Secret Sauce Wet Tumbling WITHOUT pins

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Dill said:
Here's how I do it.

Click to expand...


I tried once not filling the bottom half of the RCBS separator with water and it did not work well for me as the pins didn’t all come out of the cases. I stick a garden hose in my tumbler to rinse all the crap out then dump into the separator filled with water and with a dozen turns each way all the pins are on the bottom and cases well rinsed.
Dump that water out and use a Frankford magnet to put pins back into tumbler.
I would not want to try to separate pins from cases using those sifter pans as that looks like a lot of work.
I thought of using the bag to collect the pins like in that video but like I said the pins separated much better with water in the bottom of the RCBS separator.
The one from RCBS isn’t the best made as it is a little flimsy but has worked for several years and a lot of cases have gone through it. If it breaks I think the Dillon one would be the way to go but much more expensive where I’m at.
 
GBExpat said:
FYI ... lemishine = citric acid ;)
Click to expand...

Not exactly:)

Lemishine contains trace amounts of citric acid. Also there are many "varieties" of LemiShine so using one type may work as another may not. Plus it is expensive. Buying pure citric acid in bulk is much cheaper (not the canning citric acid either)

https://www.lemishine.com/

Dishwasher detergent?
Dishwasher Booster
Dishwasher cleaner?
Soap
etc etc
 
it's not that bad, but then again I usually clean and load in 100 or 200 round increments, so I never have more brass than that in the tumbler. It takes 2-3 minutes with 100+ cases to just pick up the separator and massaging the cases by hand to get the pins out of the cases. But, that's the fun thing about loading is when it comes to stuff like this, there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.

Reeferman said:
I tried once not filling the bottom half of the RCBS separator with water and it did not work well for me as the pins didn’t all come out of the cases. I stick a garden hose in my tumbler to rinse all the crap out then dump into the separator filled with water and with a dozen turns each way all the pins are on the bottom and cases well rinsed.
Dump that water out and use a Frankford magnet to put pins back into tumbler.
I would not want to try to separate pins from cases using those sifter pans as that looks like a lot of work.
I thought of using the bag to collect the pins like in that video but like I said the pins separated much better with water in the bottom of the RCBS separator.
The one from RCBS isn’t the best made as it is a little flimsy but has worked for several years and a lot of cases have gone through it. If it breaks I think the Dillon one would be the way to go but much more expensive where I’m at.
Click to expand...
 
I tumble with and without pins.

Without: Use that for scroungy range brass or once fired I need to clean up after I decap and decrimp. This way Im not feeding a bunch of crap into my sizing dies and press. I just spin them for an hour, dump them and let them dry..
With: Everything else. I want my cases clean inside and out. Pins also deburr cases post trimming saving me a step when it time to load.

I use a Dillon separator. Its stout, and has a large capacity.
 
Rule3 said:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2049622895/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-liquid

https://www.sinclairintl.com/userdocs/MSDS/749-002-650_IOSSO CASE CLEANER KIT, 1 QUART CASE CLEANER - 073_default.pdf

https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting these links
I read the MSDS and saw where one ingredient is Phosphate with most other stuff as "proprietary" .
Because of this I've added TSP to my list of stuff to try, because it's cheap/readily available, and I have some.
I'm no chemist, so please chime in if anything I've posted about trying has no chance of working or compromising the cases.

The only problem I have now is I'm running out of dirty brass for testing.
I'll have to go to the range and make some.
:D
edit: I read that iosso product at midway is $27+shipping and will clean about a 1000 cases +/-, so that's at least $0.03 per case, pricey for me.
 
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Tilos said:
Thanks for posting these links
I read the MSDS and saw where one ingredient is Phosphate with most other stuff as "proprietary" .
Because of this I've added TSP to my list of stuff to try, because it's cheap/readily available, and I have some.
I'm no chemist, so please chime in if anything I've posted about trying has no chance of working or compromising the cases.

The only problem I have now is I'm running out of dirty brass for testing.
I'll have to go to the range and make some.
:D
Click to expand...
You don't need any phosphate! In fact most soaps and stuff like fertilizer as doing away with phosphates/ (they increase algae growth in the water)

It's not rocket science. Any mild acid and some soap in a gal of water will clean your brass.

People are obsessed with "surgically clean" brass. Brass only needs to be clean of dirt and major carbon, If brass is to clean it will be hard on your dies

So you get blinding , shiny brass, what happens when you shoot it.?? It's dirty again. Whats the point, so it looks good??

Scroll to Chemical Case Cleaning Solutions

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Solutions
 
Rule3 said:
You don't need any phosphate! In fact most soaps and stuff like fertilizer as doing away with phosphates/ (they increase algae growth in the water)

It's not rocket science. Any mild acid and some soap in a gal of water will clean your brass.

People are obsessed with "surgically clean" brass. Brass only needs to be clean of dirt and major carbon, If brass is to clean it will be hard on your dies

So you get blinding , shiny brass, what happens when you shoot it.?? It's dirty again. Whats the point, so it looks good??

Scroll to Chemical Case Cleaning Solutions

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Solutions
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting
Tell that to the phosphate miners in USA (Florida), Kazakhstan, China, Morocco, and Tunisia...
You except less than clean primer pockets, and rationalize you don't need it, because you cannot figure out a way to get it...without pins.
There's a link in my OP for stuff that is marketed and sold because it will clean PP without pins, and they sell a lot of it, read the reviews there.
That product must have some element that does the cleaning and phosphate could be it, despite your opinion.

No need to post a link to one person's opinion that's more than16 years old.
Just looking for 1st person experiences here,
:D
 
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Tilos said:
Thanks for posting
Tell that to the phosphate miners in USA (Florida), Kazakhstan, China, Morocco, and Tunisia...
You except less than clean primer pockets, and rationalize you don't need it, because you cannot figure out a way to get it...without pins.
There's a link in my OP for stuff that is marketed and sold because it will clean PP without pins, and they sell a lot of it, read the reviews there.
That product must have some element that does the cleaning and phosphate could be it, despite your opinion.

No need to post a link to one person's opinion that's more than16 years old.
Just looking for 1st person experiences here,
:D
Click to expand...
Buy some TSP )tri Sodium Phosphate)then and clean away. Try Phosphoric acid. Muriatic Acid . Oxalic acid
Cleaning primer pockets is an obsession and I am over 16 years old.

I gave you several "solutions" to clean your brass but you want to beat it to death.

Use whatever you want. I am done here.

I use to clean buckets of our range brass, been there done that. Then dry tumbled it. Mass quantities, JMO.

DSC02398 (Medium).JPG
 
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Tried "no pin" wet tumbling with TSP instead of Dawn and no improvement in primer pockets.
In another forum someone mentioned that l-ascorbic acid is the magic ingredient in "Brass Juice".
I ordered some and will report on it once I've tried it.
I know l-ascorbic acid is vitamin C...
:D
 
Over the years, I've probably tried every way including back in the 70's there was 5-6 of us that casted, loaded and shot together almost every week. We even got an old concrete mixer and wet tumbled using pins, no pins and even tried small ball bearings just smaller than primer pockets using a variety of different chemicals. Now I've gone back to dry tumbling. I use the corncob media with about 2 capfuls of Turtle Wax Chrome polish. Turn it on and leave it 4-5 hours. Cleans plenty good and I think the polish leaves a slicker finish that help for smoother loading. Run it through a media separator and in 5 minutes you are ready to load. Like on of the above posters the biggest hassle I found wet tumbling was drying the brass. Everyone uses what works best for them, but for me I have never seen a real advantage to using the wet tumbler with pins.
 
I wet tumble rifle brass with pins, dollop of lemishine, squirt of dawn. Works great, use a media separator to get the last of the pins out.

I have to be careful since I use an induction annealer as SS pins are a sure path to ruin.

Every method has it's chore factor, it comes down to how can I minimize time spent on brass preparation for the result I wish to have.
 
Some people are more anal than others about getting their brass clean. Nothing bad about that. Just different magic to make it all work. I clean before and after I resize. Always use pins. My secret addition to the sauce is burnishing powder. Its cheap and works well, just a dab is all that is needed. I add a little car wash with max to the mix and everything comes out nice and clean.

To clean up after, I pore the contents of the tumble into a big bowl. Brass is removed manually from the pings and rinsed. I place them on an old towel and shake it a bit to get as much water out as possible. Then into a aluminum pan for oven drying in the winter or when I am in a hurry. During the summer I use outside radiant heat generated from a yellow ball in the sky.

Pins are rinsed and then placed in an old frying pan. They are heated until dry.
 
I dry tumble about 4, 2 pound coffee cans of brass at a time using the smallest cement mixer that Harbor Freight sells. I use fine walnut shells or corn cob and my brass comes out very clean and I don't have the hassle of the water or drying the brass.
 
Tilos said:
In another forum someone mentioned that l-ascorbic acid is the magic ingredient in "Brass Juice".
I ordered some and will report on it once I've tried it.
Click to expand...

As it turns out my lovely wife, who thinks Im hard to buy for :D, ordered me the small size Brass Juice cleaner and also the case lube for a Christmas present. Just tried some this past weekend to see if its all its cracked up to be. Honestly, it probably isn't. It didn't do a bad job, but it didn't really do anything better than what Im already using. I don't decap before I wet tumble but to test their claims of cleaning the primer pockets without pins I did decap a few hundred cases just to see how it would do.

I mixed the Juice as per directions with hot water and let it go for an hour. Brass did come out very shiny and the primer pockets were probably cleaner than when I started but they certainly were not totally clean. To test their claims of getting multiple cleanings from the same solution I poured the dirty water into a container, rinsed the brass in the tumbler, and tumbled another batch of brass for an hour. It came out shiny too, but a shade less shiny than the first batch. Did a third batch and it came out clean but several shades less shiny than the first two batches.

To compare, I did a 4th batch with my usual method using car wash N wax with straight citric acid added, after an hour in the tumbler it came out just slightly less shiny than the first batch of Brass Juice brass, but more shiny than the second batch. Inside cases and primer pockets were about the same level of clean as well. If I would of left the brass in the tumbler longer maybe the primer pockets and insides of the cases would have gotten cleaner, but they were more than clean enough for me, and who has time for all that anyway? :evil::evil: I usually only wet tumble for about 30 mins max. Im sure the cleaners do some work but I think the abrasion of the pins is what really cleans the case insides and primer pockets. Side note, the pins that came with my FART tumbler are still in their factory wrapping, Ive never used them nor do I intend to.

Bottom line, Brass Juice is fine stuff but I don't see where its going to do anything magical that other cleaning stuff wont do. Its not exactly cheap so I probably wont buy anymore but Im glad I got the chance to try it. The case lube they sell has a nice minty smell, reminds me of chewing a stick of spearmint gum, but again its not magical potion that is doing any better than my Hornady one shot. It does smell better so if that's a concern they have the upper hand there.
 
dave333 said:
As it turns out my lovely wife, who thinks Im hard to buy for :D, ordered me the small size Brass Juice cleaner and also the case lube for a Christmas present. Just tried some this past weekend to see if its all its cracked up to be. Honestly, it probably isn't. It didn't do a bad job, but it didn't really do anything better than what Im already using. I don't decap before I wet tumble but to test their claims of cleaning the primer pockets without pins I did decap a few hundred cases just to see how it would do.

I mixed the Juice as per directions with hot water and let it go for an hour. Brass did come out very shiny and the primer pockets were probably cleaner than when I started but they certainly were not totally clean. To test their claims of getting multiple cleanings from the same solution I poured the dirty water into a container, rinsed the brass in the tumbler, and tumbled another batch of brass for an hour. It came out shiny too, but a shade less shiny than the first batch. Did a third batch and it came out clean but several shades less shiny than the first two batches.

To compare, I did a 4th batch with my usual method using car wash N wax with straight citric acid added, after an hour in the tumbler it came out just slightly less shiny than the first batch of Brass Juice brass, but more shiny than the second batch. Inside cases and primer pockets were about the same level of clean as well. If I would of left the brass in the tumbler longer maybe the primer pockets and insides of the cases would have gotten cleaner, but they were more than clean enough for me, and who has time for all that anyway? :evil::evil: I usually only wet tumble for about 30 mins max. Im sure the cleaners do some work but I think the abrasion of the pins is what really cleans the case insides and primer pockets. Side note, the pins that came with my FART tumbler are still in their factory wrapping, Ive never used them nor do I intend to.

Bottom line, Brass Juice is fine stuff but I don't see where its going to do anything magical that other cleaning stuff wont do. Its not exactly cheap so I probably wont buy anymore but Im glad I got the chance to try it. The case lube they sell has a nice minty smell, reminds me of chewing a stick of spearmint gum, but again its not magical potion that is doing any better than my Hornady one shot. It does smell better so if that's a concern they have the upper hand there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your 1st hand testing with Brass Juice :thumbup:

I haven't tried any other cleaners to date, but have been thinking about an abrasive or something I can add to wet tumbling that's cheap enough to use and throw it out with the water after one use.
It would need to be small enough to get into the primer pockets but not small enough to jam in the flash hole.
Maybe some type of rice that wouldn't soften when exposed/tumbled in water for 1 or 2 hours.:uhoh:

:D
 
Tilos said:
Thanks for the link...
I thought you were "done here"?
I can't decide if you're being humorous or just trolling
Either way thanks again for reading and posting in this thread.
:D
Click to expand...

I am done. apparently you are not, So I figured a Horse as in a DEAD Horse would help you out.:D
There is no magic, all the magic has been posted.
 
Rule3 said:
I am done. apparently you are not, So I figured a Horse as in a DEAD Horse would help you out.:D
There is no magic, all the magic has been posted.
Click to expand...
Creative, the dead horse tie-in :D
I'll be adding you to my ignore list, unless you are a covert mod, and suggest you do the same for me :thumbup:
:rofl:
 
Tilos said:
A lot of reloader's have quit using pins because of the hassle using them and just except less than squeaky clean primer pockets.
Click to expand...

Is the 'hassle' your only aversion to using the pins?
I am only wondering if there wasn't another reason, as getting the pins out doesn't seem too bad, to me. But I refuse to be associated with walnuts or the crumblings of corn cob, so in turn, I must use pins and their accompanying detriments and short comings. Sparkling clean primer pockets and interior surfaces not included, of course.:)

I have reasons why use pins. And usually my brass is shiny clean going in. Being fired doesn't necessarily get it dirty...
 
I use Dawn dish soap with excellent results but that is with pins. Pins are so easy to collect. Strain through a pasta strainer into a 5 gallon bucket. Dump all the water out. Dump pins onto an old towel. Pick up the pins with a magnet ( I had an old speaker magnet in the garage).
I have also used the brass cleaner that Frankford sent with my tumbler. Blue dawn was just as good.
Enjoy
 
Pins for me.
Most of my reloading is straight wall cases. Easy peasy.
The few thousand bottleneck cases I run a year don't really require THAT much more attention to remove the pins.

Otherwise,,,

As I've mentioned before. All my Dad ever used was 'a rag',,,
 
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