What’s with the 300 blackout stigma?

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"What is the one thing that the 300 blk does better than any other round that has ever existed?"
Exactly what it does put a round capable of both suppressed subs and near 7.62X39 performance in a short barreled AR15 platform using all abundant 5.56 components except the barrel and use an abundant and economic source of brass for reloading.
"It has the undeniable advantage of feeding through regular AR mags and magwell if you don't want a dedicated AK mag lower. That's about it."
That's kinda like saying sure Donald Trump's wallet has more money in it, but that's about it.
Nothing like downplaying facts.
 
What is the one thing that the 300 blk does better than any other round that has ever existed?

This will be my thought tonight.

Why does it have to? What round has that quality anyway? I love .308, but it doesnt do anything .30-06 cant do better, which I'm sure can be eclipsed in any category by something anyway.

I like .300 in 110 grains in my AR. Shoots MOA, I can shoot it all day, doesnt cost a ton to reload (though I'm finally out of the Zombie Max bullets I picked up for a song years back, may need to find a new bullet) and it'll put down any game I need to inside of my standard hunting ranges up here.

Pretty much nothing not to like.

Can you do better with 7.62x39? Probably in a bolt gun, but it's a pain to find cheap brass and I dont care for the AK platform as opposed to the AR.

And, heck, if I'm shooting a bolt gun I wont bother with .223, 7.62x39 or. 300 BLK, I'll just go to .308 or .30-06, tried and true and I have good accurate guns already.

So I guess for me I like the .300 BLK as a project reloading caliber (I even enjoy cutting down the brass, I'm odd I'll admit it) that's fun to shoot on a nice handy light platform. I also like it for HD, 110s at 2300 will get the job dont and isnt as painful on my ears as .223 (which I learned when I forgot to put ears on ... and didnt notice for 5 rounds of super .300)

Is it the best? Of course not. But I like it. Do I like other calibers more? Yep.
 
What is the one thing that the 300 blk does better than any other round that has ever existed?

This will be my thought tonight.
It lets me shoot a wide variety of 30 caliber cast bullet designs through my AR for just the cost of a barrel change. Shooting cast in 223 is much more of a challenge, but in 30 there are tons of good bullets to choose from and you aren't trying to drive them to their absolute limits.

Someone will probably mention 9mm for that role, but 9mm requires a barrel, bolt, mag adapter, buffer and spring change. And 9mm mags.
 
What is the one thing that the 300 blk does better than any other round that has ever existed?

It will use an unmodified 30 round magazines and hold 30 rounds. Use unmodified AR-15/M-16/M-4 bolt. Use regular gas impingement system that can shoot super and subsonic without adjustment to the gas system.

The one thing that does better than any other round is illustrates what makes or breaks a given round, taking it from wildcat to mainstream.

J D Jones version enjoyed a fairly mild following (kind of like Sony beta video and DAT tapes and for the same reasons) but one of them included our own rsilvers,

300 Fireball is the way to go.
rsilvers, Oct 20, 2009
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ll-vs-7-62x39mm-for-a-30-cal-ar-build.390186/

Being AAC's Research and Development Director Robert Silvers, made a few changes in some dimensions (none even as much as .020”) and it was submitted to SAAMI so it is an open standard for which any company can make guns or ammo. Then got Remington to mass produce the ammunition to help as well as a lot of marketing. Today it has many followers and is a success story vs just another obscure wildcat.
 
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So I guess for me I like the .300 BLK as a project reloading caliber (I even enjoy cutting down the brass, I'm odd I'll admit it..

That’s not odd to me, that’s how I got into it too.

 
That’s not odd to me, that’s how I got into it too.



Cool.

I chuckle when I hear people gripe about the drudgery of reloading or cleaning guns. I happen to enjoy both tasks nearly as much as the shooting. Its dad's quiet alone time in the basement. With two young kids I get precious little quiet or alone time.
 
It’s a slitting saw for use on a milling machine. It will cut 1000 to length in less than 30 min.

A few more details here.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...e-cutter-test-2&highlight=300+blk+case+cutter

The last one I built was for a manufacturer and I can’t post a video of that setup but it’s more of an arbor setup that’s direct drive from the motor 3000+ rpm but the setup above is more than most hobby guys would need.
 
"That's kinda like saying sure Donald Trump's wallet has more money in it, but that's about it.
Nothing like downplaying facts.
Money is nothing less than an universal instrument of exchange so quite an analogy you have there. Feeding through AR mags/magwell may matter to some, but literally any caliber can easily be loaded subsonic; the BO is no exception, one way or the other. Much larger calibers with much heavier bullets are abundant if energy/momentum needs to be increased as ½mv² applies. If not, just shoot .223. You don't even need to bother to neck it up. Simple as that.

In the realm of non-magwelled dedicated x39 AR lowers and, alternatively, .50 Beowulf / .458 Socom / .450 Bushmaster etc.etc.etc. the BO is an answer to a question that's pointless by definition. It's just another round among countless others. I think facts - taking all of them in consideration and not just cherrypicking select few - do all the downplaying in this case. Facts are the very reason I gave up on BO after being a very early adopter and initially excited about the possibility. It simply wasn't there.
 
I don't really need to make such claims. It just does more. Well-proven and widely used as a subsonic round - hey, even my early 90's service rifle, Sako RK95/M92S has a suppressor - it exceeds the legal minimum of 1700J/1254ft-lbs at 100m/110yd with a 123gr or heavier JSP for Finnish class 3 game (whitetail, fallow deer, red deer, sika deer etc.) with factory ammo, surplus ammo is dirt cheap, common and plentiful when you can't be bothered to reload for plinking.

If you really want to select a barrel twist common with the BO off the shelf, any gunsmith can turn one from a blank if need be. I don't really see the point, though. If you want a full power + subsonic combo rifle at ~200gr .30 caliber bullet weight range, regardless of whether you shoot factory ammo or reload, .308Win wipes the floor with either and has done so for decades. My R25 groups 1" at 150m/165yd with Lapua B416 200gr FMJBT subsonics like a clockwork with Jaki Super Classic reflex/telescopic can and reaches out to 400-ish yards at comparable <MOA accuracy with off-the-shelf Hornady 165gr GMX Superformance International. That's pretty much the only suppressed, sub- & supersonic rifle caliber AR I've realized I need, or want for that matter. Its OEM 1:10 twist stabilizes even 220gr reloads nicely, so I wouldn't imagine identical twist on my Mini 30 has any problems doing the same, even though ~180gr are the heaviest bullets I've loaded for it so far.

As far as intermediate rounds and rifle designs other than the AR are concerned, I think I've made my point rather clear by now. I've experimented with the BO myself, and concluded that it doesn't do a thing for me that other rounds wouldn't do better so I gave up on it for a solid reason. And it doesn't even have anywhere near the case capacity for duplicating my favorite, hot, long range 7.62x39 compression loads either.

Like I've said a few times, if you like it and think it fits the bill for whatever you want to use it for, go for it. It has the undeniable advantage of feeding through regular AR mags and magwell if you don't want a dedicated AK mag lower. That's about it.
No, it doesn't. The twist rate of neither it or the .308 are fast enough for 220-240gr bullets. I've seen stability issues reported with 200gr subsonic loads. There is a reason for the .300's 1:7" twist.

So the 7.62x39 can exceed it if overloaded in a boltgun? Ok, I'll give you that. :confused:

As I said, the .308's twist is not fast enough. The common 1-10" will stabilize perhaps up to 200gr bullets but nothing heavier but some rifles are even slower. Not to mention the much larger case makes subsonic loads more problematic. They won't cycle an AR action and the cartridge does not fit a standard AR. Subsonic .300BO functions in AR's and a braced .300 pistol makes for a very compact package. Those are all significant differences.

Not to mention that the .300BO is FAR more efficient in shorter barrels which is, well, what it was designed for.

If it doesn't fit your needs, that is fine. I like the cartridge but don't require everyone else to. However, you are not entitled to your own facts and some of the arguments against the cartridge are just made-up. At some point you have to concede that the folks who designed it actually knew what they were doing.

I'm sure the fact that Finland uses a 7.62x39 as its standard issue service rifle and the US uses the AR have some effect on our perception. Do you realize how popular the AR platform is over here and how many millions of people own them?
 
Money is nothing less than an universal instrument of exchange so quite an analogy you have there. Feeding through AR mags/magwell may matter to some, but literally any caliber can easily be loaded subsonic; the BO is no exception, one way or the other. Much larger calibers with much heavier bullets are abundant if energy/momentum needs to be increased as ½mv² applies. If not, just shoot .223. You don't even need to bother to neck it up. Simple as that.

In the realm of non-magwelled dedicated x39 AR lowers and, alternatively, .50 Beowulf / .458 Socom / .450 Bushmaster etc.etc.etc. the BO is an answer to a question that's pointless by definition. It's just another round among countless others. I think facts - taking all of them in consideration and not just cherrypicking select few - do all the downplaying in this case. Facts are the very reason I gave up on BO after being a very early adopter and initially excited about the possibility. It simply wasn't there.
You gloss over very important facts because they don't fit your narrative. Sure, you can load ANYTHING subsonic. But does it have the twist rate to support heavy-for-caliber bullets? Usually not because it requires a faster than standard twist rate.

As I've said for the third time now, the big bores are great for subsonic use. They have the twist rate for heavier bullets, plus mass and diameter and do not have to expand to be effective. However, on the upper end, you pay a substantial recoil penalty. The .300BO is a pop gun no matter what. You're also paying a lot more for bullets. It's comical that on one hand, the .300 is denigrated because .223 bullets are cheaper but somehow the .45's and .50's are not? Which is it?

Standard AR mags are not a point that can be so easily dismissed. 7.62x39 is problematic in the AR and not very popular at all.
 
You gloss over very important facts because they don't fit your narrative. Sure, you can load ANYTHING subsonic. But does it have the twist rate to support heavy-for-caliber bullets?
It's not a narrative but a cold hard fact. "Heavy for caliber" is little more than an excuse or a crutch when you can choose a much larger caliber if you really need subsonic velocities and terminal ballistics in terms of energy and momentum. Choose a barrel twist to your liking and be done with it. Twist rate is a compromise for any caliber like I already said (and have repeated, ad nauseum...) and, speaking of attempts at twisting, BO is no exception.

It's an one trick pony. It feeds through the AR magwell. Then again, so does .50 Beowulf, which makes E0-oriented point of shooting it subsonic moot, to say the least. That's about it.
 
It's not a narrative but a cold hard fact. "Heavy for caliber" is little more than an excuse or a crutch when you can choose a much larger caliber if you really need subsonic velocities and terminal ballistics in terms of energy and momentum. Choose a barrel twist to your liking and be done with it. Twist rate is a compromise for any caliber like I already said (and have repeated, ad nauseum...) and, speaking of attempts at twisting, BO is no exception.

It's an one trick pony. It feeds through the AR magwell. Then again, so does .50 Beowulf, which makes E0-oriented point of shooting it subsonic moot, to say the least. That's about it.
Again, you gloss over important but inconvenient "facts", which is what makes it absolutely a narrative.

Heavy for caliber bullets penetrate better. Period. Whether they expand or not. When you have an expanding bullet that needs to operate at subsonic velocities, you increase effect by increasing mass. Not a crutch at all.

As I'm saying now for at least the 4th time, yes the big bores are great for suppressed use but they are not without their drawbacks. Increased recoil with supersonic loads, increased projectile cost, rainbow trajectory and decreased magazine capacity. One more major point with the .300BO, is that it is compatible with handgun suppressors with subs. I shoot tons of .45's and quite a few .50's, I know how much those bullets cost. In addition to increased cost or effort of those big cases. Whereas .300BO brass is cheap and available or easily formed from free .223 brass.

You can absolutely under-stabilize a bullet, as is the case of using very heavy bullets with a slower twist but you cannot over-stabilize a bullet. You can spin one too fast for its construction but you cannot over-stabilize it. Which I guess is why most folks report sub-MOA accuracy with the .300 using supersonic loads and 110-130gr bullets.

"Choose a barrel twist to your liking and be done with it" sounds good, as if we can order rifles off a menu. But in the real world, the difference between buying a .300BO or building something else is huge. Building something else to accomplish the same thing is rather illogical.
 
From a post you recently replied to, here's some .308 ballistics from short barrels. Note the 147-150gr loads at 2000-2070fps out of an 8" barrel. Please note that the .300BO will run right with these in the same pistol length barrels with a WHOLE LOT less recoil and blast. Or about 1900fps with a 150gr out of an 8.5" barrel with a third the powder charge. Because the .300 utilizes commonly used handgun powders, which makes it far more efficient in a handgun length barrel. Again, it's not about the .300 being able to do what the .308 does, because it can't and we don't expect it to. It's about the .308 or any other cartridge being able to do what the .300 does right out of the box. Those that can either require custom barrels and/or come with caveats of their own that cannot be ignored, unless you have an agenda.

So sure, the .308 can do everything the .300 can do in a heavier rifle, with a longer barrel, a lot more powder and a custom barrel, as long as you don't expect subsonics to function in a semi-auto. Did I leave out any facts, convenient or otherwise? :confused:

https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/30...-length-and-velocity-a-six-inch-308-bolt-gun/

index.php
 
"It's not a narrative but a cold hard fact. "
No you gloss over the facts, the fact is using all 5.56 parts and mags is a very desirable trait by many, arguing that a 460 Wheatherby Magnum can be loaded subsonic doesn't change that fact.
And the cold hard fact is having a faster twist than ideal just doesn't wreak havok, especially in the Blackout no matter how many times you repeat that misinformation
 
Subsonic in a rifle is just plain messed up. It severely limits your range. If you hunt at night (mostly a military application) I can see an advantage but for most people it isn't a thing.

Does anyone honestly believe a feral hog can't hear well enough to determine where a subsonic suppressed round came from. They hear better than humans. And deer hear better than hogs. Anyone ever wonder why a full on hog eradication program hasn't worked is 3 states. I guess not.

The 300 HAM'R was developed for hogs. It isn't subsonic. It's a 30-30 for the AR. I'm not seeing a suppressed 300 BLK as a hog or even a deer rifle. More deer have been killed with a 30-30 in the US than any other cartridge. The 300 BLK isn't even up to that level because.... it's a ballistic pig past 100 yds. subsonic.

People buy 300 BLK because they are enamored by the suppressor/subsonic thing. You can suppress just about any rifle/cartridge combination. Subsonic is a marketing wonder just like PCC's. It gets old real fast, especially if you want to kill something when the sun is up.
 
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I don't care what the critter hears, it's what I don't hear that matters. I can shoot my subsonic 300 BO without ear-pro and enjoy it.
 
I don't care what the critter hears, it's what I don't hear that matters. I can shoot my subsonic 300 BO without ear-pro and enjoy it.

Well then, lets just all start hunting with subsonic cartridges. Or better yet, lets just all take up archery hunting.

You do know you can suppress a supersonic cartridge, right?
 
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Well then, lets just all start hunting with subsonic cartridges. Or better yet, lets just all take up archery hunting.

Why does everyone have to do what I am doing or take up archery?

I chose to build a 300 BO carbine, suppress it, and use subsonic ammo so I can, at my choosing, hunt or compete without ear-pro and not ring my ears. I certainly don't do all my hunting and competitive shooting with it but there are times when it fits my needs and my fancy so I use it. Other times for other tasks I chose something else.
 
Anyone seeing the animosity now?

This thread is the ironic opposite equivalent of the dreaded “what’s the best caliber for rifles?” post, to which everyone replies, “there is no best but only what suits your need” or some flavor of that comment.

Yet, in this case it’s brought out so many people that take the mantra of “this does nothing that suits me, therefor it’s irrelevant and no one else should ever need it”.

The irony and self consumption is thick.
 
Exactly beeenbag. Guess the op got an answer as to the dislike or stigma. I don't generally criticize people's choices, only as I get older it's disappointing to see misinformation repeated. Wrong answer told often enough becomes the common answer assumed to be right. The 300 BLK does what it was designed for - 30 caliber in a 556 AR package. Not everyone wants or needs it, but hey use what ya like. Just follow 2 simple rules: don't bash others who don't like it & don't expect/demand others to agree with you.
 
Again, you gloss over important but inconvenient "facts", which is what makes it absolutely a narrative.
You're entitled to your opinion, like always, but did you really make a single argument that isn't subjective on a practical level?

o Penetration/energy/momentum? Increase caliber, bullet mass and sectional density (far beyond what's possible with BO)
o Cost of ammo/bullets/reloads? Shoot .223, it's even cheaper (do you really need max penetration with every round of thousands, to the point that cost even matters? :) )
o Standard mags/lower? Shoot .223, see above.
o Still insist on shooting heavy-for-caliber loads? Get a new barrel, there's nothing to it.
o Off-the-shelf subsonic ammo / its availability in the US? .45ACP for 230-300(+)gr factory ammo, rimfire for cost-efficiency.
o AR with measurably better hypersonic ballistic performance? CMMG Mutant, LAR-47, MARCK-15 etc. (AK mags are common and cheap too) or a AR10-platform rifle.

So... what's left at this point? The situation where one absolutely insists on having a standard AR15 lower with standard mags, with a barrel installed on a stock gun by the manufacturer, in a caliber no larger or smaller than .30, regardless of the cost of factory ammo but reloading for maximum ener^H^H^H^H terminal ballistic penetration for the said caliber at every round with heavy-for-caliber bullets, seemingly including plinking ammo.

If you want to rig it this way, then the BO is the be-all, end-all round of the entire universe.

Highly off topic but there's distinct relevance in the situation: This reminds me of a similar spontaneously facepalmy feeling elicited, back in 2006 I was driving one of our show cars, Veilside "11th Commandment" (a Mk.4 Supra of Tokyo Motor Show fame) just north of Düsseldorf on Autobahn. At 140-ish MPH cruise speed a bright yellow Lamborghini Diablo flashed to pass and I gave way. And chase. The Lambo floored it, so did I, and flew by him all the way to 200+MPH, with more than twice the power he had on his disposal. He followed me to a truck stop fifty miles later and exhibited a galore of excuses. But yours is modified! (Heck, yes) But yours is Toyota! (Yep, or actually built on Toyota bodyshell by Veilside) But my Lambo has wider tires! (So it seems) But mine is more expensive! (Actually, ordering one of these from Veilside set you back $150k or so, not including the price of the Supra) But mine is LAMBORGHINI!!! (File a complaint, then, if they sold it to you as the the ultimate king of Autobahn)

Nice Lambo, though. Looked good. Teenagers hang posters of it on their bedroom walls. Not my cup of tea, though, because I prefer real-world performance over hopes, dreams and perceived imagery.

Deja vu...:rofl:
 
"Anyone seeing the animosity now?"
Yep, it's funny some people only want to see top end performance, so they focus on that and put blinders on to anything that doesn't fit that narrative.
While I'm more than familiar with performance (note screen name) sometimes it's just nice to drive down by the river, drop the tailgate and crack a cold one. The race car doesn't work at all for that, however in between rounds at the racetrack it's fun as hell to grudge race my lifted 4X4.
Look I get it some people don't like beer or bacon and hate 'Merica.
I have 223/5.56 ARs in fact a couple for burning ammo (retro ish XM177 and M4 ish with Echo trigger) and for accuracy (A2 service match, Mk12 ish build and a SDM ish build)
I have several rimfires, got AR10s too one 308 one 243 when I really want to reach out.
Got a thumper AR too .450.
So even though I obviously realize a Blackout isn't the be all end all, but for a SBR ish AR build that's pretty versatile and really economic the Blackout puts another good tool in the shed.

The Blackout is what it is and does what it does, and does it pretty well. If that's not something you want to do and you're really interested in doing something else fine. But quit with the I don't like beer because it doesn't work to wash dishes or I don't like beer cause cocaine is your thing analogies
 
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So even though I obviously realize a Blackout isn't the be all end all, but for a SBR ish AR build that's pretty versatile and really economic the Blackout puts another good tool in the shed.
Very well said. That sums it up nicely. One caliber among many others; nothing more, nothing less.
 
Dear Lord:what:!
Let's see if I got it right.

9mm PPC is old hat due to 300BO ; yet 300 is just a new hat 'cause it's no better than 762X39. Now we all kmow that 762X39 is ballistically just another 30-30. Yet when 308 came along, all others got handed their collective hats.

So, there it is, it's 308. Yes.


So I want to know, what's with all the 308 stigma again please:alien:?

Everyone please enjoy the rest of their weekend, family, friends. And go shoot SOMETHING even if it's that lowly 22LR :scrutiny:
 
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