9mm Luger load?

Status
Not open for further replies.

joneb

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
5,718
Location
Oregon
I have some Hornady 124gr XTP I would like to load for a Sig P938, I plan to try BE-86. I do have True Blue, Accurate #5 and #7 and VV N340.
My Hornady manual shows a COL of 1.060". I'm thinking of loading five rounds at this COL with 5.0gr of BE-86 with GM-100 primers. Does this seem like a safe starting load?
Thanks
 
Make sure they plunk before loading several up. I found that some profiles don't feed well in the P938 even if they plunk. But, your proposed COAL looks pretty safe.
 
I have had a couple different lots of BE86. One was quite a bit hotter than the others.
Different bullet but
Mixed range brass, S+B SP, charge as thrown after setting measure 5" 9mm 1911
String: 5
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 9:29:34 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1092
Low Vel: 1071
Ave Vel: 1085
Ext Spread: 21
Std Dev: 8
RMR 124 FN-FMJ 5.0 BE86 1.08 5inch 1911
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1084 134.416 323.506
1071 132.804 315.793
1092 135.408 328.298
1088 134.912 325.898
1092 135.408 328.298

Different bullet and different lot of BE86 Close to same vel .3gr less than the load above with a longer OAl
RMR 124 FN 4.7 BE86 OAL 1.10
1088.00
1077.00
1091.00
1085.00
1079.00
Average 1084.00
ES 14.00
SD 5.92
PF 134.42

String: 6
Date: 7/23/2016
Time: 9:34:47 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1116
Low Vel: 1057
Ave Vel: 1092
Ext Spread: 59
Std Dev: 23
RMR 124 FN 4.7 BE86 1.09 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1090 135.16 327.097
1116 138.384 342.888
1089 135.036 326.497
1110 137.64 339.21
1057 131.068 307.591 (?? on this one others were close to 1100, charge maybe a bit light?)

So I would say 5gr is probably ok but if it was me I would start about 4.5-4.7 just to be on the safe side.
 
Yes, somewhere between 5.0 and 5.5 Grs will likely find a happy spot with BE-86. 5.7 Grs shot well, but I felt like it was max. I went to 5.9, but that definitely seemed to stout. Also depends on the seating depth. I was using the RMR 124 Gr MPR JHP @ 1.105/1.110. I ended up using 1.070/1.075 for that bullet (Even more so at 1.060), which would definitely be too hot with over 5.5 Grs of BE-86. I settled on 5.5 Grs of Silhouette, but BE-86 works very well too.

I logged the 124 Gr MPR JHP as .559 (+/-.002) long, so you can measure the XTP, do the math, and see how deep in the case they would be in comparison.
 
Search for BE-86 in this Section, there is a whole thread on everyone's loads for BE-86. A lot of good information to get you started.

leftyTSGC
 
Another AA-7/124 xtp fan. 7.8 gns, Fed 200 primer, col 1.113 = 1180 fps from BHP

All the usual precautions apply
 
I logged the 124 Gr MPR JHP as .559 (+/-.002) long, so you can measure the XTP, do the math
I did check that, at a COL of 1.060" the 124gr XTP would seat .266" into the case. For a 135gr Xtreme CP HP with a COL of 1.105" seats .230" into the case, I've used 4.9gr of BE-86 for a AV of 980 fps from a 3" barrel.
I did a plunk check on the XTP it plunked at 1.120" so it looks like I have some wiggle room.
 
Hey guys thanks for the input, it was a big help.
The weather has kept me from testing for awhile, so here's what I tried.
As a base line I bought a box of Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ the average velocity for these rounds though a Sig 938 W/A 3" barrel was 1,009 fps with a ES of 32 fps
For the BE-86 load with a 124gr XTP here's what I tried,
Brass= Blazer
primer= GM-100
Powder= BE-86
charge= 4.8gr
Bullet= 124gr XTP
COL= 1.090"
H= 992
L= 976
AV= 986
ES= 16
SD= 7
I'd say I'm pretty dang close pretty close to where I should be, I may tweak this a bit but Dudedog's recommendations was a very good one.
 
Last edited:
My favorite load for any 124’s and BE-86 is 5.0-5.2 grains seated to 1.12. Shoots very well in all my 9’s.
Thanks I will work up in that direction and see how it goes.
I will also work in the other direction and see how that goes.
I'm pretty confident by the time I find a good for the 938 with the 124gr XTP I will need to buy more bullets:cuss:
 
True Blue is my powder of choice for 9x19 these days. Just follow Accurate Arms (aka Western Powder) data.
 
My favorite load for any 124’s and BE-86 is 5.0-5.2 grains seated to 1.12. Shoots very well in all my 9’s.

I would concur. The little bit I've worked with BE-86 and the 124grn 9mm load, I got good performance from 5.4grn BE-86... but there is a point of diminishing returns, at least for me in my shorter-barreled Kahrs (3.6" and 3", respectively.) The 5.4grn load was excellent, the 5.8grn load only produced 10fps more velocity out of either pistol, and dumped unburnt powder on my hand. It makes sense being BE is a fairly slow powder.
 
True Blue is my powder of choice for 9x19 these days. Just follow Accurate Arms (aka Western Powder) data.
I have done some testing with True Blue for 9x19 using Xtreme CP 135gr FP and HP I was amazed by the numbers from the cronogragh with standard deviation of 4-6, I need to try True Blue with the 124gr XTP.
I also have WSF and Accurate 5 and 7 to try with the 124gr XTP.
 
I'm gonna throw this out there.....Just use factory ammo for carry, whatever general range ammo you use for other shooting. This is my reasoning specific to Sig P938.....

1. It isn't a target gun. Taking your 4" group @ 15 yds with any old ammo down to 3.5" with a good load....why bother?
2. It isn't an enjoyable range gun. It ranks down there with a Ruger LCP .380 in the "fun to shoot" category. You're out there just doing long range sessions with a P938? You find it pleasurable/enjoyable to shoot? (you very well might, I don't so am looking thru my personal preference filter)
3. It isn't much for any kind of precision work. The "sniper's paradise" type steel targets I generally love...I don't even bother with P938. Just a solid steel silhouette. If I want to really work at it, yeah I can go real slow and get the small paddles, but nothing like doing same with a P320 at full speed. I can do it, but it is definitely counter to "train as you fight". And since I view that particular gun as 0 recreational value, it's sole purpose is to fight.

I need to get that gun out of a deep concealment holster, get it on target, grip it well enough for a double tap, and I need to do that quickly. There's so much working against me, being any more precise than "close enough" isn't realistic. Just so much different than say a a VP9 from a Safariland ALS. Not knocking it. This is my second one. Great little carry gun. They eat up Winchester Ranger T (RA9T are the ones I use and carry ammo for all my 9mm), so that's great. They also eat up my generic 115gr FMJ or plated range ammo. I'll do my drills with it just because I carry it a lot and it is much more difficult for me to draw vs larger guns. It's size, type holster, how I wear it are different for that specific gun. Putting myself on a timer and doing multiple target drills, quick to see I have a lot of other things that need worrying about before working up a load which will ultimately result in "good enough" remaining good enough :) Overall, the small size, concealability, comfort, and reliability are worth the tradeoff, but there is a tradeoff and has its limitations.

Just because they plunk doesn't mean they'll reliably feed in a P938. It's somewhat fussy. Not Kimber Solo fussy, but it's not a P226 either. XTP should be a great choice though and give a decent range of seating depth that still work well.

I don't know any of your powders. I use Win231. Over the chrony I don't think I'm getting full burn from the 3" barrel. The velocity drop was a lot more than I expected even compared to a 4" barrel. So that's something to consider if you are working up something specifically for the P938 or other micro 9. But really, why are you loading the XTP in the first place? Is it to make a defensive load? If so, I'd work up several powders and see what the chrony says. I'd be more concerned about what is giving me the velocity from the 3" vs what is giving me the tightest group (within reason). If just for general range ammo, trade those XTP 2or3 : 1 for some Berry's or Extreme :) The accuracy potential of the XTP or even a HAP is kinda wasted in that application.
 
I will also chime in with my favorite loads. I load plated 115gn bullets, mostly Xtreme or RMR. They shoot well and feed well my my P938. I know there have been statements made that the gun prefers 124, but I have not seen that to be the case.

For the 115 plated RN bullets I use, I seat them to 1.150". They are well off the lands at that length, and feed reliably.

Xtreme 115 RN bullets. Winchester small primers. Shot from 4.5" barrel (sorry, but I almost never chrono my P938.)
BE-86, 5.2gn, 1043fps
AA#7, 7.2gn, 1023fps
N-320, 4.2gn, 1065fps
Power Pistol, 5.3gn, 1029fps
Silhouette, 5.4gn, 1043fps
Titegroup, 3.9gn, 1033fps
Universal, 4.6gn, 1064fps (This load I did chrono from the 938, where it was 975fps)

All of these are low to mid-range loads, which I prefer for general target practice, especially in the P938. I sometimes shoot as many as 50 rounds with it during a given trip to the range.
 
Xtreme 115gr PRN, Win231/HP-38 4.1gr, CCI #500 seated to 1.090". This load works perfectly in all my 9mm pistols. SR9, M&P9, P229, VP9, UPS9SD, Staccato.

I also use the Berry's 115gr PRN, same charge, seated to 1.130".
 
Is it for a Luger? Those old toggle tops like a little extra oommff - something around an upper mid.
 
I like WSF in 9mm, good stuff.
Not as much velocity on top as some of the other powders (BE86 for example)

This is my practice/match load
S+B SP 6" 9mm 1911 Mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting measure
String: 2
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 3:26:11 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1064
Low Vel: 1028
Ave Vel: 1048
Ext Spread: 36
Std Dev: 13
RMR 124 1.08 WSF 4.4
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1064 131.936 311.678
1043 129.332 299.497
1049 130.076 302.952
1056 130.944 307.009
1028 127.472 290.944

This is a test I did at a shorter 1.065 w/5gr
S+B SP 6" 9mm 1911 Mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting measure
String: 8
Date: 9/17/2017
Time: 11:33:50 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1157
Low Vel: 1121
Ave Vel: 1139
Ext Spread: 36
Std Dev: 15
RMR MPR JHP 5.0 WSF 1.065
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1153 142.972 366.001
1132 140.368 352.79
1157 143.468 368.545
1135 140.74 354.662
1121 139.004 345.967

WSF shoots well for me at midrange 1030-1050 fps charges
 
1. It isn't a target gun. Taking your 4" group @ 15 yds with any old ammo down to 3.5" with a good load....why bother?
2. It isn't an enjoyable range gun. It ranks down there with a Ruger LCP .380 in the "fun to shoot" category. You're out there just doing long range sessions with a P938? You find it pleasurable/enjoyable to shoot? (you very well might, I don't so am looking thru my personal preference filter)
3. It isn't much for any kind of precision work. The "sniper's paradise" type steel targets I generally love...I don't even bother with P938. Just a solid steel silhouette. If I want to really work at it, yeah I can go real slow and get the small paddles, but nothing like doing same with a P320 at full speed. I can do it, but it is definitely counter to "train as you fight". And since I view that particular gun as 0 recreational value, it's sole purpose is to fight.
I hear ya, but I like to tinker. It can be frustrating when there is no data to work from.
I don't think working up a load for a short barrel is a waist of time, it's not just about what accuracy one can squeeze out but rather getting the gun to shoot to the POA and getting the gun to point shoot well. JMHO
 
Tinkering is fun too. Interested in your results if you tinker a lot - like which powder seems most effective in the 3" or if any particular load stands out for recoil snap. My Win231 load I'm pretty sure isn't efficient. Works, but something else for that specific gun wouldn't be bad.

Mine seem to shoot POA reasonably well with anything but for some reason I do notice novice shooters who will do fine with an M9 or P10C will try it and really pronounce their low-left tendency when they weren't doing that with something larger. Something about it makes a lot of people do that. I'm guessing the way the recoil feels a little different along with the lack of real estate for support hand. They will slow way down with it too.

I guess what you're doing is no different than working up a load for any caliber you only have 1-2 of.....I didn't really think about it like that since I have a bunch of 9's and go thru bazillions of 9mm rds. They have to eat what is being served for dinner or they go hungry :) But I'm doing the exact same thing for something like .357MAG, just not really thinking about the fact I am making a load for that specific gun.

I do wonder about the XTP choice.....just because ¢/round gnaws at me - that's in my notebook and just as important as velocity # to me. I know a lot of other guys don't care about that much - if the bullet I like costs 5x as much, it costs 5x as much....But caught my attention since only reason I'd use an XTP was for a defensive load or something I wanted bullseye accuracy (but would still use a HAP there since I'm cheap :) )
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top