What’s with the 300 blackout stigma?

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The arguments I have made are purely objective. I have no emotional investment in the .300BO. Among the guns I own, those that chamber it are soulless tools. I'm not one of those who goes on emotional tirades defending something just because I bought it. The .300BO is not the be-all, end-all of anything. Actually it has a fairly narrow area of application. I happen to like what it does and it appears to anyone with half a lick of sense that there are plain few that do exactly what it does, the way it does it. It.....

Is a light cartridge with very little recoil that is very efficient in short barrels and as a suppressor host. It has the proper twist for heavy, subsonic loads and adequately covers 100yds in that role. It also does very well with 110-130gr supersonic loads that adequately covers 250yds. It fits into a standard AR platform with only an upper or barrel change and uses standard magazines that can be loaded to capacity. Said AR platform works either super or subsonic. It does all of this VERY economically with affordable factory ammo, cheap brass (or even free) and cheap bullets. There have been several cartridges put forth as alternatives, supposed better at doing what the .300BO does but they either do not do everything the .300 does or they do so with considerable drawbacks.

7.62x39 - Twist too slow, tapered case does not do well in AR's, too few boltguns and oddball .311" bore. You can buy a custom barrel but for what gain?
.308 - Twist too slow, large capacity case inefficient in short barrels, inefficient with subsonic use, fits the much more portly AR10.
.45ACP - Subsonic use only, few guns that chamber it, few decent hunting bullets.
.450/.458.50 - Great for subsonic use but we don't need 500gr bullets to kill deer. Greatly reduced magazine capacity. Expensive guns/uppers. Much more expensive bullets and brass. Big recoil penalty for supersonic loads. Rainbow trajectory.

Seriously, how much maneuvering must one do to convince themselves that another cartridge does what the .300 does? Sure, there are better subsonic cartridges, I'd love the .45ACP or even .45WinMag in a light platform but they don't exist. Big bores are much more efficient and I wouldn't have to pay a couple dollars each for specialty .300 bullets. Sure, there are myriad better supersonic cartridges. Despite all this maneuvering, there are very few that do both well.
 
I wanted a suppressed AR SBR for home defense, and chose a 9” 300BLK for the reason that the cartridge was designed around that shorter length barrel, whereas the 5.56 loses a considerable amount of velocity out of short barrels of similar length. It’s also convienent that besides the barrel, it shares the same components as 5.56. Although I keep it ready with 110gr supersonic loads, the versatility of easily switching to sub-sonics is nice.
 
The arguments I have made are purely objective.
See the list on post #147. Read it. Again. Anything and everything that can be said in defense of the BO applies to a plethora of other calibers, except for highly artificial "not available bone stock at LGS". Which as a point is objectively moot when you think about it. I hope you do now.
 
See the list on post #147. Read it. Again
I did read it. Your analogy is a joke and the rest is outlining all the effort you would go to to duplicate the .300BO at significantly greater outlay of cash and effort or duplicate it with several guns.


"o Penetration/energy/momentum? Increase caliber, bullet mass and sectional density (far beyond what's possible with BO)"
We've been through the big bores.

"o Cost of ammo/bullets/reloads? Shoot .223, it's even cheaper (do you really need max penetration with every round of thousands, to the point that cost even matters? :) )"
Uh yeah, I think we know we can shoot other cartridges for less money. How is this even relevant?

"o Standard mags/lower? Shoot .223, see above."
See above.

"o Still insist on shooting heavy-for-caliber loads? Get a new barrel, there's nothing to it."
Get a new barrel for what? Buy a rifle and then a custom barrel just to do the same thing the .300BO does? Are custom barrels growing on trees in Finland?

"o Off-the-shelf subsonic ammo / its availability in the US? .45ACP for 230-300(+)gr factory ammo, rimfire for cost-efficiency."
One.....more.....time. Where are the .45ACP rifles??? So your solution is to buy yet another rifle, this time a hypothetical one and give up supersonic capability? Yeah rimfires, we have a few dozen of those. How is this relevant?

"o AR with measurably better hypersonic ballistic performance? CMMG Mutant, LAR-47, MARCK-15 etc. (AK mags are common and cheap too) or a AR10-platform rifle."
We are fully aware that we can buy a rifle chambered in a cartridge that offers better supersonic capability. Yet give up the capability to shoot heavy subsonics. Haven't we been through this too??? AR10's, heavier, bulkier rifles, been through that too. Or are you implying that significantly better supersonic performance is possible with the 7.62x39? Been there, done that too. For what, 100fps?


Anything and everything that can be said in defense of the BO applies to a plethora of other calibers, except for highly artificial "not available bone stock at LGS". Which as a point is objectively moot when you think about it. I hope you do now.
"Highly artificial"??? Economy either matters or it doesn't. You can't claim cheap ammo as a feather in the 7.62x39's cap and then say economy doesn't matter? I guess it only applies when it fits your narrative, as I said.

I have no issues buying or building custom guns or factory guns with custom features. However, I try to apply some logic and only do so to procure something I can't buy off the shelf. It is absolutely absurd to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to buy/build something that is not a .300BO to 'try' to do exactly what the .300BO does, just to be different. In this context, it is beyond absurd. We're not talking about building dream guns but basic tools.

Bottom line here is that the .300BO does exactly what I want it to, with either a 110gr Barnes at supersonic velocity or a 200-240gr expanding bullet at subsonic velocity and it does it with an off the shelf rifle ($400 Ruger American) or an easily put together braced AR pistol ($800 Aero/Stoner). The cartridge is also compatible with my existing pistol suppressor. No custom barrels. No trying to make an AR function with cheap Russian ammo or worrying about twist rates. Despite the absurd rhetoric posted here, no other cartridges does the same thing at the same level of expense and effort. If you would rather go to a whole lot more trouble and expense to build a 7.62x39 or .308 or whatever else to do the same thing, you have my blessing.
 
"Which as a point is objectivelymoot when you think about it."
LOL like we've been saying a FACT is OBJECTIVELY MOOT when it doesn't fit your narrative.
 
Subsonic in a rifle is just plain messed up. It severely limits your range. If you hunt at night (mostly a military application) I can see an advantage but for most people it isn't a thing.

Does anyone honestly believe a feral hog can't hear well enough to determine where a subsonic suppressed round came from. They hear better than humans. And deer hear better than hogs. Anyone ever wonder why a full on hog eradication program hasn't worked is 3 states. I guess not.

The 300 HAM'R was developed for hogs. It isn't subsonic. It's a 30-30 for the AR. I'm not seeing a suppressed 300 BLK as a hog or even a deer rifle. More deer have been killed with a 30-30 in the US than any other cartridge. The 300 BLK isn't even up to that level because.... it's a ballistic pig past 100 yds. subsonic.

People buy 300 BLK because they are enamored by the suppressor/subsonic thing. You can suppress just about any rifle/cartridge combination. Subsonic is a marketing wonder just like PCC's. It gets old real fast, especially if you want to kill something when the sun is up.
Yes, it does limit your range, that is obvious. Do you know how many shots I've taken at deer over 100yds in the last ten years? Zero. I hunt all season long with a flintlock or a pistol. The range limitation is only an issue if you make it one.

My hearing is damaged. Hunting with a subsonic .300BO is advantageous if I want to keep what I have left. It also works very well in my current situation, where it is possible to hunt my property but using a suppressed .300BO keeps my neighbors from complaining.

Do they have many hogs in Washington? Down here lots of folks report many more opportunities to shoot hogs en masse with suppressed AR's. Hunted with a suppressor at all? In only the first few outings I could tell right off that critters are less alerted when using a suppressor.

The question is not why we hunt with suppressors. The question is why would you have such a negative opinion, based on so little factual information? It's always comical when folks dismiss something as "hype, marketing or tacticool" just because they either don't like it or don't understand it. I like something you don't like so I must be a moron duped by marketing or a mall ninja? That's what you're saying. Wouldn't it be easier to ask why, rather than make assumptions and inflammatory statements?
 
Yes, it does limit your range, that is obvious. Do you know how many shots I've taken at deer over 100yds in the last ten years? Zero. I hunt all season long with a flintlock or a pistol. The range limitation is only an issue if you make it one.

I've never limited myself to 100 yards being a meat hunter. 300 yards was my limit. I guess you don't eat feral hogs though.:D

My hearing is damaged. Hunting with a subsonic .300BO is advantageous if I want to keep what I have left. It also works very well in my current situation, where it is possible to hunt my property but using a suppressed .300BO keeps my neighbors from complaining.

I can see an advantage there.

Do they have many hogs in Washington? Down here lots of folks report many more opportunities to shoot hogs en masse with suppressed AR's. Hunted with a suppressor at all? In only the first few outings I could tell right off that critters are less alerted when using a suppressor.

No we don't have a problem with hogs in WA. Looks like you do however. With feral hogs overrunning your state and practically no restrictions on hunting them why do you need a subsonic rifle cartridge. I'm thinking any suppressed AR 5.56 using a good suppressor and 68 grain bullet would be more than adequate for a feral hog. 140 dB is the OSHA limit for safety and there are suppressors out there that will get a 5.56 AR below that. How many rounds are you going use to kill a hog or 3?

https://www.dakotasilencer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Silencer_Sound_Comparsion_chart.pdf


The question is not why we hunt with suppressors. The question is why would you have such a negative opinion, based on so little factual information? It's always comical when folks dismiss something as "hype, marketing or tacticool" just because they either don't like it or don't understand it. I like something you don't like so I must be a moron duped by marketing or a mall ninja? That's what you're saying. Wouldn't it be easier to ask why, rather than make assumptions and inflammatory statements?

I don't have anything against hunting with suppressors. I never said that. I said "Does anyone honestly believe a feral hog can't hear well enough to determine where a subsonic suppressed round came from". The point being that killing hogs shouldn't be so difficult that you need to be that stealth, especially if you're in range and shooting hogs. It's not exactly a spec ops raid on Osama Bin Laden's compound where the hogs are going to shoot back if they can just figure out your position. The 300 BLK is popular because it was developed for the military and therefor a tactical (tacticool) cartridge. I'm pretty sure it wasn't developed as a hog/deer hunting cartridge.

You seem to be quite a sportsman, hunting with FL and pistol. Why not give those hogs a sporting chance with a little muzzle report?
 
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I'm a "meat hunter", whatever that means or how it's relevant to range limitations of your equipment is beyond me. Whether I limit myself to 100yds or not, it's a very long shot where I hunt. Most are within 70yds. Yes, we eat feral hogs, they're mighty tasty. However, there's a difference between hunting hogs and pest control. Give wild hogs a sporting chance? You really don't have a clue.

As I already said, folks that shoot hundreds of them per year do so at night and with suppressed subsonics. Why? Because they can shoot more of them in a sitting. The .223 is fine if you're brain-shooting one hog. Supersonic .223 pretty much negates the advantage of the suppressor in that application. It has nothing to do with them knowing 'where' it's coming from but whether they associate the sound with a threat or not. Have you ever shot one hog out of a group with an unsuppressed rifle? They immediately scatter in every direction. Why is this associated with clandestine military operations? It's pest control with the best means available. Not mall-ninjas in the corn field.

I guess everybody is an expert, even when they've never done it.
 
Yet, in this case it’s brought out so many people that take the mantra of “this does nothing that suits me, therefor it’s irrelevant and no one else should ever need it”.

Yeah but since when do I have to have a need to own something?

Even my wife with a closet full of shoes she doesn’t wear understands that...
 
I'm a "meat hunter", whatever that means or how it's relevant to range limitations of your equipment is beyond me. Whether I limit myself to 100yds or not, it's a very long shot where I hunt. Most are within 70yds. Yes, we eat feral hogs, they're mighty tasty. However, there's a difference between hunting hogs and pest control. Give wild hogs a sporting chance? You really don't have a clue.

As I already said, folks that shoot hundreds of them per year do so at night and with suppressed subsonics. Why? Because they can shoot more of them in a sitting. The .223 is fine if you're brain-shooting one hog. Supersonic .223 pretty much negates the advantage of the suppressor in that application. It has nothing to do with them knowing 'where' it's coming from but whether they associate the sound with a threat or not. Have you ever shot one hog out of a group with an unsuppressed rifle? They immediately scatter in every direction. Why is this associated with clandestine military operations? It's pest control with the best means available. Not mall-ninjas in the corn field.

I guess everybody is an expert, even when they've never done it.

Got it.

A suppressed 300 BLK is a hog killing machine....so long as it's <100 yards at night.

I'm wondering what they think all of the lights are about, maybe a rescue operation. :D
 
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Guess I need to make up some 300blk hats.
Apparently they would get almost the same response as a maga hat.
 
People don't want hogs to hear shots? Huh? Did I really read that?

Suppressors are great because they protect your hearing. They aren't stealth devices that allow you to sneak up on your prey.
 
People don't want hogs to hear shots? Huh? Did I really read that?

Suppressors are great because they protect your hearing. They aren't stealth devices that allow you to sneak up on your prey.


That's because they're sensitive creatures and muzzle blast is a very traumatic experience. Could ruin the meat.:D
 
People don't want hogs to hear shots? Huh? Did I really read that?

Suppressors are great because they protect your hearing. They aren't stealth devices that allow you to sneak up on your prey.

Reminds me of one time I was bored in the stand and a little buck I didn’t want was sucking up all the corn so I started shooting cactus on either side of him (suppressed subs). He would stop and look in the direction of the impact then go back to eating.

So then I started kicking the side of the stand, same thing. Then I started yelling and waving my hand outside the window and he casually walked off...
 
People don't want hogs to hear shots? Huh? Did I really read that?

Suppressors are great because they protect your hearing. They aren't stealth devices that allow you to sneak up on your prey.
Proven fact by those who kill hundreds of hogs per year that it is done more successfully with suppressed rifles, at night, with thermal gear. You're not gonna mow down an entire group but it will give you more opportunities on the same group. In addition to not spooking every hog within miles of the shot. Giving you more opportunities on more than one group within the same hunting area. We're talking pest control, not hunting.


That's because they're sensitive creatures and muzzle blast is a very traumatic experience. Could ruin the meat.:D
Beware hog hunting experts who live in states that do not even have them. :confused:
 
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"Beware hog hunting experts who live in states that do not even have them."
Yep, sound like we got some real experts on all things hunting as long as it involves a blind on the edge of an open field.
 
"Now we're getting somewhere. Black hawg down, do you copy?'
Nope the place that's always on page 7 of hater threads like, haters can't disuade away from facts and resort to ad hominem attacks.
 
Got to have something to do once you get bored of watching the deer eating corn, did you see them in the first photo?
 
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