some of the slides are blackened, but still stainless. So I think you're looking at two made in USA SIGs that may have some German parts......

I know all the SIG-o-philes love the made in Germany guns, but from a non-passionate outside observer, I would not want a pistol with a stamped slide and pinned in breach face, which is what the non-stainless steel slides are.

I get quality control has gone down hill since SIG moved production to the US, but I (a non-SIG guy) would prefer a milled stainless steel slide and an external extractor, especially with a P220.

P220's with stainless steel slides (nearly all are black Nitron coated) and internal extractors are known problem guns.

Grayguns internal extractor replacement https://grayguns.com/sig-sauer-p-220-x-5-internal-extractor-2/

rduchateau2954 said:

Ouch, seems more research is in order. Both guns have internal extractors. If that's a $200 fix I'm not saving any money.

This kind of info is exactly what I was looking for, thanks guys.

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The internal extractor issue was with the milled stainless slides. The old folded steel slide with the internal extractor have a good reputation.

JTQ said:

I know all the SIG-o-philes love the made in Germany guns, but from a non-passionate outside observer, I would not want a pistol with a stamped slide and pinned in breach face, which is what the non-stainless steel slides are.

I get quality control has gone down hill since SIG moved production to the US, but I (a non-SIG guy) would prefer a milled stainless steel slide and an external extractor, especially with a P220.

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I would take a internal extractor carbon steel built in German over any Exter made P220. They are better balanced then the stainless steel slide. The internal extractor never had any issues until they put it into the stainless steel slide of the original ST models.

They tried to fix it but they could so they went with the external which also have them some level of parts commonality.

JTQ said:

P220's with stainless steel slides (nearly all are black Nitron coated) and internal extractors are known problem guns.

Greyguns internal extractor replacement https://grayguns.com/sig-sauer-p-220-x-5-internal-extractor-2/

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Used to really like and respect Mr Gray but since the P320 issues and how he handled it i will never buy anothe Grey guns part or gun.

It is also my understanding that the Gray guns extractor is not 100%.

Agree with 9mmepiphany's post above. I also have each variation, and have never had issues with either, though I prefer the clean look, weight and balance of the W. German version.

Also, I'm not sure why the hostility toward Mr. Gray. While he's made a few comments about other manufacturers' guns that I don't always agree with, he's always come across as a straight-shooter, and certainly wasn't part of any "cover-up" or obfuscation with regard to the 320's problems as some seem to think.

9mmepiphany said:

The 220 marked "Stainless" has a stainless slide, while one marked "Made in Germany" is a late production model with a stamped/folded slide...an earlier "German" 220 would be marked "Made in W Germany"

The German slides are stamped out from thick plate steel and then folded into a "U" shape. The front and rear pieces are then welded to that. The breech block is then fitted and pinned into place with two roll pins. The stainless slides will have a solid pin in that position.

Given that the folded slide 220 is known for it's reliable function and some of the American manufactured milled slide 220 experienced extraction issues with the internal extractor, between the two I'd go with the German manufactured one. I don't personally have a bias between the two as I own examples of both.

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I have an all German made stainless steel frame, and stainless steel milled slide SIG, with the internal extractor in .40 S&W. (P226 X5) Has worked just fine so far. By far the most accurate .40 S&W I have owned or shot. Fit and finish of the X5 makes it a very different animal than any other SIG I’ve owned though.

Old Dog said:

Agree with 9mmepiphany's post above. I also have each variation, and have never had issues with either, though I prefer the clean look, weight and balance of the W. German version.

Also, I'm not sure why the hostility toward Mr. Gray. While he's made a few comments about other manufacturers' guns that I don't always agree with, he's always come across as a straight-shooter, and certainly wasn't part of any "cover-up" or obfuscation with regard to the 320's problems as some seem to think.

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Yes he was. He was one of the biggest voices initially that claimed that the drop issue was not real. He even suggested at one point with no evidence that the videos showing the P320 didcharging when dropped were fake.

Once it was admitted and proven to be true he faded into the background of the discussion.

9mmepiphany said:

Bruce spells his last name Gray and the name of the company is Grayguns Inc.

You are entittled to your perception of how the issue with the P320 was handled and how you choose to spend your money. I'd just like to say that in the 20+ years that I've known and taught with him that his is likely the most honorable man I've ever met...his honesty is actually disturbing, luckily it is tempered by empathy


I've had a chance to shoot about a half dozen of the modified 220s and didn't experience any bobbles...they are all test fired before leaving the shop..., but anything is possible; luckily his work comes with a lifetime warranty

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Auto correct changed it to Grey. Again you and I see it differently. In my personal experience with Mr Gray has been uneven. I loved his work and have owned several of his pistols over the years. They gave all since been sold.

In my experience his relationship with Sig clouds his judgement and alters what he is willing to say in public about a Sig product. I had long conversations about the internal extractor with he and Sig back when the issues were exploded. His relationship with Sig IMHO caused him to backdown and back track on statements he made to me about the internal extractor design. Clearly your long term relationship with him yields a different opinion but I know what went down.

As to the internal extractor I believe ones installed by Gray Guns are reliable. There was a time IIRC that he sold them to the general public. People had trouble installing and fitting them. Maybe I am rembering it incorrectly.

rduchateau2954 said:

I've been looking at Sig 220's and have two options. Both used.

First is in sightly better condition, $50 more. Markings are "Sig arms Exeter NH Frame made in Germany" and "Stainless" although the only stainless I can see is the takedown pin.

Second is marked "Made in Germany" on the slide and on the other side of the slide " Sig Sauer Exeter NH"

Neither gun has any German proofs.

Sig guys, what an I looking at here?

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Love both my stamped slide P220s. One is German proofed (in 9mm no less), the other US assembled from German parts (.45).

Also have the stamped 226 and p6. Highly recommend an older SIG.

The American made P220's, the slide is machined from a block of steel. I consider this a superior manufacturing technique. Around the turn of last century, everything was machined from forgings or bar stock, and on single stage machinery. This is expensive. God awful expensive. The Germans advanced sheet metal manufacturing technology and did a great job, post WW2 there are a number of stamped firearm designs. The AK47 used stampings, so does the G11 rifle. But, the semi conductor revolution sure made the earth wobble on its axis. Manufacturing technology today is just amazing, and it is obviously cheaper to just mill the parts out from bar stock, like they used to do in 1900, except, no humans are operating single stage machines.