Shooting range built over highway

I saw a HK 91 (G3) and a Swiss K31. Interesting to see the weapons they shoot in Europe!

As far as the range goes it seems like they should have some borders (cement walls) on the left and right to keep a stray bullet flying off into nowhere... I have seen some pretty stupid things at the ranges here in Oregon. I am guessing they are a little better trained and more closely observed at that range in Stockholm.

Baffle or no baffles, I'd sure be sweating bullets (bad pun intended) driving down that road for the first couple times.

In Switzerland, there are shooting ranges in almost every village. This stems from the fact that every able man is serving in the military, has his service weapon at home with a full magazine worth of ammo, and has to do mandatory quals every year while not in service (soldiers serve 3 weeks every year till they are 45, more for officers).

In more than one place they shoot across valleys or over infrastructure. They do so even with artillery fire, over villages and mountains. Accidents are extremely rare, can't remember one but I'd be surprised if the total was zero...

Anyways, guns and shooting are part of everyday life in Switzerland. You can enroll in a Government youth program when you are 14 (fourteen), and they give you a military rifle to take home (the full auto is deactivated, but that's just a small part to take out and reinsert turned the other way).

Assault Rifle. Fourteen. Free. From the Government.

There are over 3,300 chapters of the Swiss Sport Shooting Federation, each with its range... That's 1 for every 2000 citizens or so.

For info, the targets in the video are at 300m (330yd). The black is roughly 2' in diameter, corresponding to the 5 ring. The 10 ring is 4" in diameter, 9 is 8", and so on in 2" radius increments.

Shooting open sights, plain service rifles, military issue ammo. Good shots cringe when they go below 95 points out of 100, local competitions are won on 98-99-100, if there is a tie they check the bulls (the bull is 2")... 330 yd, open sights, military issue hardware.

Because the Swiss are politically largely apathetic (virtually no Swiss could tell you who the President is - it rotates among a ruling council and most Swiss would be hard pressed to name a single member; all politics are very local) they still have faith in their government. They are also used to the concept of the citizen soldier. Thus, if the government says it’s safe and necessary; it’s safe and unquestioned.

The Swiss political philosophy is also admirable. Roughly: “Let us be saved from Godless Communism and Free-Market Capitalism”.

The Swiss modeled their modern government after our original one; the concept of a small central government with more power held by the Cantons (States), staying neutral in the affairs of others, etc. They also copied our idea of the citizen soldier so there was no need for large permanent standing army.

LRDGCO said:

Because the Swiss are politically largely apathetic (virtually no Swiss could tell you who the President is - it rotates among a ruling council and most Swiss would be hard pressed to name a single member; all politics are very local) they still have faith in their government. They are also used to the concept of the citizen soldier. Thus, if the government says it’s safe and necessary; it’s safe and unquestioned.

The Swiss political philosophy is also admirable. Roughly: “Let us be saved from Godless Communism and Free-Market Capitalism”.

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The Swiss don't care who is the President... Because he (or she) doesn't matter.

The ultimate decision belongs to the people. Any citizen or group of citizens can challenge a law passed or proposed by the Government, and ask for it to go through the ballots. Once 100,000 signatures have been collected, the matter goes in front of the people, and the Government is bound by the results. Similarly, any citizen or group of citizens can ask for a constitutional amendment - and the Government can only implement whatever the people decide.

With that in mind, you'll understand that the Government thinks twice before embarking onto something... Because if the people don't like it, then the Government can stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

Often, the results go completely against what the Government would like.

When was the last time that your Government asked you if you were OK with anything they did?

Sadly, those days disappeared about the time of our Civil War and were advanced even further by Wilson and others going forward. This led to greater reductions in freedom and power OF the people which led to things like the NFA 1934, AWB 1986, etc.

Baffle wall needs to be higher. The fact that the road can be seen from the shoot house means that the road can be shot from the shoot house.

Swiss shooters are currently launching a referendum against the Swiss federal council's adoption of the EU gun ban. They needed 50,000 signatures to trigger the referendum.

Olon said:

Baffle or no baffles, I'd sure be sweating bullets (bad pun intended) driving down that road for the first couple times.

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I would bet most folks don't even know it's there, especially coming from the one direction the shooters are shooting towards.

Double Naught Spy said:

Baffle wall needs to be higher. The fact that the road can be seen from the shoot house means that the road can be shot from the shoot house.

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From the prone position, the road is not visible.
They do not seem to have the issues we face here; perhaps it is better training, perhaps differing attitudes due to cultural differences, but their country remains very safe

George P said:

From the prone position, the road is not visible.
They do not seem to have the issues we face here; perhaps it is better training, perhaps differing attitudes due to cultural differences, but their country remains very safe

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I see the road isn't visible from the prone position, but the road IS visible from the shoot house. You are assuming people will always and only shoot from the prone position.

This isn't an issue of the country's safety, LOL.

In Switzerland, that is the type of shooting they do, kneeling/sitting, or prone. In any event, they don't seem to have the safety issues we do here.

Double Naught Spy said:

I see the road isn't visible from the prone position, but the road IS visible from the shoot house. You are assuming people will always and only shoot from the prone position.

This isn't an issue of the country's safety, LOL.

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That isn't a public range in the sense that anyone can just show up and shoot unsupervised. And there are range officers who are watching everything. The Swiss put a strong emphasis on personal responsibility. They don't have to be constantly on guard for idiots. So the assumption that people will always and only shoot from the prone position is a very solid assumption to make on that range. And even then, like I said, there are range officers making sure the rules are abided by.

Way cool...there way of life and shooting responsiblity

Cool, but it just goes against everything I was taught safety wise.
Is the range clear? Is there anything between you and the target you don't want to shoot?
May be safe but my brain still tells me its wrong.

Kano383 said:

The Swiss don't care who is the President... Because he (or she) doesn't matter.

The ultimate decision belongs to the people. Any citizen or group of citizens can challenge a law passed or proposed by the Government, and ask for it to go through the ballots. Once 100,000 signatures have been collected, the matter goes in front of the people, and the Government is bound by the results. Similarly, any citizen or group of citizens can ask for a constitutional amendment - and the Government can only implement whatever the people decide.

With that in mind, you'll understand that the Government thinks twice before embarking onto something... Because if the people don't like it, then the Government can stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

Often, the results go completely against what the Government would like.

When was the last time that your Government asked you if you were OK with anything they did?

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I lived there for six years. But thanks for sharing.

And how many shooting accidents at gun clubs did you hear about or witness, or were there even any at all?

George P said:

And how many shooting accidents at gun clubs did you hear about or witness, or were there even any at all?

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None that I was aware of.

There were a few of murders, a few suicides, and at least one mass shooting in which the obligatory militia rifle stored in most homes were used during my time there. I believe at some point, ammo issuance was tightened up to limit access and availability in the home to militia-aged males. I lived in Suisse Romande (French speaking) and I understand there are far fewer hunters and less interest in the shooting sports there than in the German speaking Cantons. I don't know that I had a single Swiss colleague who hunted or shot, other than as required for militia duty.

LRDGCO said:

None that I was aware of.

There were a few of murders, a few suicides, and at least one mass shooting in which the obligatory militia rifle stored in most homes were used during my time there. I believe at some point, ammo issuance was tightened up to limit access and availability in the home to militia-aged males. I lived in Suisse Romande (French speaking) and I understand there are far fewer hunters and less interest in the shooting sports there than in the German speaking Cantons. I don't know that I had a single Swiss colleague who hunted or shot, other than as required for militia duty.

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Don't want to get this thread off topic but I'd be curious to see how the media in gun-friendly European countries portray mass shooting and other events of "gun violence." May be a neat idea for another thread. I may try to research it a bit myself out of curiosity.

I have to admit I don’t really like that particular range set up, but I can’t nail down a real safety issue. So I suppose logic overrules emotion, I’m sure it wouldn’t bother me once I got used to it.

Blackstone said:

Believe it or not, the people who designed and approved the range carefully considered all the safety implications. From the baffle wall design, to the ammunition and rifles permitted, there is zero risk of bullet hitting the road. You also have to understand that the majority of Swiss rifle shooting is a 300m course of fire in the prone position. See: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiesswesen_ausser_Dienst#Eidgenössisches_Feldschiessen

The reason the range was built here is because there is simply a lack of appropriate land in a small country such as Switzerland. There is also a high demand for ranges, due to the number of target shooters, but primarily due to the number of national service members who have to shoot their compulsory programmes.

I risk offending by posting this on a primarily US message board, but it's quite grating to hear US commentators try to apply their shooting culture norms to other countries, as if they are the sole authority on safe use of firearms. After all, if you do a Google search for 'gun range accidents', they pretty much all occur in the USA. Search for 'Swiss gun range accidents'?

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In the US we are often required to deal with shooters that are inexperienced, careless, reckless, unintelligent, or some combination thereof. So we’re more inclined to plan for the lowest common denominator.

In some countries, particularly those who have a compulsory military service, public ranges are run in a manner very similar to how we might be used to a military range. You shoot from the proscribed positions, with the proscribed weapon, at the proscribed target, etc. Any deviation from that will result in being banned from the range, all the way to criminal charges. Additionally depending on the culture, having a strong sense of rule following, helps with these issues. American's, well that doesn't necessarily work for us.

readyeddy said:

In the US we are often required to deal with shooters that are inexperienced, careless, reckless, unintelligent, or some combination thereof. So we’re more inclined to plan for the lowest common denominator.

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And in that country they do not deal with those inexperienced, careless, reckless folks.