Ethical deer range for a 50 cal round ball?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I hunt once in a while for the ML season on local Blacktails which are small deer, and keep it well under 100 yards with .50 round ball and as said they work OK with good hits. I use a .50 Lyman Plains pistol as back up and shot a couple over the years with it which were not quite finished and from 50 feet or so it produces the same wound as the rifle at 50 yards and works quickly and humanely. If I wanted to stretch it I use a modern rifle, I want a quick, humane death for the animal..

And the plethora of hunters on the traditional forum claim just that out to even 125 yds.
 
rodwha, yer right that energy figures don't make it ethical. Energy figures plus multiple other factors make it ethical. You know...ball size and weight, powder charge, powder granulation, distance, velocity, shooter competence, sectional density of the projectile, the wound channel, weather, humidity and many others if the whole spectrum were noted. I don't think I was saying FPE was the only factor making the ethics. It is one of the most important at ethical distances.

One important point is the "knock out figure" determining what the projectile does to the material it impacts. The bigger the piece of lead the more power it has with enough powder. I guess there can be multiple variations of what ethical really is too.

I'll stick to the belief that FPE is important. Once a person has a firm opinion on something it most usually can't be changed by any amount of debate. I'm new here so where is the Traditional forum you mentioned? I'd like to check it out.

If you start with, "FPE don't make it ethical", then what can you teach me from there? I'll be listening so I might be an old dog learning a new trick ...so to speak.

Anywhooooo…..I will stick with an ethical distance with a 50cal. ball and 90-100gr. powder for deer at 100 yards......less would be better. I'd rather error on the side of caution. I've shot deer with that load that went thru the deer with a side shot. The same with a 53 cal. ball and the same powder. Now with a 45 cal. ball and 80gr. ffg. I'd make the max distance 75 yards with 50 yards being better. Those kind of loads and others were used by me hunting and shooting deer that were quick clean humane kills. That's good enough fer me.

Sure, I saw a guy shoot a deer in the neck with a 22cal rimfire and knock it's front legs out so he got up to it and used a knife to finish it. I would never do that and never hunted squirrel or anything else with the guy again. Everything is relative one way or another.

Thanks for reading and replying to my post.
 
I saw an air gun "recommendation" chart where the FPE was correlated to the size of the deer.
The deer size was broken up into 3 categories: small, medium and large.
Each category had a difference of 50 FPE.
The small deer required a .357 caliber air gun.
The medium deer required a .40+ caliber air gun.
The large deer required a .45+ caliber air gun.

The FPE ranged from 100 to 200 in increments of 50 FPE with a kill zone of 2.5 inches.
It was recommended by experts and was based on shots to the head or heat/lung vitals.

While they may be conservative, they emulate game agency requirements for minimum deer hunting calibers for many states.
And the chart footnotes stressed that hunting shots will not be as accurate as when shooting off the bench.
Thus the reason for the increase in FPE over what others might consider to be their minimum.

Hunting for the purpose of wildlife management & conservation is a blood sport, and I think that hunters have an interest in protecting
its reputation and keeping wounded & lost animals away from the public eye, the media, the anti-hunters and anti-gunners.

That's partly why the states have minimum caliber & cartridge requirements, some states being more strict than others.
It's alot about state reg.'s, since there are no Federal hunting ethics regulations.
Just like the size of deer can vary so much from the north to the south.
So FPE can matter as to the size of the deer.

Living in a shotgun state, we don't allow any gauge smaller than a 20 gauge for deer hunting on state land.
Sure some states allow hunters to use a .41o, but we protect our deer for those hunters who utilize more FPE.
We don't want to wound deer when they could be harvested by more serious hunters.
We just don't have that kind of a deer problem that some other states might where we allow folks to kill deer with a .410.
That's why the authorities here prohibit it along with the use of buckshot to kill deer.
Each state and hunter decides their own ethics within the law, so in the end it's to each their own to decide.
 
Last edited:
I don't understand what a person mentioning sling shots and air guns is trying to say. I'd like the meaning of those expressed in straight forward dialoge so I can attempt to wrap my head around it. You know as it pertains to deer hunting ?
A person asks a rather simple question about a TC Hawken with a 28" barrel and a 1-48 rifling twist and gets subject matter concerning air guns and sling shots? I ain't seeing the logic of that.

I tried to give what I've been self taught thru reading manuals and by actually hunting with muzzleloader rifles for decades. Trying to answer the persons question the best I can without much mis-information.

Looking at the LYMAN BLACKPOWDER LOADING MANUAL(I believe I can trust) shows I ain't too far off the truth. The "round ball" at 100 yards from a 28" barrel with a 1-48 twist rifling with 110-120gr. FFg just barely gets to 500FPE. In my old man opinion I'd say that would be a minimum close to 500FPE. Meaning a 75 yard max. distance to shoot deer big or small would be what to adhere to. The use of FFFg powder makes it a little better.

Those loads and less powder of 90-100gr. FFg has shot thru deer at 100 yards fer me,give of take a few more yards one way or the other , and they were down and died quick from lose of blood pressure. That's real life actual hunting facts.

Looking at the manual for the same barrel length of 28"and rifling twist of 1-48 the heavier conicals that retain energy and velocity better would be a better choice especially for bigger deer like the western mulies or elk.

I say a good way the answer the original question would be to advise the person get and read the Lyman BlackPowder loading Manual. Looking at William Wellington Greener's book would be a good thing too. A person wouldn't get muddled up mixing ,"air guns and sling shots", into the equation.

The minimum caliber black powder rifle requirement in the state I live in is 38 caliber. That could kill deer with enough powder and a long barrel from a close range but.....I'd be opting for my good ole 53 cal. ball shooter,my 50 cal. ball shooter, or the regular go to rifle I have that actually is a 45/70 muzzleloader that uses the 500gr. Lyman Govt. conical. All those have cleanly killed Whitetail for me at ethical distances. That would be a few feet distance from in a tree to 100 yards give or take a few yards standing on my hind legs. If I was going for Elk the 45/70 muzzleloader would be my hunting companion but......my 50cal. using a Maxi Ball conical would do fine too out to an ethical max distance all ballistic things considered and THUNKED about. I ain't no expert but I have learned a few things after decades of deer huntin with the blackpowder rifles. Oh sure! I expect I'll learn another thing or two before it's all over. Maybe from hanging out at THE HIGH ROAD some. I'm not dumb enough to thunk I know it all. "I know what I don't know and know what I do know". Does that make any sense? I'm gonna have to thunk about that.

One last thing.....I'd suggest that brewer think about getting a Green Mountain fast twist 1-28 replacement barrel ifin his 1-48 doesn't shoot conicals well. Some will shoot the conicals really well and some of the same twist can't hit the broad side of a barn wall.

I had a Muzzleloader rifle shop at one time making rifles and selling plenty of the 1-48 rifled Hawkens factory guns. Those 1-48 rifles are real weird at times. Some shoot balls and conicals real well, some shoot balls well but not conicals and some shoot conicals well and not balls and some shoot balls and conicals badly. Don't ask me why cause I don't know except to speculate it must be barrels with spec. problems. You know...tight spots, loose spots at the muzzle and stuff like that. Never got a bad Green Mountain barrel though. Never got a bad 45-70 barrel with breech plug threads made by Ed Rayle or Howard Kelly down south of me.

If I build another Hawken(authentic type) rifle it will have one of those barrels and if I can't get those I'd get a Green Mountain 45-70 barrel and get breech plug threads put to it and use the front end of it cut off to make a bullet swag fer it (so I could get the bullet down the muzzle). That way I could shoot bout anything with the 500 grainer if I can get out without killin my old self the rest of the way and hunt some more. I'd like an Elk at least once before I lay down and feed the buzzards. You know.....big deer type Elk with a conical bullet.

Hound dog's barkin at something so...gotta go. Merry Christmas!
 
I went back once I woke up enough and read the two upper posts. I thunk I can get what they are getting at. In my state that allows a person to hunt deer with a 38cal. muzzleloader I'd never recommend a person do that even if it can work. Too iffy so I don't think it's real ethical.
 
Now that's interesting.
Only 4 out of 50 U.S. states allow the use of a .38 caliber muzzle loader bore or projectile for deer hunting:--->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/muzzleloader-regulations-by-state/#flor

Mississippi
Ohio
Virginia (bore must be .45 or larger firing a single projectile of at least .38 caliber)
West Virginia

It just goes to show that different conservation agency experts and state legislatures think differently about
what's considered to be ethical hunting within their respective boundaries.
The OP's question about ethics became a red herring since not all hunters will ever agree on an ethical hunting distance
for a .50 cal. round ball for every deer, gun and hunter.
It's up to each and every individual's conscience to decide and we are all just providing guidance and our own 2 cents.
So we use analogies to illustrate our perspective and to make a point.
Everyone should be able to understand that.
 
Last edited:
rodwha, yer right that energy figures don't make it ethical. Energy figures plus multiple other factors make it ethical. You know...ball size and weight, powder charge, powder granulation, distance, velocity, shooter competence, sectional density of the projectile, the wound channel, weather, humidity and many others if the whole spectrum were noted. I don't think I was saying FPE was the only factor making the ethics. It is one of the most important at ethical distances.

One important point is the "knock out figure" determining what the projectile does to the material it impacts. The bigger the piece of lead the more power it has with enough powder. I guess there can be multiple variations of what ethical really is too.

I'll stick to the belief that FPE is important. Once a person has a firm opinion on something it most usually can't be changed by any amount of debate. I'm new here so where is the Traditional forum you mentioned? I'd like to check it out.

If you start with, "FPE don't make it ethical", then what can you teach me from there? I'll be listening so I might be an old dog learning a new trick ...so to speak.

Anywhooooo…..I will stick with an ethical distance with a 50cal. ball and 90-100gr. powder for deer at 100 yards......less would be better. I'd rather error on the side of caution. I've shot deer with that load that went thru the deer with a side shot. The same with a 53 cal. ball and the same powder. Now with a 45 cal. ball and 80gr. ffg. I'd make the max distance 75 yards with 50 yards being better. Those kind of loads and others were used by me hunting and shooting deer that were quick clean humane kills. That's good enough fer me.

Sure, I saw a guy shoot a deer in the neck with a 22cal rimfire and knock it's front legs out so he got up to it and used a knife to finish it. I would never do that and never hunted squirrel or anything else with the guy again. Everything is relative one way or another.

Thanks for reading and replying to my post.

I recall some time back that 700-1000 ft/lbs of energy were necessary to hunt deer with. Those energy figures don’t mean much though as we see that half as much energy in certain circumstances kills just as well.

You mentioned 500 ft/lbs being the minimum for a .50 cal ball. I disagree as there are far too many people humanely harvesting deer out at 125 yds and at that distance it has closer to 350 ft/lbs. At that distance almost everyone stated they get complete passthroughs on broadside shots.

As to “FPE don’t make it ethical” all we have to do is look to the arrow. Energy isn’t a factor and it has a dismal amount of it. Ultimately we need to create a wound that is incapacitating in a humane amount of time.

Though a ball seems to be quite effective to at least 125 yds that, for me, is about as far as I’d want to shoot on a calm day. If it’s breezy 75 yds might be a bit too far with as easily as it’s pushed off course. Judging distance I’m fair at but wind speed? Nah. As it stands though I have t found an accurate load to shoot past 75 yds yet, but then I’ve only begun the actual work as I was merely having fun breaking in my barrel.

I’ll send you a PM with the traditional forum I mentioned. I’m sure it’s frowned upon to post a public link.
 
Now that's interesting.
Only 4 out of 50 U.S. states allow the use of a .38 caliber muzzle loader bore or projectile for deer hunting:--->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/muzzleloader-regulations-by-state/#flor

Mississippi
Ohio
Virginia (bore must be .45 or larger firing a single projectile of at least .38 caliber)
West Virginia

It just goes to show that different conservation agency experts and state legislatures think differently about
what's considered to be ethical hunting within their respective boundaries.
The OP's question about ethics became a red herring since not all hunters will ever agree on an ethical hunting distance
for a .50 cal. round ball for every deer, gun and hunter.
It's up to each and every individual's conscience to decide and we are all just providing guidance and our own 2 cents.
So we use analogies to illustrate our perspective and to make a point.
Everyone should be able to understand that.

Texas doesn’t have a minimum caliber. Our deer tend to be tiny. I’ve often wondered about a .40 cal using patched .380” balls.
 
Many thanks, that's a great factoid to know.
There's a lot of different rifles, bore sizes and conicals that can be custom made.
Let freedom ring!
 
Last edited:
Many thanks, that's a great factoid to know.
There's a lot of different rifles, bore sizes and conicals that can be custom made.
Let freedom ring!

They’ve nearly done the same thing with modern guns. As long as it’s a centerfire (and .22 cal?).

On one hand I somewhat agree with this but on the other I don’t. Can a .223 Rem work on our tiny deer? Sure it can. In the hands of someone who understands shot placement and knows their limitations. But I also knew of a young boy on the other end of the lease who shot his deer 5 times. I’m making assumptions but I’m guessing it was the boy at fault.

I know there are some people who use .40 cal rifles to hunt deer at shorter (<50 yds) ranges. I’ve wondered how this would work with our deer, but I forgot to mention that I’d opt for a conical in that caliber (been contemplating a muzzleloader version of something like a .38-55 but a .40 cal and using 3F with no less than 55 grns).
 
This High Road can be an interesting and informative place. I think people hunt deer with the 223 Rem and the 5.5 NATO just because they have them and really like those rifles. I'd have a hard time pickin the right bullet fer deer.
A 40cal ML rifle and even a 36cal.ML could take deer but I'd opt fer a bigger diameter bullet. 40cal could do it but the barrel would have to be fast twist,kinda longish and be a bullet with no roundness to the nose. A bullet closer to a 40cal. wadcutter would be the best I'd be thunkin. I put a little gunsmithin hammer to my 45 bullets in my Hawken and make the nose from round to pretty much wadcutter. Like Elmer Kieth once wrote,"round nose bullets just seem to slip thru game".

It would be sorta custom to get a barrel in 40cal. that had a fast twist about ,something like, 1-32 or faster like the 1-28 but I'd be wondering if even faster like 1-18 wouldn't be better. It would be interesting playin around with something like that specially using 777 FFFg powder or Alliant BlackMZ. Might make a good varmit rifle or a good survival gun when the poopie hits the fan and stuff gets scarce. A small caliber ML rifle would benefit from using a bit of the end of the barrel fer a bullet swag to put the rifling grooves to the bullet so to get it in the muzzle of a shallow groove fast twist and know there wouldn't be way too much reliance on obturation to get the bullet in the grooves.

I know conserving lead isn't a bad idea so playin with a small caliber ML rifle could be beneficial.

First it's the hound dog barkin and now it's the cats making that weird noise on the front porch. Gotta go.
Merry Christmas!
 
I don't live in Maryland, but looked at all of their deer hunting regulations.
Some of their legal firearms are only designated by "muzzle energy" and FPE, and the reg's say to consult an ammunition guide for ballistics info.
However that same ME criterion doesn't apply to muzzle loading guns.

Here's the deer hunting requirements for Maryland:

Air guns - .40 caliber or larger & at least 400 foot pounds of ME
Shotguns - 28 gauge or larger, (#1 or larger buckshot may only be used in 1 county)
Rifles - Muzzle Energy of at least 1200 FPE (rifles are only legal in certain counties)
Handguns - 6 inch barrel or more and the ammo. must have ME of at least 700 FPE
Muzzle Loader Rifles & Shotguns - must be at least .40 caliber and must use 60 grains of black powder or equivalent, single projectile only.
Muzzle Loader Pistols and C&B Revolvers - 6 inch barrel or more of at least .40 caliber, must use 40 grains of black powder or equivalent.

This just goes to show how important Muzzle Energy and FPE is if wanting to stay legal during MD's deer hunting seasons.
The rest is up to the individual.

Source:--->>> http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/hunting/deer-regulations-archery-muzzleloader-firearms-airguns/

BTW, Maryland is one of the few states that has Japanese Sika deer hunting in addition to whitetail and some fallow deer.
Sika deer are a small species that weigh from 70-90 pounds, stand as high as 2.5 feet at the shoulder, having up to 15 inch antlers.
They are hunted in special seasons and only in select counties.--->>> http://dnr.maryland.gov/wildlife/Pages/plants_wildlife/SikaDeer.aspx
 
Last edited:
I had great accuracy after wearing in a couple of new TC sidehammers.
1 in 48 twist. 100gr FFg, #11 ignition, Hornady .495 ball w thick cotton patch.
Had a target, 3 shots in the X at 100 yards, irons, benched (actually cloverleafed).
That rifle would vert string at 50 yds pretty bad, until it shot in. 50 or so shots to see it start behaving, got better by 100 shots.
Took a few range trips to go through 100 roundballs LOL.

100 yards and in I wouldn't sweat it w roundball. Should go through. Might have em go a ways, but there should be a red line to your dead deer.
Personally, w the accuracy I got.........150 yards on a broadsider was doable.

I've killed a half dozen w roundball and it works, but doesn't kill em as fast as I like. Even w perfect placement.
Sabot stuff from inlines about the same.

Roundballs are light (190 gr?) so recoil is mild. They shoot flat too. Kinda nice.
I would not feel handicapped at all hunting with one to 100 yards or so.

Did shoot one well past that once, in and out, perfect placement.
 
Two Renegades, one New Englander and one Hawken.
All 1 in 48.
The Renegades and NE shot roundball very well.........once the new bbls had at least 50 shots through them.
The Hawken only saw sabots and conicals.

It also saw BP substitutes, had that %$#@ QLA.............and was stainless steel.
Dunno which one or combination, made that gun the most temperamental MZ I ever had.

But the previous ones w Hornady roundball and 100gr FFg were boringly good shooters.
That Hawken would throw a flier wide left now and then. Crazy.

BP sub, QLA, stainless bbl ? I dunno why, but that thing was a PITA.
Its had what.........maybe 50 shots through it. Maybe it needed shot in? I did polish the bore and that made it foul less (which would equate to how many shots?). I got too cranky for the MZ stuff and gave the gun to my dad.
 
I do think the concern about lower energy rounds to be valid.
Thank goodness nobody ever wounds and loses a deer with more potent stuff ......................

FWIW my state allows .410 for deer.
Unless one takes a short bus to Hunter's Ed class, they know it's a 50 yard and in deal.
And with lower recoil.............certain folks might benefit from such a choice.

Remember the howls when it became legal.
The Fudds were pretty vocal at my LGS (a lot of traffic there).
Guy brings in a pic of his daughter, and her big buck..........shot w one slug from a Saiga .410 shotgun.

Kinda hard to argue with success.
 
Another kid popped a bruiser buck w .44 special in rifle, under 50 yards.
I dunno what the energy figures are for that compared to .410 slug, or .50 cal roundball.
Know it was the Win factory load.
 
Years ago I remember some big guy at F&W range shooting his sidehammer. Ran out of elevation. 50 yard target.
He was kinda upset as season was soon approaching. He asked what to do?
Told us he heard less powder made them more accurate. He was doing roundball w 50gr FFg.
I asked if he wanted to bounce the bullet off the deer or actually kill one LOL.
He then tried 90 grains and took out the X. Didn't kick, fired a couple shots, group was nice.

Have heard other old crusties say that over 70 gr is a waste of powder.
Maybe, maybe not. Bet they don't shoot deer at 100 yards either.

Take what you hear/read with more than a few grains of salt.

Have heard 100 yards end up being 200..........some folks are story tellers, some just have revisionist history, time corruption and some just don't know yardage to save their arses.
 
If I find a clean Renegade cheap I might try MZ again. I found that rifle comfy.
Dunno if BP subs behave in them.
Got a .54 minty, w killer wood, cheap from a bud (sold it for family member).
Another buddy swung by when I was moving (didn't ask him to) and helped load stuff in his van.
He expressed an interest in MZ so I gave him that rig.
I got a deal on it, so could not in good conscience sell it for profit.
I had another bud that was cool, and needed a rig............so it was the perfect gift.
Need to see if he's killed anything this weekend with it.

I'd have shot it w a roundball and 110gr FFg.
Whop the snot out of a deer.

Me? I'm a .50 cal guy, roundball or Maxi hunter. Was, if I ever get back into it.
 
Lots of interesting discussion. Reading stuff here and elsewhere, I come to the following conclusions:

- I am in a place where the mulies are fairly hefty. A typical doe is 150 pounds, so this isn't like the Texas sized deer. That means there are greater demands on the rifle and the chunk of lead it throws to ensure a clean kill.

- I don't have the greatest vision and my state does not allow scopes for muzzleloader season. Regardless of the accuracy and killing power of the rifle, I probably wouldn't be comfy taking much over a 75 yard shot at a deer. I'd be willing to try 100 yards at an elk simply because the kill zone is the size of a manhole cover.

- My state says that I have to use a conical for elk in 50 cal, but I can use round ball for deer. At the ranges I would be willing to take shots, those projectiles should have enough killing power to get the job done.

- I won't know what shoots well until after small game season is over and I have the time to fool around with the rifle at the range. If it won't shoot conicals well, I will be buying a green mountain barrel if I get an elk tag. I had already read that they make good barrels that are available with a fast twist, but I appreciate the pointer from personal experience.
 
Roundball or sabot, neither puts them down super quick IMHO, with double lung hits.
I consider it just the way it is.
Don't mind having to follow red splatters 75 yards to a dead deer.

IIRC CO allows a non magnifying optic for primitive season.
TC sells or sold, a 1X scope for that.
Getting older sucks.
Barrel sights can be tough.
Might want to check out a peep sight, could be of help to you.
 
Hookeye…..what's the problem with the ^$#@*&^$%#@ QLA muzzle? It's made fer sabots mostly I'd quess but shouldn't be a problem with round ball. It seems it would facilitate loading easier with patch and ball. The QLA facilitates loading a sabot bullet or lead conical "straight". They don't go in straight they don't shoot straight. I have trouble loading the round balls straight. Can't find the front and back of them. Always afraid I'm loading them sideways.

Using the 50 and a 53 shootin rifle I always had the deer go down quick.On the spot or run a few yards and drop. Mostly run a few yards and drop. With the balls the heart lung area looked like it exploded.

I never had to shoot a lot of balls or conicals to get the rifle barrels shootin good. I use the formula......the ball should be .005 smaller than the land to land diameter with whatever patch makes it stiff to go in. The Italian guns take a ball .005 bigger than the USA guns.TC takes a .490 ball in 50cal. and the Italian 50cal. takes a .495 ball. The Italian 54cal. takes a .535 ball and the USA gun takes a 530 ball. The Italian Tryon Pedersoli 54 cal. rifle I used for a lot of years supposedly takes the 520 ball but...it takes the .525 to shoot well. Shoot well is surely does.

Anywhooo…. I believe in FPE being at least 500fpe minimum fer deer at 100 yards. Some folks think that's over kill but....I like over kill. It works all the time. The Hawken I made with a ordanance grade steel 45/70 barrel shooting the 500gr. Govt. bullet puts em down fer sure. Especially if I tap a flat to the front of the "bullet". Round nose bullets aren't good. Round balls are since they make a wicked wound channel. Round nose bullets slip thru game too easy at times. Talking lead bullets of course.

That reminds me.....the right bullet makes a big difference even with a good energy. That's why Elmer Keith invented the semi-wadcutter. He killed a pronghorn antelope at 600 yards once with a 44 cal. pistol using a semi-wadcutter. That's a real bonified Hail Mary shot.
 
Last edited:
Those Green Mountain replacement barrels for Thompson Center and Italian copies have a twist in the barrels of 1-22(one turn in 22 inches). That is the twist rate the 45/70's were in the beginning.
Some times you have to modify the hammers to hit the cap properly. Done that.....heat and cool to soften then cut some and weld some to make it hit the cap right and then file to shape then re-case harden them.

Put the parts(hammer) in a steel crucible of some sort like a pipe with screw on caps. leave one cap on a little loose to let air out. Pack the part in casehardening charcoals (wood & bone from Brownells Gunsmithing ) .Build a wood fire and set the crucible (with the parts inside surrounded by charcoal) into the red coals and watch it turn red. Late evening or night time is best to see the color. Leave the parts inside which will get red hot like the outside of the crucible in the coals about an hour or so. Not longer since the small parts will get carbonized clean thru and be brittle if in the red hot state too long. However you figure you can do it you screw the cap off close to a bucket or barrel of water so the parts fall out with the charcoal about an inch from the water. The red hot parts harden when quenched in the water. Then temper the parts in an oven at 380 degrees for a couple of hours. A lead thermometer can be used to keep the temp right. When that's done the parts will have color to them since they will be "real casehardened" the old original way. The parts will be hard fer real. You can just cut the hammer and bend to hit the caped nipple and weld it and file it and get away without casehardening the part. Rub some cold blue on the hammer to darken it if you want it dark.

You can also have a decent Gunsmith adjust hammers if they need it.

It's easier ifin you have the money to just buy a Lyman Great Plains "Hunter" rifle that has the fast twist shallow grooves to the rifling fer conicals.

I haven't seen any newer Hawkens like the Thompson Centers lately but I thunk the rifling was deeper than .004-.005's for round balls. More like .010's. Traditions more like .007's. Pedersoli Traditional Hawken more like .005's. Pedersoli Tryon rifle .010's.

The fast twist barrels are more like .004-.005's.

I may as well mention this...… shallow groove rifling in rifles shootin round balls need the powder charge dropped down to around 50gr. FFg powder. More than that and they shoot erratically.

I may mention this...….I shot a big buck at 32 paces straight on frontal in the neck just under the chin. Used the 500gr. lead conical in the 45/70 muzzleloader barrel with 75gr. FFg black powder. The bullet hit the neck bones and broke them to pieces and cut the bullet to four pieces. The broken bones and the pieces of lead stayed right where they impacted in the neck. Looked like a little bomb went off in the deer's neck. The deer lived for the time I reloaded and walked the few paces to it and died by the time I got there. The deer tried to move and did from the muscles left above the bullet impact. Poor thing. I'd would have thought that would be an instant kill but took a minute or two.
 
I have a 50 cal TC Hawken coming my way with the idea that I might be able to get a muzzleloader tag next year. I like the idea of traditional round ball hunting, but as I look at published muzzle velocities and consider how fast energy drops off with a sphere in flight it seems like such a choice means effective hunting ranges would be really short. It looks like the fabled 800 FPE hits at about 50 yards. Obviously there are alternatives (Lee REAL, Maxis, Minnies, various conicals) that would offer more weight and much longer effective range. But I still wonder about the traditional round ball.

I'd be hunting mulies in Colorado, so somewhat stockier deer than whitetails. I've had these fools get within 50 yards of me, but my favorite spot has somewhat sparse cover so 75+ yards is a more common opportunity. Does this suggest I should stick to something other than a round ball? Obviously if I draw an elk tag something a LOT heavier would e indicated.
It's a trade-off. 50 yards should be barely fine, 75 could come up short without a 100 grain charge, good poly-tipped HP hunting bullet and good shot placement. I'd say either way you'd be fine, just go with about 20 grains more powder if you're using round balls or shooting much past 60 yards.
 
I have taken one mule deer buck with a muzzleloadermuzzleloaders. So I am not an authority on killing deer with a muzzleloader. I hit this animal between the eyes at around 75 yards with a patched round ball. It made mush out of every thing in his head. To think that a patched ball is only good at 50 yards is really selling it short. Others have posted clean kills past a hundred yards. I have dropped many a Jackrabbit past a hundred yards with a pistol, both modern and not so modern. I regularly hunt with a Ruger Old Army, a Walker, or a single shot 50 cal pistol. The damage done to the rabbits is amazing. My point being don't rely on someone else's opinion until you prove it or disprove it for your self.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top