9mm Powder

Vihtavuori 340, when loaded close to max, is the cleanest powder that I've ever used.

W231 is an easy metering powder. Not sure I'd call it "clean" but its not as dirty as others I've used. I've used W231 for thousands of 9mm rounds. It works well. Recently I've used Alliant Sport Pistol and it meters at least as well as W231 if not better seems softer shooting, and appears cleaner.

-Jeff

Give True Blue a try if you can find it local. I love it in most of my handgun loads. Meters excellent, burns clean, and has decent case fill in 9mm. I use it for all my 115gr 9mm loads. Below is regular charge and a double charge of True Blue in a 9mm case.

As said Win231/HP38 are popular for 9mm. BE86 is another powder that gets rave reviews here. So much so I tried it and love it.

My favorites for 9mm is Titegroup, BE-86, Power Pistol, Universal, and 231.
For 115 gr bullets I use 231 almost exclusively. 4.9 gr is a good fit for it. OAL 1.1" or longer.
For 124gr I use more Titegroup than anything else. 4.0-4.1 grain or 3.8 gr. Mostly 4.0-4.1.
BE-86 and Power pistol is good for 124gr also.
Universal and Unique, works decent in about anything.
There are many more powders that do also but these are the one I've had the best luck with. Especially Titegroup but you need to have an accurate powder measure you trust to use it.

DWrso said:

CFE Pistol with good results ... have Win 231 ... 9mm pistol ... Ruger PC9 ... target and some 3 gun ... FMJ 115 gr. bullets.

... likes are good metering, consistency, clean burning if that is possible

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Welcome to THR.

For match shooting (I am guessing 125-130 power factor loads), loads meeting PF requirement could work in both pistol and PCC, but if you want "cleaner" burning as in "less sooty" out of blow back carbine, faster burning than W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol powders may work better than slower burning powders because faster burning powders will expand the case mouth faster to seal with the chamber before bolt extracts the case from the chamber. I prefer to run heavier buffer weight in my 9mm ARs (20+ oz bolt and buffer combined weight) for longer "in chamber time before extraction" but not sure if that option is available to you. While I loaded to 130 PF for USPSA pistol, I would consider comparison testing 130 PF vs 135 PF loads for carbine accuracy (and greater ability to knock down steel) as I found in general higher load data rounds produced greater accuracy (Not always, see 25 yard comparison 10 shot groups below).

With 115 gr FMJ/plated RN bullets, one of my reference load is 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 loaded to 1.130" OAL but this is not the most accurate load for match shooting - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-and-discussions.778197/page-6#post-9924922

You can load some test rounds and see if my reference load is more accurate than your CFE Pistol load.

While at similar burn rate as W231/HP-38, Sport Pistol burns cleaner and growing popular with match shooters - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/w-244.847601/page-2#post-11064447

As to bullet weight, 124/135/147 gr bullets with longer bullet base can make PF easier and provide less "felt recoil" than 115 gr bullet weight. Before you settle down on a bullet weight, it would be advisable to test different bullet weights to see which produces greater accuracy and felt recoil you prefer (With greater ability to knock down steel). If you like, I can send you a "Pay it Forward" various 115/124/135/147 gr bullet sample pack for testing (PM me if interested).


As to typical 9mm carbine accuracy at 25 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-carbine-accuracy.683944/


BTW, thread on loading match loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-9mm-continues.845981/page-5#post-11034535


Here are some comparison 25 yard 10 shot groups (With mixed range brass so expect flyers) starting with 115 gr FMJ 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 which is my reference load comparable to Winchester white box - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-more-accurate-loads.841097/#post-10919894



115 gr FMJ with 4.4 - 4.5 gr Promo (Loaded short at 1.110"-1.115" for short leade Lone Wolf barrel) is my "econo" plinking load that works well in all pistols and shoots well in blowback carbines due to fast burning powder (4.1 - 4.2 gr Promo is a pleasure to shoot in subcompacts like Shield 9mm) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-more-accurate-loads.841097/#post-10919894



Sport Pistol recently replaced W231/HP-38 as my reference powder as it meters better (.05 gr or less compared to .1 for W231/HP-38) and essentially uses the same powder charge as W231/HP-38 with less temperature sensitivity and cleaner burning than N320.

For this testing, I tried to see if shorter 1.110" produced smaller groups than 1.130" and it showed promise (circled group).



What small change in powder charge (Chamber pressure) can do to group size and why I prefer powders and measure combo to produce .1 gr or less powder charge variance - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10702450



What small change in OAL can do to group size (Yes, I am using mixed range brass, so that may explain the one lone flyer on 1.130" group ). BTW, IMR Target is often overlooked powder for accurate loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/sport-pistol-and-9mm.840966/#post-10918438

Win231. There might be more suitable powders for different cartridges, but .380, 9mm, .40SW, .45ACP, .38SPCL, .357MAG all simple with Win231/HP38 - a lot broader range but I did all those with it & worked well. I like just stocking 1 pistol powder & it just works in [mostly] anything. I'm sure there are other utilitarian pistol powders like that with a broad range of what they work well in.

I'm not an experimenter - it would drive me nuts to have a bench like most guys with some of this, some of that, 20 different unsealed containers, a dozen more waiting to be tried. I get that's part of the fun for many & that's great for them. Just me....I still get kind of upset I stock A1680 & Win296 for the sole purpose of 300BLK - at least the Win296 overlaps & is great for full house .357MAG loads. Otherwise, all things pistol get Win231, all things rifle get H335 or IMR 4895. But if I got out of 300BLK or loaded up a lifetime supply (don't shoot insane amounts of it), I'd be fine with only 3 different flavors of powder.

I stuck with power pistol for quite awhile. Meters well and never had a problem. I bought a few lbs of CFE to try out eventually.

231, BE86,WSF & Sport pistol all good

Vitavouri powders are the cleanest I have come across. For 9mm I have used as fast as N310 and as slow as 3N37.

W231 and BE86 is what I use..

I loaded 231 / HP38 for years. Switched to BE-86. LOVE IT!

So far I’ve struck out with WSF, HP-38 and Unique with 115 gr FMJ out of a G19 Gen 5. They all shot ok but so far HS-6 at 6.8 gr has grouped the best. I’ve started adjusting the HS-6 loads and COL to see how much tighter I can get the groupings.

WSF worked well with 147 gr Molly coated bullets out of my wife’s Walther.

I’ll probably try some 124 and 147 gr bullets later on.

I have some BE-86 on the way.

After a long stench with HS6 and powder being so available now I have been messing around with BE 86 and Sport Pistol, for me I am leaning towards Sport Pistol for a general purpose 9mm target/paper puncher type
Load,

I use a lot of W231/HP-38 in the 9mm and it does very well. Meters nice and consistently in my Lee Powder measures and like shown with the True Blue it fills the case nicely too. Found it to be very forgiving from load to load and has produced one of the most accurate loads with 115/124gr plated bullets. The other 2 powders I have found I like are Ramshot Silhouette and AA#2. The Ramshot is a bit slower than the W231 and the AA#2 being faster. I now actually prefer the Silhouette for use in 9mm, 380 and 45acp but when compared against the W231 it is hard to distinguish any difference in performance or accuracy when used in the 9mm.

I also like the Silhouette because it's flash suppressed and we do a lot of shooting at indoor ranges and I have noticed a difference in the indoor air.

WST & AA#2
Not sure what you mean by "target" but this is my target load. Not hand/cherry picked by any means. Nothing more than the test target used that day testing loads in a nm 1911 chambered in 9mm

forrest r said:

WST & AA#2 ... this is my target load (5.0 gr WST ... 125 gr MI HEC HP)

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Wait, 5.0 gr of WST with 125 gr HP bullet seems awfully stout load. I see "MI HEC" on the target picture. Are these lead bullets out of Mi Hec molds?

For me, 4.4 gr of WST with 124 gr FMJ/RN at 1.145" OAL starts to compress powder charge and WST gets spikey at the top. I usually use 4.0 gr WST with 124 gr bullets and make sure finished rounds had good neck tension and did not experience bullet setback when fed/chambered from the magazine.

5.0 gr of WST seems more appropriate for 115 gr bullet weight. And keep in mind WST is reverse temperature sensitive (Faster when colder) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10117881

And Accurate #2 load data for 124 gr lead RN max is listed at 3.8 gr and 4.1 gr for +P (115 gr lead RN max 4.4 gr) - http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf

DISCLAIMER: There is no current published WST load data from Hodgdon for 9mm. Use all WST 9mm loads you see posted at your own risk.

BTW, THR forum rules for posting heavy loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/

Lots of good powders mentioned here. I started with Power Pistol, really like it, and it is all I will use in my 16" 9mm carbine. However, lots of powders will work well in 9mm. For clean burning, most if not all powders will burn cleaner at the top end of the charge range. So, if you want reduced recoil loads, use a faster burning powder. Go the to slower burning powders for more velocity. For instance, in 9mm, AA#2, #5, and #7 will all work, but #2 is best for lower velocity loads and #7 is best for max velocity loads.

Yes those are mihec's 125gr cast bullets that have been pc'd.

I've used that 5.0gr load of wst for 124gr/125gr bullets in the 9mm for decades.
FWIW:
Winchester/hodgdon never did a lot of testing with wst. Hornady 4th edition has all their 124gr bullet loads listed using 4.8gr of wst for a starting load and 5.4gr a max load of wst. The 5.0gr load of wst/124gr bullet is listed as doing 1050fps in a 4" bbl per Hornady. I'm getting 1100fps out of the 5" bbl'd 1911.

I also use a lot of power pistol in the 9mm. But those loads aren't "target" loads, their thumpers. I'm getting 1100fps out of a 3.2" bbl'd compact 9mm using hot pp loads and that same Mihec cast 125gr hp.

forrest r said:

Yes those are mihec's 125gr cast bullets that have been pc'd.

Hornady 4th edition has all their 124gr bullet loads listed using 4.8gr of wst for a starting load and 5.4gr a max load of wst. The 5.0gr load of wst/124gr bullet is listed as doing 1050fps in a 4" bbl per Hornady. I'm getting 1100fps out of the 5" bbl'd 1911.

Click to expand...

Thanks. What OAL did you use?

I did some digging and found more chrono data by member mongoose33 for coated lead bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-115-and-wst.493588/#post-6129294

"I've been doing a lot of shooting w/ WST out of 9mm, but using 125gr LFP from Precision Bullets. It's lead w/ a coating ... Anyway, here's a workup for those 125gr bullets in 9mm using WST with mean velocity in fps (Fired from a Springfield XD 9mm with a 4" barrel. Bullets are .356):

Wt. Mean ES SD
4.0 1008 23 9
4.2 1032 57 21
4.4 1035 82 32
4.6 1068 65 23
4.8 1087 40 15
5.0 1110 67 26

Just as a comparison, I was out yesterday testing WST under the 124gr Hornady XTP bullet which is jacketed unlike the Precision bullet. At 4.8 grains my velocity with those XTPs averaged 1143 fps."

Winchester/hodgdon never did a lot of testing with wst. Hornady 4th edition has all their 124gr bullet loads listed using 4.8gr of wst for a starting load and 5.4gr a max load of wst. The 5.0gr load of wst/124gr bullet is listed as doing 1050fps in a 4" bbl per Hornady. I'm getting 1100fps out of the 5" bbl'd 1911.

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WST of WSF??
5.0 of WSF seems about right for a 124.

4.5gr of WSF is giving me about 1020
String: 5
Date: 9/17/2017
Time: 11:24:26 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1037
Low Vel: 1012
Ave Vel: 1021
Ext Spread: 25
Std Dev: 9
RMR MPR JHP 4.5 WSF 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1021 126.604 286.995
1018 126.232 285.311
1012 125.488 281.958
1020 126.48 286.433
1037 128.588 296.061

Longer OAL but WSF numbers from Hodgdon
125 FMJ Winchester WSF 0.355 1.16 4.7 1015 27,700 PSI 5.3 1115 32,700 PSI Start 4.7 MAX 5.3

There are so so many many powders that can be used for 9mm

HP38/Win231 works just fine, been using it for years. Also use Longshot, Power Pistol et etc.

HP38 works and works well for other calibers also.

The powder is WST. I was a huge AA452 fan and winchester did away with it & made WST for a replacement.


I tend to use the same oal for most fn bullets, the mihec 125(green) next to a lyman 35870 fn bullet designed/1st sold in 1900.


I made a custom hollow base stem for that 35870 hb fn bullet. Did some 50yd testing with it. Lite loads, hollow based bullets & a #8 spring in the nm 1911/9mm


WST & AA#2 are well worth taking a look at. Both powders are known for their extreme accuracy in cartridges like the 32lc/38spl/9mm/44spl/45acp.