Went to a rental range on the weekend

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
45
So I have been wondering for a long time what kind of handguns I would like to own. I have also been lurking on here for a long time reading about people's experiences with different handguns. I found out there was a rental range in Vancouver called DVC Ventures. So I stopped reading and went out to try them for real this past weekend. I have a summary at the bottom of this post for those that are short on time.

The Long Version:
Just for a bit of background, I am not experienced with handguns at all. I trained with a Sig 9mm a couple of times in the military, fired my friend's Jericho 941 and TT33, as well as a Glock 22 40 S&W. But I have never had any consistent practice with anything. It has also been about a year since I have shot anything.

I was only planning on renting a full-size 1911 and a 6" .357 Magnum. However, they also rented .44 Magnums. I wanted to wait and see what the 357 was like first before renting that monstrosity. Since I wanted to try bigger calibers, I was not expecting to shoot well with any of these and was wondering what the recoil and blast would actually be like. After I was given a brief safety tutorial, I was paired up with an instructor and went to the range. All of my targets were about 15 feet away. Below are the guns I shot in the order that I shot them in.

Remington R1 1911 5" Full Size
45ACP
50 Rounds
Blazer Brass 230 grain FMJ

I was really surprised at how much the gun jumped in my hand. I was expecting it to be milder since it is a full size service handgun. It always seemed to jump out of my weak hand no matter how strong my grip was. But it was definitely manageable and I eventually got used to the kick. What surprised me even more was how small my groups were. They were grouped together so tight it became one hole. Unfortunately the next magazine didn't work very well. I loaded another 10 round mag in and pulled the slide back to release it. Then I experienced a jam. The shell was not going into the chamber. So I cleared it and tried again. On the second try the same thing happened but we couldn't get the magazine or the shell out. So we switched to another Remington R1 that was blued with a black grip. We used the other 10 round magazine. Jammed again!! The instructor was totally dumbfounded. Fortunately we were able to get the 10 rounder out and switched to the 7 round magazines. Zero problems after that. As far as feel goes, I would say that the recoil of the 1911 took some getting used to since the muzzle flips up quite a bit. It beat up the palm of my hand a bit too. My palm was red when I was finished.

S&W 686 International 6"
357 Magnum/38 Special
25 Rounds/25 Rounds
Blazer Brass 158 Grain JSP (357) and 125 Grain FMJ (38)

Before doing anything, the instructor gave me some coaching on how to properly grip the revolver. I LOVED how big and heavy the 686 was. I also liked the manual of arms of the revolver better. I have short stubby thumbs so I had an easier time reaching the cylinder release. I have always struggled to reach the mag release on semi-autos. It was strangely satisfying loading the shells in one at a time too. So then came the moment where I was aiming and squeezing the trigger (double-action only). As I expected, the trigger was really heavy. Despite that, I liked how smooth it was. I noticed that the first half of the trigger pull was heavy but got lighter the further I went. Then I encountered that final 'wall' before the sear breaks. Then....BOOM! The 686 didn't flip up was much as the 1911 did but came straight back instead. The recoil was definitely stronger and more brisk than the 1911. But the 686 didn't leave my grip though. It never felt like it was getting away from me. I definitely noticed the blast as well. It was definitely louder than the 45 and the other guns firing in the other lanes. There was a bit of an orange flash and I could feel the concussion wave hitting my face. To my surprise it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. On the contrary, I liked the blast lol The only gripe that I had was the trigger guard was hitting the knuckle on my middle finger. But I figured that it was just a matter of practicing more. My groups with the 357s ended up being really good. The 38 specials were really easy to shoot. Since they had so much less recoil, I shot them faster. So my groups with the 38 specials were not as good as the 357s. At this point, my trigger finger was starting to get fatigued so I am sure this contributed to the groups opening up. Overall, the 686 is an outstanding revolver! It felt like it was made for me when I picked it up. Below is a picture of my results.


S&W M629 Classic 6.5"
44 Magnum
25 Rounds
Remington 180 Grain JSP (1600 fps!)

So after finishing up with the 686, the instructor asked if I wanted to try something else or call it a day. While my trigger finger was getting a break, I decided that I wasn't done yet. So I checked out the S&W M629 Classic 6.5" 44 Magnum full-under lug with rubber grips. The ammunition was 25 rounds of Remington green/white box 180 grain JSP at about 1600 fps. Pretty hot stuff! I think at this point I had more cause for concern about the recoil/blast. I went into this fully expecting my groups to be terrible. I didn't care though. I really needed to satisfy my curiosity lol I have had a strange fascination with this cartridge ever since I watched Dirty Harry as a kid. So anyways...I loaded up the cylinder and did everything the same as when I was shooting the 686. I knew this thing was going to be a handful. But I concentrated on my sight alignment and trigger control. I don't think I have ever been this focused. I hit that wall in the trigger pull again. Then all I saw was a giant bloom of white flash. Then the sound of the blast rocked the entire room. There is no way I can put into words the experience of that gun going off. HOLY S&^%. It reminded me of the days when I was working on the 57mm gun on the frigate. Another thing I noticed was that all the other shooters in the room had stopped. No surprise there. I'm sure it is hard to shoot with a cannon like that going off next to you. The blast and recoil was definitely intense, but it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. The gun was very manageable and never felt like it was getting away from me. I actually made it through all 25 rounds. When I was firing the second cylinder, I had to use my left and right trigger fingers because my right didn't have any strength left. It is like when you have been bench pressing a bunch of sets and can't lift the weight no matter how hard you try. That is what my right trigger finger felt like. I actually shot some pretty good groups with this monster.

Summary:

I was really surprised by how well I shot all three guns, especially the revolvers on double action. My groups were mainly 1"-2.5" at 15' away. All my groups ended up slightly left of my point of aim. 1911: I got the best groups with this. Found this beat my hand up the most believe it or not. Also, I felt like it was getting away from me no matter how firm my grip was. 686: Shot pretty good groups considering that it was my first time shooting a double action revolver. The bark and recoil didn't bother me as much as I expected it would. My trigger finger started to get fatigued after 50 rounds. Trigger guard was hitting the knuckle on my middle finger a few times but it wasn't too bad. 629: Amazing gun! Considering how much blast and kick this gun had, I shot groups that were almost identical to the 1911 (I had to use both my left and right fingers for the trigger pull though since my right finger was done for at this point). Definitely a ferocious gun but it was much more manageable than I was expecting.

Overall, this was such a fun trip and was well worth it. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting all the guns. It answered a lot of questions that I have been asking myself for a long time. Considering how restrictive handgun ownership in Canada is, I consider myself lucky that I have had a chance to be exposed to so many different handguns. At this juncture, I think I am leaning toward revolvers more. They just feel right in my hands and I like their manual of arms better. I think a 357 and a 44 Magnum are in my future lol
 

Attachments

  • Remington R1 45ACP Groups.JPG
    Remington R1 45ACP Groups.JPG
    197.8 KB · Views: 51
  • S&W 686 International 357 Magnum Groups.JPG
    S&W 686 International 357 Magnum Groups.JPG
    234.5 KB · Views: 51
  • S&W 629 Classic 44 Magnum Groups.JPG
    S&W 629 Classic 44 Magnum Groups.JPG
    209.9 KB · Views: 52
Last edited:
Interesting post. Have you shot a .22? Yes very puny compared to a .44 Magnum, but a good caliber to learn the basics of shooting and inexpensive. When I got into handgun shooting in the late 1960s it was typical to start new shooters with a .22. As far as a revolver you got to fire the S&W 686 which is one of the best. Being a .357 Magnum you can shoot .38 special, a caliber most of us shoot in their .357s for the comfort of lower recoil and less noise. Hope you pursue your new interest.
 
Congratulations on a fun and successful outing. Be aware that 15’ is rather close and tight groups would be expected for anyone having any talent at all. Barring a fear factor/flinching response the effect of a heavy recoil is mainly in your ability to QUICKLY follow up with the next shot accurately on target, not your ability to shoot a tight group at a leisure pace.

You really should try a 9 mm semi-auto. That is the sweet spot for easy handling and good self-defense performance.
 
Last edited:
I have also been lurking on here for a long time
Welcome to the horde!
I was really surprised at how much the gun jumped in my hand.
A 45 will definitely let you know you are shooting big bullets, especially with hot loads. That slide cycling can surprise you. However, practicing can mitigate that, or perhaps a different cartridge or model gun. Firm grip with your strong hand, very firm grip with your support hand, and thumbs forward technique really mitigate muzzle rise and get you back on target faster. There are a lot of YouTube videos by champion shooters you should look up.
They were grouped together so tight it became one hole.
Even a crappy 1911 trigger is usually pretty easy to shoot at those distances. The inherent design usually just works for people. I took my sister shooting and of the 3 or 4 guns she shot, she liked the 1911 best. It doesn't surprise me you shot the gun well and liked the trigger.
As I expected, the trigger was really heavy. Despite that, I liked how smooth it was.
I started out on revolvers, and I found that if you can learn to shoot DA revolver triggers reasonably well, most other triggers seem fairly easy. Not that I'm an expert in any way, nor am I a champion shooter. But I find I can pick up most any handgun and get on target with it pretty quickly.
The only gripe that I had was the trigger guard was hitting the knuckle on my middle finger. But I figured that it was just a matter of practicing more.
One thing that I very often hear from people getting into handguns, and especially revolvers is that they are getting beat up by the recoil in some way, and the middle knuckle thing is not uncommon. It's very easy to ignore grip fit to your hand. The 686 has a ton of after market grips available, and choosing one that fits you well can make a world of difference in shooting comfort and accuracy. I find Nill Grips to work really well for me, and since they are less than half the cost of a true custom grip, I am very content.
View media item 95These are my two 686's and the Nill grips they wear.

Link to dealer: http://mactecsales.com/

If you go the revolver route, and it sounds like you will, I highly recommend you asses how the gun fits your hand after you buy it, and consider a grip that really fits you. There are less expensive grips out there, but what I like about Nill is they have size options for L frame guns, and options with closed backstraps. However, they will never be as good as a full custom grip. I have larger hands, and need a larger grip to fill my hands, and help me get a proper trigger reach.

Too large of a grip can be a real problem too.

Overall, the 686 is an outstanding revolver! It felt like it was made for me when I picked it up.
That seems a really good option then. There is a 5" barrel version available. I know you need at least a 4.2" barrel, correct?

Pretty hot stuff!
Indeed, but light for caliber bullets. A heavier bullet at moderate velocities would likely be easier to shoot and result in better penetration in real world use.
Then the sound of the blast rocked the entire room. There is no way I can put into words the experience of that gun going off. HOLY S&^%.
Shooting a 44 mag indoors can be quite unpleasant and extremely distracting to other shooters, but it's good training for them to ignore outside distractions. I remember a time I was at an indoor range and a guy pulled out a Ruger Red Hawk in 45 Colt. He was a hunter and loaded some Ruger only loads. He popped one off, and the entire range went silent and looked his way. I was in between shooting strings and had nothing in my hands, so I threw my hands up in the air and yelled "Yaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!" in a voice just loud enough for people to hear me through their hearing protection. Everyone started laughing and a few people had to put their guns down. In hind sight, it was funny, but I shouldn't have done that. We don't need antics while people are handling hot guns. None the less, that 45 really woke everyone up. Ruger only 45 Colt loads are every bit as potent as 44 mag loads can be.

If you ever have the chance to try a 460 magnum OUTDOORS, you should. It's a real hoot.
View media item 50View media item 49
Overall, this was such a fun trip and was well worth it. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting all the guns. It answered a lot of questions that I have been asking myself for a long time. Considering how restrictive handgun ownership in Canada is, I consider myself lucky that I have had a chance to be exposed to so many different handguns. At this juncture, I think I am leaning toward revolvers more. They just feel right in my hands and I like their manual of arms better. I think a 357 and a 44 Magnum are in my future lol
I'm glad you had such a positive experience. Handgun shooting is a wonderful sport and such a practical life skill, and revolvers are wonderful to shoot for so many different reasons. It's really nice not chasing brass too if you are a handloader or reloader.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to the fun, Scubaexplorer.

What you encountered with the 1911 magazines is a very good lesson should you decide to get a 1911. Buy quality magazines. Magazines can be the biggest problem with 1911’s.

You picked 2 good revolvers to try out. What 460Shooter said was what I was going to say so I won’t belabor it.

Good grips make a world of difference and they do not have to be expensive. I use Pachmayr grips on my S&W model 19 and you can find those on line, and in Canada, for $25-30.

Speaking of model 19, these have a slightly smaller frame than the 686. S&W has released a new model 19 with a 4.2” barrel (legal for Canada). If you get a chance you should shoot one of these as well.

Good luck and happy shooting. :)
 
Finding a gun that fits you well and practicing a lot will make a huge difference in your abilities. I remember when going to the range and shooting would fatigue my finger and even forearm. Last weekend I put 300 rounds downrange in about an hour and don't even think about those things any more. The recoil from the 1911's even become normal after a little couple practice sessions.

The S&W 686 is a great gun for beginners and experienced shooters. The ability to shoot light 38 Special loads and the powerful Magnum loads offers versatility that no auto-loader can match.
 
The S&W 686 is a great gun for beginners and experienced shooters. The ability to shoot light 38 Special loads and the powerful Magnum loads offers versatility that no auto-loader can match.
I agree, with the exception of the 10mm cartridge. If you load your own or buy from small ammo firms you can really see a huge versatility based on velocities and bullet weights. I see loads with 115 gr to 230 gr bullets. Reasonable low power loads for plinking and nuclear loads are all possible with the 10mm.

However, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to a new handgun shooter.
 
Welcome to the horde!

A 45 will definitely let you know you are shooting big bullets, especially with hot loads. That slide cycling can surprise you. However, practicing can mitigate that, or perhaps a different cartridge or model gun. Firm grip with your strong hand, very firm grip with your support hand, and thumbs forward technique really mitigate muzzle rise and get you back on target faster. There are a lot of YouTube videos by champion shooters you should look up.

Even a crappy 1911 trigger is usually pretty easy to shoot at those distances. The inherent design usually just works for people. I took my sister shooting and of the 3 or 4 guns she shot, she liked the 1911 best. It doesn't surprise me you shot the gun well and liked the trigger.

I started out on revolvers, and I found that if you can learn to shoot DA revolver triggers reasonably well, most other triggers seem fairly easy. Not that I'm an expert in any way, nor am I a champion shooter. But I find I can pick up most any handgun and get on target with it pretty quickly.

One thing that I very often hear from people getting into handguns, and especially revolvers is that they are getting beat up by the recoil in some way, and the middle knuckle thing is not uncommon. It's very easy to ignore grip fit to your hand. The 686 has a ton of after market grips available, and choosing one that fits you well can make a world of difference in shooting comfort and accuracy. I find Nill Grips to work really well for me, and since they are less than half the cost of a true custom grip, I am very content.
View media item 95These are my two 686's and the Nill grips they wear.

Link to dealer: http://mactecsales.com/

If you go the revolver route, and it sounds like you will, I highly recommend you asses how the gun fits your hand after you buy it, and consider a grip that really fits you. There are less expensive grips out there, but what I like about Nill is they have size options for L frame guns, and options with closed backstraps. However, they will never be as good as a full custom grip. I have larger hands, and need a larger grip to fill my hands, and help me get a proper trigger reach.

Too large of a grip can be a real problem too.


That seems a really good option then. There is a 5" barrel version available. I know you need at least a 4.2" barrel, correct?


Indeed, but light for caliber bullets. A heavier bullet at moderate velocities would likely be easier to shoot and result in better penetration in real world use.

Shooting a 44 mag indoors can be quite unpleasant and extremely distracting to other shooters, but it's good training for them to ignore outside distractions. I remember a time I was at an indoor range and a guy pulled out a Ruger Red Hawk in 45 Colt. He was a hunter and loaded some Ruger only loads. He popped one off, and the entire range went silent and looked his way. I was in between shooting strings and had nothing in my hands, so I threw my hands up in the air and yelled "Yaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!" in a voice just loud enough for people to hear me through their hearing protection. Everyone started laughing and a few people had to put their guns down. In hind sight, it was funny, but I shouldn't have done that. We don't need antics while people are handling hot guns. None the less, that 45 really woke everyone up. Ruger only 45 Colt loads are every bit as potent as 44 mag loads can be.

If you ever have the chance to try a 460 magnum OUTDOORS, you should. It's a real hoot.
View media item 50View media item 49
I'm glad you had such a positive experience. Handgun shooting is a wonderful sport and such a practical life skill, and revolvers are wonderful to shoot for so many different reasons. It's really nice not chasing brass too if you are a handloader or reloader.

I have fired a Sig 9mm and a Jericho 941 before. I know some people say that 9mm has lighter recoil. Maybe it was the guns I was shooting, but I honestly didn't notice a difference compared to the 45. I was surprised by the 45 initially because I somehow got the idea that the 45 would be milder since it is going slower. The thumbs forward technique is what I was doing when shooting the 1911. When I was shooting the revolver, I was doing something different. I had my strong thumb on the left side of the grip, and the weak thumb on top of the strong thumb. The second one seemed to be the most comfortable position for me.

Yes I like the idea of becoming proficient with a double action so I could pick up any other handgun and shoot it well.

You are correct about the barrel length. Restricted firearms have to have a barrel length of at least 105mm. This would be a non-issue for me since this will be a range toy and I actually prefer the 6" barrel.

I checked out that link to the Nill grips. Those are pretty nice. I wonder if going full custom would be a better way to go. I have no idea what grips would work well. That company you cited doesn't accept returns unless they make a mistake so I need to make sure the grips are good from the get go. Ironically the 629 was the one gun that didn't beat up my hand. I am not sure if this is because of the rubber grip or the fact it had more girth to it. Another thing I have noticed is that the old school target grips are thicker than the newer target grips. Maybe an older target grip would work better?? Who knows.

The range had a 460s and 500s. I think firing that would have pissed off a lot of people though (especially since I had already been shooting 357s and 44s) lol After I finished with the 44, there was someone a few lanes down that was rapid firing a hand cannon. It might have been a 50AE Desert Eagle but I never bothered to look. I hear you about the loud guns being good training for not getting distracted.
 
What you encountered with the 1911 magazines is a very good lesson should you decide to get a 1911. Buy quality magazines. Magazines can be the biggest problem with 1911’s.

Is jamming a common problem with those higher capacity single stack magazines? Is there a point where a double stack magazine is more reliable?
 
I'm glad you enjoyed it! If I were going to buy one or two handguns as a new shooter, one would definitely be a 22, probably a Ruger Single Six. The other would be a 4" or 6" medium-framed 357. (Come to think of it, those were my first two handguns.) Most of the new shooters I've trained have preferred revolvers.

Over time the 45acp will be no big deal. I don't notice much difference between 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45acp. 38 special, 44 special, and moderate 45 colt are likewise similar to me. 357 and 44 magnum are, as you noticed, on a different level. Keep having fun. It's a great hobby! :)
 
Is jamming a common problem with those higher capacity single stack magazines? Is there a point where a double stack magazine is more reliable?

It is with low quality magazines. But that is true regardless of capacity.
Single stack and double stack magazines depend on the frame of the gun and whether or not it is made for a single or double stack magazine.

If you do decide to go with a magazine fed pistol do yourself a favor and buy quality magazines.
 
Come to think 357 and 44 magnum are, as you noticed, on a different level.
Yes, and as is also 10 mm in its most common loadings. 9mm, 38 Special, and 40 S&W are best bets for comfortable practice shooting (with TMJ ammo) as well as reliable self-defense (with JHP ammo). Not that the higher energy bullets aren’t valid choices. Of course they are. But they are best reserved for those with more experience.
 
I prefer revolvers over pistols.

There. I said it.

Now just a few thoughts.

The 686 is a "K" or more likely today "L" frame. The 629 is an "N" frame which is just lightly larger and heavier than the "L" frame. That might account for the fit difference.

I'm not current on the modern Smith lineup but they did make 38/357 models in the "N" frame and one of those might fit you better.

S&W 28 Highway Patrolman with Nills Grip:
medium800.jpg

Another line to explore is the many revolvers available in 45acp. I find they are among the most pleasant ones to shoot. Mine are all older Colt and Smith models but the current Smith version is the 625 and there is a 5" (127mm) option. The 625 is based on the "N" frame like the 629. I think there is a modern 627 that is the 38/357 variant as well but may be wrong.

Smith "N" frames are pretty rugged and dependable.
 
Welcome aboard! It sounds like you had a very fun & educational range trip. I'm more of a semiauto guy, but there's not a thing in the world wrong with choosing a revolver. They'll do their work, just fine.
 
Welcome aboard! It sounds like you had a very fun & educational range trip. I'm more of a semiauto guy, but there's not a thing in the world wrong with choosing a revolver. They'll do their work, just fine.

Yeah it was fun experience. It was also interesting to learn what my own capabilities and limitations are. I would say 44 Magnum is definitely my limit.
 
If you go the 686 route, make sure you don't get one with a canted barrel. S&W is notorious for having shipped revolvers with barrels that aren't screwed in properly (canted front sight.) It's dead obvious if you see the rear sight cranked over one direction or the other. I still need to send mine in to get repaired.
 
Whatever you do DO NOT GET A REVOLVER. The damn things multiply like rabbits. I started with one and now have six, all within a year. They’re like gremlins.
I tried to list my revolvers as dependents on my income tax withholdings. The IRS did not agree with my justification that they keep multiplying and I have to feed them, or it would be neglect.
 
While 44 Magnum can be a handful the 44 Special can be fun to shoot. I have 44 Mag revolvers but can't remember the last time I shot anything but 44 Special.

I would love to try shooting 44 special someday. That is probably what I would shoot a lot of the time too. I keep reading about 44 Special being similar to 45 ACP. After experiencing a 1911, I don't think 44 Special or 45 ACP are weak by any means. Range sessions would probably last a lot longer too.
 
If you go the 686 route, make sure you don't get one with a canted barrel. S&W is notorious for having shipped revolvers with barrels that aren't screwed in properly (canted front sight.) It's dead obvious if you see the rear sight cranked over one direction or the other. I still need to send mine in to get repaired.

Thanks for the reminder. I downloaded a couple of older videos on stuff to look out for when buying revolvers. One is fairly general and the other is specific to the canted barrel issue. Has S&W fixed this issue yet? I would think they would have fixed that problem by now.
 
I tried to list my revolvers as dependents on my income tax withholdings. The IRS did not agree with my justification that they keep multiplying and I have to feed them, or it would be neglect.

lmao!! I am making a mental note of this one. You're almost as bad as Sledgehammer (showers and sleeps with his 629).
 
For a 1911 I am a big fan of the Hogue / Pachmayr (I own both) rubber grips with the finger grooves. They make a huge difference in the controllability of a 1911. I forgot how much of a hand full a 1911 with stout loads can be until I shot a friends new Colt Delta with the regular panel grips. It reminded me of how much I love the rubber finger groove grips.
 
Before you commit, take a walk down the ammo aisle in walmart, and see what you will be paying to feed whatever it is you are considering. Of the 3 calibers, you will find the most economy in 45 ACP, I think.
 
Thanks for the reminder. I downloaded a couple of older videos on stuff to look out for when buying revolvers. One is fairly general and the other is specific to the canted barrel issue. Has S&W fixed this issue yet? I would think they would have fixed that problem by now.

the 686-6 I bought new back in 2015 has a canted barrel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top