1911 Reliability for Self Defense?

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This 1911 has 26k+ through it. I have had to replace a broken extractor and have had to re-stake the plunger tube once. I keep a round count on a spreadsheet and note of any malfunctions. This gun will run 3.5k at at 100%. Sometimes 4k at 100%. The recoil spring is the weak link.

I have another 1911 (different brand that cost more) with 15k through it that won't run 100 rounds without a stovepipe.

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There must be a cleaning or two in there, right?

Yes, I thoroughly clean any gun I shoot after every range trip, and with this particular Colt 1911 all range trips have seen less than 500 rounds through it.
 
I love 1911's and have done a lot of tuning and work on mine. Not to pee in anyone's cheerios but on average they are not the most reliable firearm ever invented. Yes its possible to have one be totally reliable, even cheap ones, but they can take a lot of fiddling and hand fitting, spring tuning, extractor tuning, good magazines, and good ammo to make them that way, and will require ongoing maintenance to keep them that way. Modern pistols often generally just work out of the box with anything you put in them. If you shoot 1911's and all of yours always work consider yourself lucky that your missing out on all the fun getting a lemon to work!
 
If one isn't reliable enough for me to carry, I can make it so. The Army taught me how to do that. I do occasionally carry my Taurus PT1911AR; I did have to change out the MIM parts after 13 years of shooting it, though.
 
The search for reliability in a self defense gun can be a long row to hoe. 1911 or anything else. It takes a lot of shooting to prove this out.

It would be nice to get honest reviews on the internet or gun mags but this is simply is not there these days. Brand loyalty, yes. Full page ads yes. Honest reviews? Not so much.
 
The 1911 is an enthusiast’s pistols. In order to keep that gun running you have to, it’s not optional, you have to become your own armorer to a degree. You have to be able to diagnose and fix minor problems on an end user level. If you’re not willing to sign up for that, frankly you have no business running a 1911 for anything other than occasional recreational shooting. If you’re going to put yourself in harm’s way with that gun and you’re not willing to sign up for that, then you need to avoid it. The HK45 is clearly the better choice. For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45 and push come to shove if I’ve got to trust my life to one or the other, it would be the HK45.

Larry Vickers.
 
The machine is just that....dumb and will be the same shot after shot until something wears out or breaks. If the malfunctions don't include breakage or excessively worn parts (springs come to mind), then something external to the gun has caused the problem and blaming the particular pistol for failing isn't really fair. Like playing team sports it only takes one bonehead to cause the whole team to lose sometimes....and when guns are involved sometimes that bonehead is YOU!!

The 1911 can be made VERY reliable...but YOU must hold it properly for each and every shot. Limp wrist it and depending on a whole host of factors and variables it might malfunction when otherwise in perfect condition being fed perfect ammo. I have a Delta 10mm that no woman has successfully fired more than one shot out of without a stoppage, and some men also have problems with it....does that make the gun defective? In my mind...NO, but it also isn't for everyone and places a responsibility on the shooter that many/most pistols don't and this might be the more important issue at hand here.

Some pistols are more sensitive to hold, ammo, magazine...ect than others, but can be totally reliable in most circumstances so long as all of the variables are well controlled. If TOTAL reliability is demanded....you're going to be giving up some possible precision to achieve it being that 'There is no free lunch'. Our 1911's on the Pistol Range at Camp LeJeune had beskillions of rounds through them....to the point of looseness where you almost could remove the slide sideways (kidding...but not by much) but they went BANG every time if you held onto them. These guns were almost impossible to limp-wrist too...they just chugged through magazine after magazine and still could shoot well enough to let you qualify as Expert if you did your part. My Delta's and Kimber are so much tighter it's not even funny...but I also doubt they'd tolerate the abuse that those old range guns did.
 
Eh. One of my favorite carry guns for years was a Springfield Armory two-tone Micro-Compact Loaded -- yep, three-inch barreled 1911. I've carried some stripe of Commander length (4 or 4.25 inch barreled) 1911s for years. In fact, I carried 1911s before we were told by the internet that they were supposed to malfunction. And if they did malfunction, we knew how to quickly clear them and get 'em back up and running. I don't own a 1911 now that I wouldn't feel confident carrying into a situation where I knew my life depended on it.

Some of you youngsters forget that back in the day, there were only two types of handguns: 1911 semi-autos or S&W and Colt revolvers. Doubtful most of those who packed 1911s worried overmuch about their reliability.
 
I fear our words of sage advice are wasted on the youth of today. They already know all that needs knowing.

Sciences like physics, math & chemistry are different now, just ask them. And armed with that knowledge they know that all of what we know is now false.
 
There's a reason instructors roll their eyes at 1911 guys out there. (ironically when they themselves use a 1911 for carbine or competition classes)

It's the pistol that's constantly built wrong by most of the people making them. The mags are fragile, and flawed. Nobody seems to maintain them properly. They rarely get shot enough for the end user to work the bugs out (of the pistol and themselves).

With the correct shooter, they're fine pistols. And reliable. With the wrong shooter, you're far better off with a Glock 41.

Go compete more. Single stack needs circus music and a laugh track. And keep an eye on what the limited 2011 shooters go through to keep their pistols running.
 
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I love 1911's and have done a lot of tuning and work on mine. Not to pee in anyone's cheerios but on average they are not the most reliable firearm ever invented. Yes its possible to have one be totally reliable, even cheap ones, but they can take a lot of fiddling and hand fitting, spring tuning, extractor tuning, good magazines, and good ammo to make them that way, and will require ongoing maintenance to keep them that way. Modern pistols often generally just work out of the box with anything you put in them. If you shoot 1911's and all of yours always work consider yourself lucky that your missing out on all the fun getting a lemon to work!
My Citadel 3 1/2" M1911 has been astonishing.

With good magazines, it's fed everything I've shot in it, and it's got the best out of the box trigger of any M1911 I've ever owned.
 
I love 1911's and have done a lot of tuning and work on mine. Not to pee in anyone's cheerios but on average they are not the most reliable firearm ever invented. Yes its possible to have one be totally reliable, even cheap ones, but they can take a lot of fiddling and hand fitting, spring tuning, extractor tuning, good magazines, and good ammo to make them that way, and will require ongoing maintenance to keep them that way. Modern pistols often generally just work out of the box with anything you put in them. If you shoot 1911's and all of yours always work consider yourself lucky that your missing out on all the fun getting a lemon to work!

1911s are the muscle cars of the pistol world. They are fun, have heart and soul, need constant tinkering to run, can be hot rodded for impressive performance, but they are overpriced, unreliable, and outdated.

The modern polymer striker-fired pistol is the Toyota Camry. It always runs, is reliable, durable, and practical. I would love to have a `70 Cuda for fun on the weekends, but I sure as heck wouldn't put my family in it and drive it on a road trip across the country.

And for performance, a new V6 Camry is faster, handles better, stops better, and more comfortable than 99% of the muscle cars from the 60's and 70's.
 
My caveat: I'm a guy who scrupulously avoids putting myself in harm's way. I'm not police, I'm not an 'operator,' I'm not military, and I don't shoot thousands of rounds a year (as much as I'd like to).

With that said, I agree with the assessment that "modern polymer striker-fired pistol is the Toyota Camry" of the pistol world. Simple, inexpensive, reliable, but not particularly sexy. I carried a 1911 as my CCW for about the first 3 years that I carried. The main reason that I quit carrying it was because of weight and not a reliability issue, though. IMHO, the 1911 was born in an age when every man could reasonably be expected to have some basic knowledge about machines & how to keep them maintained and running. Every man could reasonably be expected to learn or know how to keep his pistol clean and lubed, and to do those things on a somewhat regular basis. Modern polymer striker-fired pistols simply don't require as much maintenance. I think that a properly-built* 1911 can be reliable, but if you're going to carry one, you've also got to commit to a higher level of maintenance than you would with some of the newer pistols.

* = The term "properly built" should not be construed to imply: (1) that it's either a Colt or a copy; or (2) that one must spend upwards of two grand to get a good 1911. It does mean that a 1911 that is so far out of spec that its slide and frame eat each other with each shot . . . . isn't "properly built."
 
Dang. I've got several 1911's.
I initially shoot about 200 rounds mostly HP through the pistol, if there are no malfunctions I call it good with that ammo and mags.
If problem happens, slide locks back with rounds left or doesn't lock back, I'm going to want 200+ rounds (mostly HP) after correction to trust it.
FMJ counts less toward verifying reliability because I don't carry FMJ.
I carry a Delta Elite or Ruger 10mm that have only fired ~500 rounds each but all were HP.
My Ed Brown Special Forces has about 900 rounds through it, mostly FMJ at this point, since proven reliable long ago.
I've not taken any of them to a gunsmith, if a pistol works reliably it doesn't need fixing. (I can "fix" mag related problems ;))
 
I’ll admit the manual of arms for the 1911 is more complicated than for things like glocks. And, I believe, that the laziness of many of today’s young prevents them from wanting to learn anything more difficult than point and shoot.

I frequently see kids at the range fire mag after mag as fast as they can. They’ll hit the target a very few times and be happy. They never realize they might only get a chance for one well placed shot.
 
There's a reason instructors roll their eyes at 1911 guys out there. (ironically when they themselves use a 1911 for carbine or competition classes)

It's the pistol that's constantly built wrong by most of the people making them. The mags are fragile, and flawed. Nobody seems to maintain them properly. They rarely get shot enough for the end user to work the bugs out (of the pistol and themselves).

With the correct shooter, they're fine pistols. And reliable. With the wrong shooter, you're far better off with a Glock 41.

Go compete more. Single stack needs circus music and a laugh track. And keep an eye on what the limited 2011 shooters go through to keep their pistols running.

Yep that's been my experience as well. They are magic in your hands when everything is just right, but there are about 20 ways for them to choke on themselves if they aren't. I'm the only one in our group still competing with one.

The machine is just that....dumb and will be the same shot after shot until something wears out or breaks. If the malfunctions don't include breakage or excessively worn parts (springs come to mind), then something external to the gun has caused the problem and blaming the particular pistol for failing isn't really fair. Like playing team sports it only takes one bonehead to cause the whole team to lose sometimes....and when guns are involved sometimes that bonehead is YOU!!

The 1911 can be made VERY reliable...but YOU must hold it properly for each and every shot. Limp wrist it and depending on a whole host of factors and variables it might malfunction when otherwise in perfect condition being fed perfect ammo. I have a Delta 10mm that no woman has successfully fired more than one shot out of without a stoppage, and some men also have problems with it....does that make the gun defective? In my mind...NO, but it also isn't for everyone and places a responsibility on the shooter that many/most pistols don't and this might be the more important issue at hand here.

Some pistols are more sensitive to hold, ammo, magazine...ect than others, but can be totally reliable in most circumstances so long as all of the variables are well controlled. If TOTAL reliability is demanded....you're going to be giving up some possible precision to achieve it being that 'There is no free lunch'. Our 1911's on the Pistol Range at Camp LeJeune had beskillions of rounds through them....to the point of looseness where you almost could remove the slide sideways (kidding...but not by much) but they went BANG every time if you held onto them. These guns were almost impossible to limp-wrist too...they just chugged through magazine after magazine and still could shoot well enough to let you qualify as Expert if you did your part. My Delta's and Kimber are so much tighter it's not even funny...but I also doubt they'd tolerate the abuse that those old range guns did.

If something has to be used or held just so in order to work I don't consider that reliable. If you ever need it all that is going right out the window and murphy is coming knocking.
 
This thread is starting to give me a headache. The OP question at hand is
  • Does anyone have a 1911 that has gone at least 2000 rounds (assuming normal cleaning/maintenance) without a stoppage of any kind?
  • Would I have to get something like a $3000 Wilson Combat to obtain a 1911 that reliable?
The answer seems to be in the affirmative on the first. Another example is that I have a Springfield Loaded and a Les Baer 1911 that both run like a fat boy after an ice cream truck. The answer to the second is in the negative. There's many fine 1911s at a third of the price of a WC that are simply outstanding weapons.

What is more than amusing is the preponderance of opinion in this thread that the 1911 is a flawed, unreliable weapon. Yes, that one that drove us from The Great War to AFG. That one. I get Vickers' point too on operational understanding and maintenance needed for optimum performance. I generally take those to be good qualities in a man at arms.

Pardon the bluntness, but I think anyone who feels the 1911 is completely outdated, and worthless in a Holy Moses in a Rowboat CQB scenario should take a breath and go back to their XBox.
 
Most of the issues I have run into have been garbage ammo and garbage mag springs.
Don't hesitate to replace those mag springs with Wolffs, at the first sign of trouble. I see a lot of guys
with a nice 1911 running crappy ammo thru it, and then blaming the gun.

OTOH, I never met a 1911A1 I didn't like.
 
I have a cheap "GI Model" 1911 that I've owned for about five years. I don't recall it ever malfunctioning. I really don't know how many rounds it's had through it. I have a lot of handguns and don't really keep track. I am guessing a thousand bare minimum. I only use good quality mags and standard hardball ammo. It's a range toy that I shoot from time to time. A typical range trip is to shoot a box of 50 through it (and through about five other handguns), then take it home and clean it.

Perhaps my experience is different in that my 45acp example is a no-frills model that is probably looser than the expensive ones, plus I only shoot ball out of it. The ammo is almost always my FiL's reloads, and he fiddled with his "recipe" specifically to work well in his 1911.

If I "had" to use my GI 1911 for SD I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed. It goes bang every time and is about as accurate as I am.
 
The OP question at hand is ..."
Good point; forgot to answer that ...
Does anyone have a 1911 that has gone at least 2000 rounds (assuming normal cleaning/maintenance) without a stoppage of any kind?
Yes, a few.
Would I have to get something like a $3000 Wilson Combat to obtain a 1911 that reliable?
No, as others have mentioned, plenty of options out there.

Ah, took a few posts, but someone found a Vickers quote ... I'm starting to take some of what guys like him say with a grain of salt, since I've been around long enough to see the evolution in his public statements and endorsements ... and yes, he's been a shill for H&K since he reportedly a big role in developing the HK-45.
 
My duty 1911 in 9mm (Springfield Range Officer Operator) is reliable. I keep a bad mag in the range bag to force malfunction drills with but don't mix it with my duty mags.

It took about 500 rounds to smooth it out but since then, I make jokes with others in my department about the "reliability" of their Glocks.

Guns are individuals, no matter how CNCed we go with regarding tolerances, and what works well and is accurate in one may not do well in another.
 
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