More ethical/fair chase still hunting or stand?

With food all over here- acorns,corn or beans really are no draw during daylight.

Laphroaig said:

IMO the game laws dictate what is ethical. Many hunters feel the need to cheat, and some say if you aren't cheating you aren't trying. I like it when they get caught. Too bad it doesn't happen more often.

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^^^I agree. Just yesterday at my wife's family Christmas, bunch of us "guys" were talking ice fishing. I asked my BIL(married to her sister) if there was still a slot size on Walleyes on the lake he fished/had their lake home on. He said yes there was, but he generally went by "Ice House Regs". When I asked him what that was he said, once you get them to your ice house and cook them up, they are within the slot. He then went on to say how folks like him and the rest of the locals that pay the taxes on their lake homes deserve to be able to take whatever they want. This is the mindset I get from many folks. I know of a few guys that are excellent hunters, still they feel that sneaking onto private property they don't have permission to hunt, or taking home something outta season or taken by means other than legal, just makes the hunt just that much more special. On more than one occasion, I had to excuse myself from a hunt/fishing trip because of the knowledge that those folks were going to be there. I was not afraid to let others know why. Turning one's head and letting others get away with that kind of crap is, IMHO, about as unethical as one can get.

I shoot moving Caribou, Fox, Wolves, etc, all the time.
In the wide open here and with our catching more than one animal at a time the only 'still animal shot' will be the first.
Often, if you have dropped the lead one, the remaining Caribou will trot, look, and then run........ but not always.

The ethical thing is that I have the skills to do so consistently, and , unlike others, blood on snow is an easy track down.

Some dont, and a more stable shooting may have to take place.

Shooting to ones skill level is part of the 'hunters ethic'.

"North America's oldest wildlife conservation group, the Boone and Crockett Club, defines "fair chase" as requiring hunted big game animals to be wild and free-ranging.[1] "Wild" refers to an animal that is naturally bred and lives in nature. "Free-ranging" means an animal that is not confined by artificial barriers."

I haven't read all the replies and not sure if this has been said so I apologize if I'm just an echo. With that said, my quote by definition doesn't deem hunting over bait unethical. It doesn't consider hunting from a blind unethical. I'm in full agreement with this as hunting deer or any other animal in a cage wouldn't be considered wild game per say. I think raising a particular animal in order to butcher it for your own freezer is ok, I just don't see it as actually hunting when you feed these animals at a trough and grow them for your wall.

High fence was mentioned a while ago and just the mention really runs some peoples' blood pressure through the roof. People hear "high fence" and don't consider that there's two general scenarios.

One type situation... pens might be something like 125yds wide and you ride the atv along till you see the elk you want, stick your rifle through the fence, and brag to your buddies about your "grand safari" or whatever. I'm pretty sure this is the one that generates most of the visceral reaction.

The other "high fence" situation would be where a real ranch has pastures (mix of grass, cactus, mesquite, live oak, cedar, etc) 1500acres up to 2500acres... maybe more in some areas. The fence is there as much for predator control as anything. The deer in these huge pastures learn to use every little bit of cover, forage, and all. I hear they can actually be harder to hunt than some deer thought of as free range who may not use any more real estate than the high fence deer. Baited senderos and tripod stands may or may not factor in. Most of those places cost an arm and a leg to hunt. They also get negative reaction because this "high fence" gets equated with that other high fence.

If it's legal, it's ethical. Whether other hunters think your method is ethical should be a non-issue. There are types of hunting I would never do, but I'm not so high and mighty that I think I am better or more ethical than those who do hunt that way.

I agree with entropy.

But I would go further and ask what does ethics have to do with hunting? And what are the ethics, anyway? Assuming you consume the meat, any type of proficient hunting is more “ethical” than the slaughterhouse. But bottom line, deer rate a better fate than cattle? On what basis?

buck460XVR said:

^^^I agree. Just yesterday at my wife's family Christmas, bunch of us "guys" were talking ice fishing. I asked my BIL(married to her sister) if there was still a slot size on Walleyes on the lake he fished/had their lake home on. He said yes there was, but he generally went by "Ice House Regs". When I asked him what that was he said, once you get them to your ice house and cook them up, they are within the slot. He then went on to say how folks like him and the rest of the locals that pay the taxes on their lake homes deserve to be able to take whatever they want. This is the mindset I get from many folks. I know of a few guys that are excellent hunters, still they feel that sneaking onto private property they don't have permission to hunt, or taking home something outta season or taken by means other than legal, just makes the hunt just that much more special. On more than one occasion, I had to excuse myself from a hunt/fishing trip because of the knowledge that those folks were going to be there. I was not afraid to let others know why. Turning one's head and letting others get away with that kind of crap is, IMHO, about as unethical as one can get.

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Everything you are complaining about relates to legality, not ethics. They are two different things.

There is a high fence operation not far from me.
I've stopped my Jeep and gotten out, tried to snap pics of them (140-170 inch deer) and they just stand there, this during hunting season.
15-50 yards.
Pathetic.

I wouldn't mind a canned hunt, off season, lets say for a pig.
Something to do, w recurve.
But most places so small...........I don't think them to be even a half arsed hunt.
So have yet to go.

Coworker did a vid of a boar hunt..........it was .................different.
Found another video somebody else posted of the same place...........same field...........

Sorry, but even for a canned hunt, that's not enough sport for me.
To each his own.

rpenmanparker said:

Everything you are complaining about relates to legality, not ethics. They are two different things.

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Making the choice to ignore hunting and fishing regs and property boundaries, is part of one's personal ethics. Ethics has often been described as doing the right thing, even when no-one else is around. Many folks claim, it ain't illegal unless you get caught. Pretty much an ethics thing to me. Being oblivious to others breaking fish and game regs is also a choice we make based on our ethics.

rpenmanparker said:

What does ethics have to do with hunting?

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This from one of the booklets we use at the hunter safety course I help with........

While hunting laws preserve wildlife, ethics preserve the hunter’s opportunity to hunt. Because ethics generally govern behavior that affects public opinion of hunters, ethical behavior ensures that hunters are welcome and hunting areas stay open.

Ethics generally cover behavior that has to do with issues of fairness, respect, and responsibility not covered by laws. For instance, it’s not illegal to be rude to a landowner when hunting on his or her property or to be careless and fail to close a pasture gate after opening it, but most hunters agree that discourteous and irresponsible behavior is unethical.

Then there are ethical issues that are just between the hunter and nature. For example, an animal appears beyond a hunter’s effective range for a clean kill. Should the hunter take the shot anyway and hope to get lucky? Ethical hunters would say no.

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One major quandary many law abiding, ethical hunters encounter. You come across a deer badly wounded, and doubt it can ever recover, but do not have the proper tag or weapon need to make it a legal kill. You do not have cell phone coverage in the area and going back to the truck to alert authorities will mean hours till the animal's suffering can be diminished, even if the animal is there when you get back. Do you do the ethical thing or the legal thing.

Sorry, but saying ethics has nuttin' to do with hunting makes me wonder how much ethics plays in other parts of one's life.

Today's culture demands everything be put up for a public vote, before any personal action can be taken.
And it must be fully documented on social media.

Or

You just go by the old ways and do what is needed and keep things to yourself.

Flip a coin.

Now the jerks that shot off the road, by my landowner';s house, in the dark........that wounded the buck I saw in the cornfield before legal light............
if they were in a Ford truck I think their fine should be double.

They broke the law...........and were unethical LOL

buck460XVR said:

One major quandary many law abiding, ethical hunters encounter. You come across a deer badly wounded, and doubt it can ever recover, but do not have the proper tag or weapon need to make it a legal kill. You do not have cell phone coverage in the area and going back to the truck to alert authorities will mean hours till the animal's suffering can be diminished, even if the animal is there when you get back. Do you do the ethical thing or the legal thing.

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The legal thing. Notify the DNR, and follow their directions. Quite frankly, I'd follow the Sgt. Schultz approach.

rpenmanparker said:

I agree with entropy. What does ethics have to do with hunting? And what are the ethics, anyway? Assuming you consume the meat, any type of proficient hunting is more “ethical” than the slaughterhouse. But bottom line, deer rate a better fate than cattle? On what basis?

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That's not what I said.

Okay, so now we see the term "canned hunt". This thread started with deer, but I'm going to shift gears and go with the "southern gentlemens'" "quail hunt". Y'all know the one I'm talking about... where they pen raise the birds and release them the evening beforehand? The "hunt" where those city fellers pay big bucks to watch the dogs work, but the guide walks into the brush and kick starts the bird? The "hunters" are guaranteed so many pre-processed birds at the end of the day whether they actually manage to shoot any or not. So basically, a bunch of city fellers stomp around the brush with guns, make a lot of noise, spend the evening drinking, and brag to their friends about what a great "hunt" they had.

In case y'all can't tell, that ain't my idea of bird hunting. Back when I fooled with a shotgun a little, I had a much better time shooting 5-stand wobble trap. I found it some challenging.

If they are going to eat the birds , I see it as know different than buying turkey at the grocery store , it's just a way more expensive .

red rick said:

If they are going to eat the birds , I see it as know different than buying turkey at the grocery store , it's just a way more expensive .

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True. However, the released birds aren't conditioned from hatching to survive in the wild. The ones that didn't get shot will be lucky to make it another 36hrs dealing with exposure to the elements, predation, generally not knowing how to fend for themselves. It's some differences between a wild animal vs the same animal domesticated.

Hookeye said:

Coworker did a vid of a boar hunt..........it was .................different.
Found another video somebody else posted of the same place...........same field...........

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I'm wondering how the owner of the "Wilderness Hunting Lodge" keeps a straight face when someone pays him to shoot one of the pigs in his pen.

Hookeye said:

Coworker did a vid of a boar hunt..........it was .................different.
Found another video somebody else posted of the same place...........same field...........

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Did he ever shoot it? I think he was using the wrong tool for the job....or should have walked up closer.

entropy said:

That's not what I said.

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Didn’t mean to suggest it was. I should have separated the two thoughts better. I meant I agreed with you and also believed the rest, not that it was what you said. Sorry for the confusion. See my edit.

buck460XVR said:

Making the choice to ignore hunting and fishing regs and property boundaries, is part of one's personal ethics. Ethics has often been described as doing the right thing, even when no-one else is around. Many folks claim, it ain't illegal unless you get caught. Pretty much an ethics thing to me. Being oblivious to others breaking fish and game regs is also a choice we make based on our ethics.



This from one of the booklets we use at the hunter safety course I help with........



One major quandary many law abiding, ethical hunters encounter. You come across a deer badly wounded, and doubt it can ever recover, but do not have the proper tag or weapon need to make it a legal kill. You do not have cell phone coverage in the area and going back to the truck to alert authorities will mean hours till the animal's suffering can be diminished, even if the animal is there when you get back. Do you do the ethical thing or the legal thing.

Sorry, but saying ethics has nuttin' to do with hunting makes me wonder how much ethics plays in other parts of one's life.

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I see your point. I would just never call a bank robber unethical. I would call him dishonest. Just semantics. Carry on.

Laphroaig said:

IMO the game laws dictate what is ethical.

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.....and in many cases, ethics dictate game laws. Many of our game laws have nuttin' to do with controlling numbers, but are created to promote fair chase, equal opportunities for hunters and an attempt to keep the kill humane. Local ethics and traditions like hunting with dogs and the use of buckshot, also dictate game laws. Changes in game laws and regs many times come about with changes in hunter ethics. Used to be baiting deer was illegal in most parts of the country. When I lived and hunted in Minnesota, it was illegal to hunt more than 6 feet off the ground and to use any kind of release when bow hunting. All were illegal once, because ethically, at the time, they seemed to be cheating or not typical of fair chase.