38 Special practice loads

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300Whspr

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Hey guys,

I'm getting ready to load a bunch of 38 Special practice rounds. Since the 'special has been around a while, and there's lots of experience with it, I don't see any real reason for me to go out and find a good load "from scratch" when I'm sure there are many of you guys out there that have already done it. Plus, it's snowing here, and I just don't feel like going outside today.

So, what's a good practice load for the 38 Special?

I've got about 700 lead round nose 120gr bullets to use up...

***EDIT*** Memory Fail... Bullets are actually 125gr RNFP, "hard cast" (no BHN listed), "Suter's Choice"

Powders available... let me think:

Bullseye
Red Dot
Green Dot
Herco
A little bit (about 4 ounces??) of Alcan #5
Titegroup
Universal
...

Heck, I've probably got more suitable powders than what I don't have.

I've loaded a few hundred of the 120's in the past with Red Dot and Bullseye in the past, and liked both powders and the results with them...but those were just "Powderpuff" loads to get the wifey used to her J-Frame.

Now it's time to throttle up a bit.

Suggestions?
 
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I would say all but #5. Bullseye is considered the go-to for light target. If you can't find load data for the 120s, go to the next heavier lead bullet in your manual. You shouldn't load but a few for testing.
 
Sierra has a new smartphone app for reloading rifle & pistol that has a slider for fps.
Pick 1) data 2)rifle/pistol 3) cartridge 4) projectile 5) then move the fps slider.
As you move the slider powder values change, drop in/out.
Pretty neat, just did a quick look at 38 spl 125 gn JHP @ 1100 fps from 6.0 gn Universal.
15 other powders also gave 1100 fps, one of those was 7.7 gn A#5.
My phone is an android, not sure what else it works on, and it'll cost a whopping $5 / year !
 
Do you know the BHN of these 120 RN?
What barrel length will these be used in?
Most lead loads I have loaded are 140-158gr
Bullet weight and velocity will effect point of impact. The sights on my S&W 36 w/a 1 7/8" barrel does well with 148-158gr bullets.
 
Haven't loaded lighter than 158s yet, will be by summer, using the same powder both ways, just a Lil more of it then, a close to max load of bullseye gets the 158s cruising nicely, and beautiful accuracy as well.
 
2.7 to 3.4 gr of Bullseye under a 148 WC is pretty much the gold standard for light target loads in the .38 (Guns vary, mine pretty much across the board love 3.0 BE).

With a 120 gr RNL, 3.8 gr of Bullseye will give a somewhat higher velocity with a recoil level that’s good for “ graduation” to a stouter load.

The max I would go is 4.2 gr BE, which should hit roughly 900 FPS in a 4”. (For comparison, a load of 3.8 gr BE under a 158 gr SWC makes power factor above 125 for shooting games that require a 120+ load and is popular in revolver games)

Stay safe!
 
Do you know the BHN of these 120 RN?
What barrel length will these be used in?

I'm not sure about the BHN, but I would assume they're around 18, since they're commercial cast. They're "Suter's Choice", 125gr RNFP. Yep, memory fail... I was thinking they were 120gr RN cast.

Specifically, they're going to be loaded for a S&W 638, 2.5" bbl. IIRC. But the majority of them will probably get shot out of a Ruger 5" GP100. I would like to load them *near* the velocity level of the 38 Special Critical Defense that she carries in the 638.

The 638 is her CCW, but she doesn't really enjoy shooting it more than a few times, and she won't go Automatic... so she has kinda pigeonholed herself into the 638 for CCW... But, she'll shoot the Ruger all day long until the ammo is gone.

What I'm thinking is that the Power Factor for the Hornady Critical Defense (110gr bullet @ 1010, according to the box... 111PF). So, if I load these to just a little less, it should be somewhat comparable for practice. I'm thinking load the 125's to about 825fps, which would give a Power Factor of 103, and a little less recoil than the carry loads, but still enough for getting used to it.
 
From the powders you list I would go with Bullseye or Red Dot. I use W231 personally.

I usually load a 158gr cast bullet or a 148gr WC bullet.

With your bullets a very light target load would be 2.8gr Bullseye. Higher end accurate load is 4.0gr Bullseye.
Same bullet but with Red Dot, a charge of 4.0gr will also work well.

I have found a charge of 4.6gr of either to be the top charge weights with a 120/125gr LRN bullet. Those numbers are published, not my guess. I still suggest you look it up, start low and work up.
 
I stick to 158gr SWC in my 38's so I dont have any input on the 125's. I'm a fan of Bullseye though. It can be dirty, but it's also produced some of my best groups.

This group was shot at my 20 yard mark off the bench, using sandbags. Dan Wesson 15-2, 158gr Acme SWC, 3.0gr Bullseye, Winchester brass, cci primers, oal 1.450", loose crimp. 6 shots. Very light recoil out of the DW.
20190216_010236.jpg I didn't have a coin. My kids goldfish works.

Good luck!
 
Power Factor of 103, and a little less recoil than the carry loads, but still enough for getting used to it.
That's funny I do the same sort of thing for my sweetie:)
For my light 38 spl loads with 125 gr I like W-231 but Bullseye would be a good choice. I shy away from large flake powders like Red Dot as they don't meter well for me, but with a light 38 spl load there is some wiggle room.
I've been using Accurate #2 for 9x18 Makarov with very good results, I need to try it for 38 spl.
 
I'm not sure about the BHN, but I would assume they're around 18, since they're commercial cast. They're "Suter's Choice", 125gr RNFP. Yep, memory fail... I was thinking they were 120gr RN cast.

Specifically, they're going to be loaded for a S&W 638, 2.5" bbl. IIRC. But the majority of them will probably get shot out of a Ruger 5" GP100. I would like to load them *near* the velocity level of the 38 Special Critical Defense that she carries in the 638.

The 638 is her CCW, but she doesn't really enjoy shooting it more than a few times, and she won't go Automatic... so she has kinda pigeonholed herself into the 638 for CCW... But, she'll shoot the Ruger all day long until the ammo is gone.

What I'm thinking is that the Power Factor for the Hornady Critical Defense (110gr bullet @ 1010, according to the box... 111PF). So, if I load these to just a little less, it should be somewhat comparable for practice. I'm thinking load the 125's to about 825fps, which would give a Power Factor of 103, and a little less recoil than the carry loads, but still enough for getting used to it.
According to Alliant data, max fps for +p 125 turf out of a 6" barrel is 1021 with bullseye, non +p is 934 with same barrel, they tested using gold dots, but gives you a rough idea.
 
You're using what's known as a "cowboy action" bullet. Why they use a 15bhn alloy (92/6/2) for those bullets, I don't know.

The 3.0gr reddot load was doing 700fps or less in that snubnose.

I'd be more concerned with the poa/poi than the power factor.

There's a ton of cowboy action reloading data out there. And you have an excellent choice/amount of powders to use. The herco & universal don't do so well with lite loads or medium loads and lite bullets. If it was me I'd be looking at data:
900fps/925fps for 6" bbl.'s
850fps/875fps for 4" bbl.'s

This will get you close to your 825fps in a snubnosed revolver.

On a side note:
I had cast up some himmelwright clones for the 35cal's earlier this year. 1 of them (left) is a 110gr cramer gallery bullet.
V2kVQ2Q.jpg

I don't know why but I decided to test these bullets in a 2" bbl'd snubnosed ca undercover. I really wasn't interested in the 140gr bullet on the right, it's for the 9mm. After pc'ing them, I ended up loading 25/30 ? of those 110gr bullets using 6.0gr of unique (use multiple data sources before reloading anything). They did an impressive 1100fps+ in that snubnosed ca undercover. Looks like I'll be doing more testing with these bullets this year.
 
Looks like all those powders have about the same max velocity, but maybe Universal will push the bullets the fastest... depending on which load data you look at. I’ve had good luck using 125 gr Bullseye and Titegroup data, but you’re likely to get as many opinions as there are powders.
 
3.4 grains Titegroup for Berry's 125 plated fp's out of my 2" snubbies (Charter Arms UC Lite & Taurus Titanium 85). Very manageable recoil and no keyholers.
 
I tried Lee 125 grains RN I cast sized .358" in my 3" S&W Model 60, and was surprised at the low velocities, despite propellants very far on the 'fast' side of the spectrum. I guess for this bullet type/lube/OAL/bearing surface/weight, whatever, it just did not allow a lot of pressure to develop. So for whatever reason I got pretty crappy extreme spreads, and low velocity relative to other factors.

Did not peruse this anymore, as accuracy was middling. FWIW, my data:

Mod 60, 3.5 Clays Lee 125 RN WW SPP
749, 656, 680, 725, 722, av 706 es 93 sd 37

Mod 60, 4.1 gr Red Dot Lee 125 RN WW SPP
789, 850, 768, 785, 804, av 799 es 82 sd 31

To show how significantly more bullet length, a bit more weight seated a lot deeper in the case, with a lot less Clays achieves higher velocities and better ES:

Mod 60, 2.8 gr Clays 148 Horn BBWC WW SPP
747, 768, 732, 729, 738, av 742 es 39 sd 15
 
Sierra has a new smartphone app for reloading rifle & pistol that has a slider for fps.
Pick 1) data 2)rifle/pistol 3) cartridge 4) projectile 5) then move the fps slider.
As you move the slider powder values change, drop in/out.
Pretty neat, just did a quick look at 38 spl 125 gn JHP @ 1100 fps from 6.0 gn Universal.
15 other powders also gave 1100 fps, one of those was 7.7 gn A#5.
My phone is an android, not sure what else it works on, and it'll cost a whopping $5 / year !

Hey that sounds pretty neat... I'll have to check it out.

From the powders you list I would go with Bullseye or Red Dot. I use W231 personally.

I usually load a 158gr cast bullet or a 148gr WC bullet.

With your bullets a very light target load would be 2.8gr Bullseye. Higher end accurate load is 4.0gr Bullseye.
Same bullet but with Red Dot, a charge of 4.0gr will also work well.

I have found a charge of 4.6gr of either to be the top charge weights with a 120/125gr LRN bullet. Those numbers are published, not my guess. I still suggest you look it up, start low and work up.

I've got more RedDot on hand than Bullseye, so I think that's whats going to get used. 4.0gr Red Dot is exactly what I was thinking... but I haven't checked it against the Lyman manual to get a rough idea what the velocity would be.

That's funny I do the same sort of thing for my sweetie:)
For my light 38 spl loads with 125 gr I like W-231 but Bullseye would be a good choice. I shy away from large flake powders like Red Dot as they don't meter well for me, but with a light 38 spl load there is some wiggle room.
I've been using Accurate #2 for 9x18 Makarov with very good results, I need to try it for 38 spl.

She's a good shot with long guns... I sure as hell wouldn't want her shooting at me. Recoil doesn't phase her... she'll shoot 12ga slugs until her shoulder is blue and bruised. But, handguns are kind of a new thing for her, and are presenting a challenge for her, and she doesn't like shooting that 638 with anything much more than the powderpuff loads. I think she just needs to get her hands toughened up to the recoil a bit... she says the grips fit her hands good and she likes the feel of the revolver... but not the recoil. She shoots the Ruger GP100 OK, so I think she just needs to shoot the handguns more and get comfortable with them.

I usually have good luck with flake powders... obviously they don't meter as well as ball powders, but I can usually keep them within +/- .1 with my Uniflow, and my brand new Dillon RL550B was dropping 800X pancakes and holding within .1 of the target with the majority either on target, or .1 low, for the 10 consecutive drops I weighed last week loading some 40's. I couldn't believe it. Never would have expected that good of uniformity with 800X out of any measure. Technique, and consistency of technique is the key with the fluffy flake powders... you have to work the measure exactly the same way each and every time to get consistent drops. I guess the 550B operation is quite consistent, because I sure didn't expect that good of uniformity... I have a new respect for the Dillon powder measure after that performance. I haven't tried any ball powders in it yet though, I hope it doesn't leak.

Enough rambling, I'd better go get some chores done before She Who Must Be Obeyed gets back from her hair appointment LOL!!
 
I think she just needs to get her hands toughened up to the recoil a bit... she says the grips fit her hands good and she likes the feel of the revolver... but not the recoil. She shoots the Ruger GP100 OK, so I think she just needs to shoot the handguns more and get comfortable with them.
The boot grips that come in S&W J frames are meant for good concealment but not extended shooting.

I suggest changing the grips at the range so the gun can be shot more comfortably with extended practice and trigger control. You can then put the boot grips back on for carry.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...ooves-s-and-w-j-frame-round-butt-rubber-black

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brand...er-grips/gripper-professional-grips-2243.html
 
The boot grips that come in S&W J frames are meant for good concealment but not extended shooting.

I suggest changing the grips at the range so the gun can be shot more comfortably with extended practice and trigger control. You can then put the boot grips back on for carry.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...ooves-s-and-w-j-frame-round-butt-rubber-black

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brand...er-grips/gripper-professional-grips-2243.html

Those are nice suggestions. My ex-wife shot the M60 I mention in this thread using the Uncle Mike's grips it came with from the factory, and they worked out great for her. Perfect fit, recoil adsorption (only used fairly mild 148 WC's), not slick, don't get all scratched up. They are a bit thicker, rather than wider as with the Pachmayr as I recall:

DSC_5295.JPG
Also used A Herret type wood grip, that too was in RB form that was a nice grip too:

index.php
 
@Galil5.56, the Uncle Mike's grips you show in the first picture are the magnum grips, not the boot grips that came on the .38 Special J frames. They are slightly longer and very comfortable like you say.

It's too bad S&W didn't renew their contract with Butler to keep using their Uncle Mike's grips. When it was announced they were no longer using them I went on the S&W site and bought a set of J frame boot grips and the longer ones too along with a round/square conversion grip for the K/L frame before they sold out. They got that design right!
 
Well its all coming back to me, for lead bullets with W-231 I recall a lot of smoke from the lube at the upper end not so much with Bullseye.
Most of my light 38 spl loads were with 125gr plated, the lighter the load the more they shot closer (POI) to loads with heavier bullets.
hope this helps.
 
I've been shooting 3.5 grains of Bullseye under my own cast 158 grain semi wad cutters in ..38 Spl. for almost 50 years.I just can't argue with success !!!. hdbiker
 
I looked through my data. Of the powders you listed, 3.5 Grains of titegroup was an accurate, light plinking load according to my notes. I did not Chrono them though. I would guess low 700s out of a snubbie.
 
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