What would be better overall for my needs - Dillon 550 or 650?

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rfwobbly said:
Your volumes PER SESSION are the best indication of the correct machine for you.

Having owned both a 550 and 650, and I'm going to side with Jmorris on this one. Your volumes indicate an XL650 with Case Feeder. I would advise you to load 1000 rounds per session of a single caliber. Then come back the following week and load 1000 rounds of the next caliber. If you take your time, each of these loading sessions will take about 2 hours start to finish.


Things you need to know....
• The 650 has the best and most trouble-free primer feeding in the industry. You'll be so happy with the primer system that you'll quickly realize that hand primer insertion is totally unnecessary. Using the in-press primer insertion will compliment your entire loading process in ways you simply cannot envision now. Once you load on a 650 for a week it will be like a religious epiphany !! You'll be kicking yourself in the hind quarters for not making this move years ago.

• 1000 rounds per session will not tax the machine, but it may stress your back and shoulder. To counter this I highly suggest you purchase the Strong Mount and the Plastic Roller Handle. The Strong Mount greatly increases the strength of your bench mounting. The Roller Handle spreads the force over a larger area of your hand. Both work together to lower the possibility of repetitive motion issues.

• As was said, the 650 is more cumbersome with caliber conversions. That's why you want to finish with one caliber before converting. However, purchasing separate powder measures for each caliber will not save any great time. The largest time saver on the XL650 will be the purchase a second primer feed system for use with 45ACP, OR decide from the start to focus exclusively on 45ACP with small primers so that no primer size conversion is required.

• 40, 9mm, 38Spcl, 38 Super, and 357M all use one sorting disk inside the case feeder. You'll need a second disk with larger openings exclusively for 45ACP. No way around that $39 purchase.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yes, Also has a history of putting the primmer feed tube through the ceiling. This was a problem when they first came out. They still have do not have a fix for it. The problem lies with all the plastic parts Dillon uses. A little wear on the plastic part it binds a little, the uses uses a little more force then thefire works begins. Chain reaction setting off the primers. Dillon also recommend not to use Federal primers for this reason.
 
The 650 has the best and most trouble-free primer feeding in the industry.
This is interesting. Watching some videos that forward push on the handle to seat the primers looks like it would be awkward or at a minimum take a little while to get used to.
Click to expand...

The only presses that prime on the down stroke to a set depth are the Loadmaster and 1050. I really like the 1050 but it has the same plastic tip that the SD, 550 has, they are all slides that run back and forth, the 650 is a rotating disk.
 
CMV said:
I've also noticed watching videos of progressive presses in general, the people stand to operate them. Might be just easier to shoot a video that way. I sit now with the LCT. No reason I couldn't stand (other than laziness), but just wondered if that was necessary....or maybe I'm an oddball and everyone stands on any type of press other than me...
Click to expand...

You don't have to stand, that is your choice. The press will work either way. I have my 550 on a strong mount and I stand while reloading. I think this gives me a better view into the machine so that I can keep and eye on things. I also think I can operate the press faster while standing, but that really isn't a factor these days.
 
S1050 primer feed was a bear to adjust new but has been fairly good since.
550 was a constant annoyance but I have it up to fair performance now.
Neither is as good as my old CH or MEC although they are otherwise superior.

A friend is all Hornady. He has all available upgrades and Internet Tweaks and says it does very well. But he says if starting over, it would be Dillon.

If you want some entertainment, go to Benos and read the posts on the Mk 7 Evolution and Revolution superloaders.
 
jmorris said:
The only presses that prime on the down stroke to a set depth are the Loadmaster and 1050. I really like the 1050 but it has the same plastic tip that the SD, 550 has, they are all slides that run back and forth, the 650 is a rotating disk.
Click to expand...

The Star progressives primed on the down stroke.
 
Yes but the Star has been out of production for some time.
I wish I had paid the extra money for a Star in 1978 instead of the CH which is rusting under my bench, replaced by Dillon.
 
Jim Watson said:
Yes but the Star has been out of production for some time.
I wish I had paid the extra money for a Star in 1978 instead of the CH which is rusting under my bench, replaced by Dillon.
Click to expand...

They're still out there. I know my shooting buddy has one with all the extras. That being said they are GREAT machines for loading ONE load, due the the bushing type powder measure.
 
Blue68f100 said:
Yes, Also has a history of putting the primmer feed tube through the ceiling. This was a problem when they first came out. They still have do not have a fix for it. The problem lies with all the plastic parts Dillon uses. A little wear on the plastic part it binds a little, the uses uses a little more force then thefire works begins. Chain reaction setting off the primers. Dillon also recommend not to use Federal primers for this reason.
Click to expand...
O.K. everyone sit down and remove everything from your mouth. I am about to defend the Dillon Press. It is true that the Dillon is known for prime feed detonation but I would say that most are caused by the loose nut pulling the handle. If you feel something is not right STOP. If you get a small amount of powder on the primer wheel and you power through it only bad things will happen. This is good advice on any press you operate.
And though it is not commonly known Hornady has also had one confirmed primer tub detonation. It too was caused by a loose nut.
 
That’s spot on, treat reloading like you are dealing with a woman, forcing things will only wind up bad for you.

All the tube fed machines have steel blast shields over their aluminum feed tubes to contain them for the people that can mess up an anvil with a rubber mallet.
 
CMV said:
I didn't discount LnL due to dislike, just know nothing about it. All I really know (think I know....) about progressives is avoid the Lee, everyone seems to be very pleased with Dillon. I have a hodgepodge of stuff now, mostly Lee. But I couldn't care less what brand it is, as long as it works.

The 1500 rds every 5 weeks - that's an approximation, but basically if I did a session of 1500 of a single caliber every 5th week, I'd stay whole on everything.

I've also noticed watching videos of progressive presses in general, the people stand to operate them. Might be just easier to shoot a video that way. I sit now with the LCT. No reason I couldn't stand (other than laziness), but just wondered if that was necessary....or maybe I'm an oddball and everyone stands on any type of press other than me...
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying here I hear it all the time. I am going to defend Lee a bit and state that I load on a Lee Pro1000 progressive press for 3 calibers at the moment and couldn't be happier. I hear the Buy Once, Cry Once analogy all the time and have to say I haven't cried a single tear! I believe this Pro1000 could easily keep up with your needs and turn out 1500 a week, BUT I will also be honest and state that I do not believe it would hold up at that rate for much longer than a few years. The Pro 1000 is a very simple tool with very few adjustable parts. If mounted to a sturdy bench so it won't move and set up properly and kept clean from spills it works very well. I've seen way too many videos of peoples presses mounted on their bench and every time they pull or push the handle the whole press and benchtop flexes. Can't have that with the Pro1000.

Now I do not have any experience with the Lee Loadmaster, Hornady LnL or the Dillon. BUT again if I were in your position I would be looking into one of the Hornady or Dillon presses with at least 5 stations. It just makes the most sense. I use the Lee Pro1000 because it has the least number of moving parts.

Lastly I have acute Peripheral Artery Disease in both legs and standing, walking, climbing becomes very painful rather quickly. So my bench was built for me, to my height so I can comfortably sit in an old computer chair and easily work my press, see into cases and reach everything I need from my chair. So if you are comfortable sitting and working then by all means SIT!
 
I gotta confess to a small amount of 'amusement' reading posts of Hornady and Dillon owners/users squabbling with each other.

Kinda like a BMW owner taunting a Mercedes owner at a traffic light while us Chevy owners look on. lol

As a motorcycle rider I firmly believe in the old adage - Take pride in what you ride. Doesn't matter the brand name - in cycles OR reloading gear....it's all good.
 
I agree with Blue68f100. If you take the time to learn all there is to know about a press and what makes it “tick” you can make all of them work like a clock.

Even the lowly Loadmaster.



If you want to use a press vs learn how to deal with them, there are better options though.
 
RandyP: You will notice I am one of the few that defend the Hornady. But also notice I don't bad mouth Dillon. At the same time notice the defenders of Dillon don't bad mouth Hornady. Now, if the Dillon boys did not defend their press I would no respect for them, and I feel they feel the same.
 
Good read. I've owned a 650 for a few years. Best part of this thread for me was that simple line about buying another primer station ready built for caliber swaps when changing primer sizes. Not in the budget currently but will be putting it on my want list.

My reloading sessions are very similar to the OP. I start with wet tumbled head stamp sorted brass dried in a dehydrator. I wash with old primers still in case. Run it through the machine and my 9mm with rmr hp or truncated shoot incredible. I tested three different loads decapping then cleaning and found no difference in poi so this has sped up my process.

9mm luger
45acp sp or lo
380acp
44 mag
Is my current calibers
 
So to fill primers on 650 - or a lot of others - you flip them, pick up 100 in a tube, fill press with those 100. Is that all it holds? You're stopping every 100 rds to gather up more primers? Or the tube holds 100 or the pack has 100 - but you could put a bunch more in the press at once if you wanted?

Looking at the configuration on Dillon site seems like it would be around $1400ish total to setup for 9mm & .223 & that's without bullet feeding. Sound about right or I'm probably still missing a lot of stuff? From there would be a toolhead and whatever widgets necessary to feed the cases and handle the larger primers for 45ACP to add it into the mix.

Assuming I can use a lot of my existing stuff like dies. Can I use existing Lee Pro auto disk powder drop on 2nd toolhead? - with or without riser, with or without double disk kit as needed.
 
The Dillon and Hornady use the tube fed primer holders. Yes you fill the tube and use it to refill the press's tube that feeds the primers.

The price is what drove me to the Hornady LNL-AP. If you have over 20 calibers to load for the Dillon gets expensive. Your current dies should work but most dies designed for AP have a little more rounding on the bottom. This is to help align/feed brass to enter the die without hanging, making it run smoother. Some of the very old Lee dies are very short (9mm, 380), the newer ones are slightly longer. On a LNL-AP there is not enough room to use the Lee locking ring on the top, you have to move it to the bottom or Use a much better Hornady Split locking ring. Dillon has a split version too that is actually smaller than Hornady's.
 
CMV said:
Assuming I can use a lot of my existing stuff like dies. Can I use existing Lee Pro auto disk powder drop on 2nd toolhead? - with or without riser, with or without double disk kit as needed.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the Auto Disk but I know people that use the Auto Drum on Dillon.

Dave
 
CMV said:
So to fill primers on 650 - or a lot of others - you flip them, pick up 100 in a tube, fill press with those 100. Is that all it holds? You're stopping every 100 rds to gather up more primers? Or the tube holds 100 or the pack has 100 - but you could put a bunch more in the press at once if you wanted?

Looking at the configuration on Dillon site seems like it would be around $1400ish total to setup for 9mm & .223 & that's without bullet feeding. Sound about right or I'm probably still missing a lot of stuff? From there would be a toolhead and whatever widgets necessary to feed the cases and handle the larger primers for 45ACP to add it into the mix.

Assuming I can use a lot of my existing stuff like dies. Can I use existing Lee Pro auto disk powder drop on 2nd toolhead? - with or without riser, with or without double disk kit as needed.
Click to expand...

Stabbing primers gets real old real fast. Sooner or later you will end up with this spiffy gadget. Yes, the tubes only hold 100. You will end up with more tubes eventually.

41AjD4MN7tL.jpg


Yes, you can use all of your Lee stuff just fine. Obviously, I use the Hornady press, but the Dillon is no different. My Auto disk is set up for 40S&W and my Auto drum is set up for 380ACP. They both have hte Hornady quick change dies on them and work great. Actually, I like the Auto disk because there is no fiddling with adjustments.
 
CMV said:
So to fill primers on 650 - or a lot of others - you flip them, pick up 100 in a tube, fill press with those 100. Is that all it holds? You're stopping every 100 rds to gather up more primers? Or the tube holds 100 or the pack has 100 - but you could put a bunch more in the press at once if you wanted?

Looking at the configuration on Dillon site seems like it would be around $1400ish total to setup for 9mm & .223 & that's without bullet feeding. Sound about right or I'm probably still missing a lot of stuff? From there would be a toolhead and whatever widgets necessary to feed the cases and handle the larger primers for 45ACP to add it into the mix.

Assuming I can use a lot of my existing stuff like dies. Can I use existing Lee Pro auto disk powder drop on 2nd toolhead? - with or without riser, with or without double disk kit as needed.
Click to expand...

The primer tube will hold a few more than 100. There is an extension for the 650 that will hold 200. However, just buy extra pickup tubes. Takes just a second to drop them in the feed tube. If you have four pickup tubes you can load 500 rounds before you have to pick up more primers.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/9mm-223-5-56mm-xl650-new-reloader-package_8_134_26665.html Complete setup for 9mm and .223 $1704.50 I would strongly push you in that direction. It's a complete package. However I prefer the Inline Fab roller handle over the Dillon.
 
CMV said:
Assuming I can use a lot of my existing stuff like dies. Can I use existing Lee Pro auto disk powder drop on 2nd toolhead? - with or without riser, with or without double disk kit as needed.
Click to expand...

Lee dies are kinda short, and the Dillon 650 toolhead is pretty tall. I use my Lee dies in my 650, but several of them don't have enough threaded length to leave room at the top for the Lee lock ring (or the Hornady lock rings). Dillon lock rings are very thin (though without a washer or any locking mechanism), and they will let the Lee dies work. They're cheap. The Auto-Drum works great on the 650.

Note: Dillon has an extremely favorable warranty/repair policy on the 650's (not the 1050's, oddly - they assume those are seeing industrial use). They will liberally replace broken parts, even if you are not the original owner. This makes buying a used 650 a very good deal. I bought one 3rd hand (at least... it's possible that the earliest link in the chain that I knew about wasn't the original owner, either). A few parts had been bent along the way. I called Dillon, told them I was a 3rd-hand owner, and that I'd like to buy replacement parts. My money was no good to them... they just mailed me new parts, free of charge.

If you live in an area where there are a lot of loaders, look around for a used 650. Dillon's warranty and customer service approach makes this a pretty low-risk proposition, and can save you a decent amount of money.

But if you're ready to go right now and none are on the market, then getting something brand new is also fun.
 
While red and blue are arguing (gee sounds like a political mess), I just have to wonder why the OP wants a progressive when he does 75% of a progressive's actions OFF the press.......Seems like he has a good system (even if it is slow and labor intensive) that works well for him.
 
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