165gr 9mm loads for PC Carbine

As close as I have tested in 9mm is 158 grains, so maybe this can give you some idea of speed related to charge weight.

4 grains of Unique, and 4.5 grains of HS-6 got velocities of just over 900 fps avg from a Beretta M9. What they look like below. Good luck.

Just curious, do you plan to compete with this, or hunt, or..."
If competition all pcc is minor power factor, so no need for heavier bullet.

Every 9mm handgun I have slugged (Beretta/BHP/Walther), all had groove diameters of over .357", and many others report the same. Can't recall slugging my UZI carbine, so now I'm curious about it. S&W, Colt, and other US makers seem to stick much more closely to the defacto .355" groove diameter, which I find interesting. I have read many Colt Python revolvers will have .355" groove diameters, which is really interesting. I size all bullets I cast at least .358", and even use jacketed bullets of .357" for best accuracy.

Attached is a photo of some rounds I made up using Lee 125 grain RN bullets sized .358", and even so have no weird bulging, and were extremely accurate from my Walther P1 using 4.7 grains of Unique.

Because of the pretty sharp internal taper of the 9mm case, along with a very deep seating depth of the 158 grain bullets, some swaging of the bullet especially the soft Speer LSWC-HP may happen. I did not notice any key-holing or such, and these loads function just fine in my M9. I always call these loads used in my M9, my 16 shot "FBI Load" Beretta, and in reality is pretty much true. They hit very hard, and expand beautifully. Good luck with your carbine loading.

Here's a link for the 165gr Xtreme load work-up from 2015. It performed well in my G19 & carbine. The starting load was from a discussion we had on THR with Paul (Alliant Powders).

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/165g-9mm-for-pistol-carbine.762774/page-2#post-9883593

Hope this helps! AoG

Galil5.56 said:

Every 9mm handgun I have slugged (Beretta/BHP/Walther), all had groove diameters of over .357", and many others report the same. Can't recall slugging my UZI carbine, so now I'm curious about it. S&W, Colt, and other US makers seem to stick much more closely to the defacto .355" groove diameter, which I find interesting. I have read many Colt Python revolvers will have .355" groove diameters, which is really interesting. I size all bullets I cast at least .358", and even use jacketed bullets of .357" for best accuracy.

Attached is a photo of some rounds I made up using Lee 125 grain RN bullets sized .358", and even so have no weird bulging, and were extremely accurate from my Walther P1 using 4.7 grains of Unique.

Because of the pretty sharp internal taper of the 9mm case, along with a very deep seating depth of the 158 grain bullets, some swaging of the bullet especially the soft Speer LSWC-HP may happen. I did not notice any key-holing or such, and these loads function just fine in my M9. I always call these loads used in my M9, my 16 shot "FBI Load" Beretta, and in reality is pretty much true. They hit very hard, and expand beautifully. Good luck with your carbine loading.

View attachment 823723

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I slugged my Canik TP9SFx yesterday. .3555, I haven't slugged my PCC yet.

Alliant has data for Sport Pistol with the 165.

Walkalong said:

I have tested some .38 Spl 125 gr bullets in 9MM with good success. I was just trying it to see if one could use .38 bullets in a pinch, who knew some guns preferred them. Heck, for a long time I "assumed" 9mm barrels all had .355 grooves. Silly me.

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Ironic, but at one time Hornady published 9mm data using .357" bullets. I used Hornady .357" 125 grain XTP bullets, and like the results just fine. Seems a pretty tough bullet considering fairly high (about 1200 fps) impact velocities (shown farthest to the Pelosi), and feed just fine for me.

Oh, man, digging those shoulders out of the throat of the rifling when you want to unload without firing the gun...

Been toying with the idea of loading .357" 135 grain Gold Dot short barrel bullets in my 9mm. It's got a long throat and long magazines (1911).
I also have a boat load of those same Hornady and Speer 158 LSWC's and 140 LFP's.
Hmmm, plated .357" 125 FP's.....
I think it's time to slug the bore and turn my 9mm 1911 into a semi-automatic 38 special.

I don't know about the heavier bullets, but just shooting regular 9mm Handloads and Factory loads, the blowback action of the carbine gets filthy dirty very quickly. I am interested to see how dirty it really gets using sub sonic and a suppressor!

Walkalong said:

That 158 Gr SWC/HP 9MM round looks so cool I might just have to make some.

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Have at it, and I'll look forward to your well documented results.

PO2Hammer said:

Been toying with the idea of loading .357" 135 grain Gold Dot short barrel bullets in my 9mm. It's got a long throat and long magazines (1911).
I also have a boat load of those same Hornady and Speer 158 LSWC's and 140 LFP's.
Hmmm, plated .357" 125 FP's.....
I think it's time to slug the bore and turn my 9mm 1911 into a semi-automatic 38 special.

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Semi-auto .38 Special is where its at! I was in the same situation with a long throat for my 9mm handgun (Beretta M9) using these rounds. As with any ammo I make it gets chamber checked, with the slide going into battery easily too. You say you have a boat load of 140 LFP bullets... I have loaded these/similar (TCFP) too, with very accurate results. Here is what I used:

5 grains Power Pistol 140 grain Mastercast TC sized .3575” CCI 500 OAL 1.090”
1066, 1072, 1067, 1048, 1061 AV 1062 ES 24 SD 9

They look like this:



http://www.mastercastbullets.com/bulletphotos.html

ATLDave said:

Oh, man, digging those shoulders out of the throat of the rifling when you want to unload without firing the gun...

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That is a lot of bullet for that tiny case! Looks interesting though, I may just give it a try someday.

Stay safe!

For plated 147gn RN @ 1.160”, 3.1 of N310, 3.2 of N320 or Titegroup, will make minor comfortably but still be subsonic and very “soft”. That said, they are not low pressure rounds at all.

Riomouse911 said:

That is a lot of bullet for that tiny case! Looks interesting though, I may just give it a try someday.

Stay safe!

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Agreed, as shown well in this photo taken from a link ssyoumans shared, from the link Artofgolf posted above... Lots of full diameter shank length action going on here:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-heavy-bullets-in-9mm-luger/

Gtscotty said:

....Agreed, now I'm interested in trying 158gr bullets in addition to the 165gr now. Would folks expect RN bullets like these:

http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=226&category=5&secondary=9

to feed better and impinge less on average 9mm throats?

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Gtscotty, if you're also considering 158gr ~ Powder Valley sells PrviPartizen semi- jacketed hollow-points: https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/prvi-355-38-cal-158-gr-sjhp-100/
$15.88 per 100 bag.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=203144&d=1411582775
I've had excellent results with this particular bullet. AoG

Walkalong said:

I would say likely, but then it will really depend on the pistols chamber/throat/etc. A RN or TrFP where the full diameter part won't be very far out of the case would be the best bet. I suspect newer pistols would be more problematic than older ones with all the trend towards "match" chambers.

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Beat me to it, and I have very similar thoughts. This type of 'exotic' reloading only magnifies the "each gun is a law unto itself" philosophy, where trial and error will dictate success or failure. Not implying failure meaning unsafe, simply what may work well vs not so well. This Magma Engineering .38-158 RN BB bullet has a lot of weight out front by virtue of its 'blunt' RN (kinda like a 9mm Makarov style bullet)... This is good, and the full diameter shank length looks as if a reasonable OAL can be reached that will function in guns with longish leades. Hard to empirically say it will work; more like experience has me thinking it looks like it will work.

FWIW, Lyman used to publish 9mm cast bullet data for their 358311, 158 grain bullet and if this can work, a lot of others it would seem could as well. This photo was posted by "Ben", from the website "the art and science of bullet casting":



Also you may find this interesting to see how another very heavy bullet looks seated in a 9mm case. These are 38S-160 RN BB made by Magma Engineering as well, and weigh 160 grains. Load data for these is seen in the link in this thread about loading heavy bullets, and would be the Bayou 160 grain. Here is a photo from the SNS casting website showing these bullets loaded... Look really good to me:



Just to show how weird stuff, can actually work for a particular gun, shown is some ammo I made using a 100 gr Lee Makarov bullet, shown next to a more conventional profile 2R ogive Lee 125 grain RN. Both function perfectly in my Beretta, but might fail completely in another with so much full length shank sticking out, and short OAL:

Good luck.

Looking at that stubby 9mm on the right reminds me that I keep forgetting to get some Eggleston 95 gr “.380” bullets sized .358 and try them for lightweight falling plate loads in my 686+.

I swear there are too many options, but not enough time to load them all!

Stay safe!