Loading 9mm for a short barrel
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jmorris
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I bet a majority of 9mm’s in existence have barrels under 5”, how short are we talking?
I use the same loads for the shortest of my 9mm’s as I do my carbines. If you want a lot of flash or are trying to get the most out of a compensator use slower powders, if the opposite is your goal, use faster ones.
I use the same loads for the shortest of my 9mm’s as I do my carbines. If you want a lot of flash or are trying to get the most out of a compensator use slower powders, if the opposite is your goal, use faster ones.
I have not tested specifically for getting the most FPS from a 3" barrel with minimal flash/bang vs other powders, but a couple of times N-340 got my attention with velocities in my 3" EMP when I had it. Could have been a fluke.
As with all barrels, the most velocity is going to be a max charge of the slowest/highest energy content powder suitable to the bullet weight. Limited only by case volume and max pressures.
My plinker load for quite some time has been a 124 gr plated bullet running about 1050ish from a 5" barrel using N-320, and I shoot that in barrels from 3" to 16". Works great in all of them. With that powder speed it does well enough in shorter than 5" barrels, but gains basically nothing in the 16" barreled AR due to powder speed/charge weight. I imagine it gains some velocity after 5" but slows down as the powder runs out and drag overtakes pressure. Sport Pistol is an excellent newer powder for this.
So what is the goal for the 3" barrel, or is the question do you need to change what you are doing for a 3" barrel?
As with all barrels, the most velocity is going to be a max charge of the slowest/highest energy content powder suitable to the bullet weight. Limited only by case volume and max pressures.
My plinker load for quite some time has been a 124 gr plated bullet running about 1050ish from a 5" barrel using N-320, and I shoot that in barrels from 3" to 16". Works great in all of them. With that powder speed it does well enough in shorter than 5" barrels, but gains basically nothing in the 16" barreled AR due to powder speed/charge weight. I imagine it gains some velocity after 5" but slows down as the powder runs out and drag overtakes pressure. Sport Pistol is an excellent newer powder for this.
So what is the goal for the 3" barrel, or is the question do you need to change what you are doing for a 3" barrel?
LiveLife
Member
When moderator taliv requested information on low flash powder to use with night vision, I repeated my low light/night time muzzle flash testing using Night Owl XGenPro night vision scope.
Here's repost of my testing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/need-low-flash-9mm-powder.809859/page-2#post-10357740
"Four loads were tested using Glock 22/KKM 40-9 conversion barrel (10 rounds of each load were fired):
HP-38 4.8 gr RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130" - This load was used as reference and produced 4" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash from the side (Shooter's point of view - 1.5" round flash).
Promo 3.8-4.0 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 1" high faint orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 0.5" round flash). In low light, muzzle flash was almost non-detectable.
BE-86 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 2" long by 3" high bright orange muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 3" round flash). This was by far the brightest muzzle flash of four powders tested.
CFE-Pistol 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 2" round flash)."
OP didn't specify whether full power defensive or lighter target load was needed but for general purpose range practice/plinking load, it's hard to beat Promo, especially cost per round.
I load for M&P Shield 9mm with 3.1" barrel, similar to OP's pistol.
Conventional reloading wisdom tells us faster burning powders produce more snappy felt recoil. Well ... then why do so many bullseye and action pistol match shooters use faster burning powders?
Reducing felt recoil yet producing accuracy can be done with faster burning powders.With RMR 115 gr FMJ and 4.4-4.5 gr Promo loaded to 1.130" OAL out of Shield 9mm, this load produces felt recoil less than Winchester white box yet produces comparable level of accuracy (slightly larger groups) good enough for range practice and shooting drills (With 3" barrel shooting off hand, I don't think you could tell the difference) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-more-accurate-loads.841097/#post-10920001
With 4.1 - 4.2 gr Promo, felt recoil with Shield 9mm is a dream load to shoot. And if you want to squeeze out a little more accuracy, reduce OAL to 1.110".
I often take my coworkers and their families/neighbors shooting for defensive shooting training. Many of them have 9mm compacts and subcompacts like Glock 19/M&P Shield 9/Taurus G2 and I load RMR pulled 115/124 gr bullets for low cost practice (Plated bullets for pistol and jacketed bullets for 9mm AR carbines) but RMR in-house 115 gr FMJ with 4.4-4.5 gr and 4.1-4.2 gr Promo loads are standby loads I always keep in my range bags.
For accuracy testing reference, I use 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol loaded to 1.130".
For range work I'm going to try my standard 9mm load. 147 gr cast bullet over 2.7 gr Ramshot Competition.
Then I need to work up a SD load. I cast up a bunch of softer lead hollow point bullets today. I plan on using those.
Then I need to work up a SD load. I cast up a bunch of softer lead hollow point bullets today. I plan on using those.
sparkyv
Member
Charlie98
Member
It's interesting... I've just started loading for 9mm after about a 25 year break. I was completely out of the 9mm business for a while, but after I started carrying a Kahr CW9 for my daily carry, and picked up a few more, I thought I'd give it another whirl. Part of the reason I quit Back Then was the very poor results I got with Unique... I would go from a short cycling round, to a cratered primer... it was bizarre, and this was with me hand measuring each charge (back then.)
Fast forward to today, I loaded some test loads with TiteGroup (I have a little over a pound I want to burn up as quickly as possible,) WST, and BE-86. With my short barreled Kahrs (3" and 3.6") there was definitely a threshold where a slower powder, in this case BE-86, stops being efficient. To quote myself from a different post...
I would concur. The little bit I've worked with BE-86 and the 124grn 9mm load, I got good performance from 5.4grn BE-86... but there is a point of diminishing returns, at least for me in my shorter-barreled Kahrs (3.6" and 3", respectively.) The 5.4grn load was excellent, the 5.8grn load only produced 10fps more velocity out of either pistol, and dumped unburnt powder on my hand. It makes sense being BE is a fairly slow powder.
I bought a can of W244 this week, I think I'll work on the faster powders to test with the 9mm, and save the BE-86 for the .45ACP, unless I start loading 147grn 9mm bullets... then the slower powder might make sense. I'm actually doing the same thing with lighter bullets in the .45ACP right now, too.
Fast forward to today, I loaded some test loads with TiteGroup (I have a little over a pound I want to burn up as quickly as possible,) WST, and BE-86. With my short barreled Kahrs (3" and 3.6") there was definitely a threshold where a slower powder, in this case BE-86, stops being efficient. To quote myself from a different post...
I would concur. The little bit I've worked with BE-86 and the 124grn 9mm load, I got good performance from 5.4grn BE-86... but there is a point of diminishing returns, at least for me in my shorter-barreled Kahrs (3.6" and 3", respectively.) The 5.4grn load was excellent, the 5.8grn load only produced 10fps more velocity out of either pistol, and dumped unburnt powder on my hand. It makes sense being BE is a fairly slow powder.
I bought a can of W244 this week, I think I'll work on the faster powders to test with the 9mm, and save the BE-86 for the .45ACP, unless I start loading 147grn 9mm bullets... then the slower powder might make sense. I'm actually doing the same thing with lighter bullets in the .45ACP right now, too.
Date : 5-16 Temp : 83 Degrees 35% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 36.5 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.120 to 1.125
Powder : N340 Weight : 5.7 Grs Compressed Bushing / Setting : 26.6 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR Weight : 124 Gr Type / Dia. / OAL : JHP- .3555 / .585 +/- .001
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 1118 HI 1250 HI 1316
LO 1101 LO 1225 LO 1299
AVG 1110 AVG 1234 AVG 1307
ES 17 ES 25 ES 17
SD 6 SD 8 SD 6
This is MAX, start low and work up carefully. 5.7 Grs on N340 with some bullets/OALs is too hot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My "plinker" load.
Date : 5-16 Temp : 83 Degrees 35% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 32.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.085
Powder : N320 Weight : 3.9 Grs 98% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 18.0 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR Hardcore Match Weight : 124 Gr Plated Type / Dia. / OAL : HP - .3565 / .557-.560
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 977 HI 1073 HI 1091
LO 937 LO 1038 LO 1037
AVG 957 AVG 1055 AVG 1066
ES 40 ES 35 ES 54
SD 14 SD 13 SD 18
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 5-16 Temp : 83 Degrees 35% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 34.5 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.090 to 1.095
Powder : 3N37 Weight : 7.2 Grs Max - Not Average 100% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 28.9 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : Federal Sale Weight : 90 Gr Type / Dia. / OAL : JHP- .3545 / .476/80
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 1283 HI 1426 HI 1628
LO 1240 LO 1409 LO 1604
AVG 1260 AVG 1415 AVG 1618
ES 43 ES 17 ES 24
SD 15 SD 5 SD 9
High speed low drag. This is also MAX, work up carefully.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 09-18 Temp : 84 Degrees 66% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Blazer 60.24 to 61.02 Grs No primer Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 33.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : .746 to .751 as is Primer : CCI 500 Cartridge OAL : 1.073 to 1.075
Powder : Sport Pistol Weight : 3.9 Grs 95% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 14.9 on 10X by GP-250
Bullet : RMR "Match Winner" Weight : 124 Gr Jacketed Type / Dia. / OAL : TrFP - .3555 / .555
3" P-365 4.5" XDm OSP 5" Colt Series 80
HI 976 HI 1069 HI 1095
LO 955 LO 1048 LO 1060
AVG 967 AVG 1059 AVG 1075
ES 21 ES 21 ES 35
SD 10 SD 7 SD 10
Basically an equivalent of my N320 plinker load using Sport Pistol.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 09-18 Temp : 84 Degrees 66% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Blazer 60.24 to 61.02 Grs No primer Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 33.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : .746 to .751 as is Primer : CCI 500 Cartridge OAL : 1.073 to 1.075
Powder : Silhouette Weight : 5.3 Grs 5.28 to 5.32 Bushing / Setting : 16.1 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR "Match Winner" Weight : 124 Gr Jacketed Type / Dia. / OAL : TrFP - .3555 / .555
3" P-365 4.5" XDm OSP 5" Colt Series 80
HI 1009 HI 1130 HI 1156
LO 984 LO 1103 LO 1143
AVG 998 AVG 1121 AVG 1150
ES 25 ES 27 ES 13
SD 9 SD 8 SD 4
These should give a fair idea of what to expect from a 3"/3.1" barrel vs 4.5"/5" barrels. And of course some barrels are faster than others.
Use any data here with care.
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 36.5 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.120 to 1.125
Powder : N340 Weight : 5.7 Grs Compressed Bushing / Setting : 26.6 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR Weight : 124 Gr Type / Dia. / OAL : JHP- .3555 / .585 +/- .001
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 1118 HI 1250 HI 1316
LO 1101 LO 1225 LO 1299
AVG 1110 AVG 1234 AVG 1307
ES 17 ES 25 ES 17
SD 6 SD 8 SD 6
This is MAX, start low and work up carefully. 5.7 Grs on N340 with some bullets/OALs is too hot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My "plinker" load.
Date : 5-16 Temp : 83 Degrees 35% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 32.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.085
Powder : N320 Weight : 3.9 Grs 98% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 18.0 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR Hardcore Match Weight : 124 Gr Plated Type / Dia. / OAL : HP - .3565 / .557-.560
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 977 HI 1073 HI 1091
LO 937 LO 1038 LO 1037
AVG 957 AVG 1055 AVG 1066
ES 40 ES 35 ES 54
SD 14 SD 13 SD 18
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 5-16 Temp : 83 Degrees 35% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Mixed Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 34.5 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : N/A Primer : Fed 100 Cartridge OAL : 1.090 to 1.095
Powder : 3N37 Weight : 7.2 Grs Max - Not Average 100% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 28.9 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : Federal Sale Weight : 90 Gr Type / Dia. / OAL : JHP- .3545 / .476/80
3" EMP 5" S&W Pro 16" RRA AR
HI 1283 HI 1426 HI 1628
LO 1240 LO 1409 LO 1604
AVG 1260 AVG 1415 AVG 1618
ES 43 ES 17 ES 24
SD 15 SD 5 SD 9
High speed low drag. This is also MAX, work up carefully.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 09-18 Temp : 84 Degrees 66% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Blazer 60.24 to 61.02 Grs No primer Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 33.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : .746 to .751 as is Primer : CCI 500 Cartridge OAL : 1.073 to 1.075
Powder : Sport Pistol Weight : 3.9 Grs 95% Load Density Bushing / Setting : 14.9 on 10X by GP-250
Bullet : RMR "Match Winner" Weight : 124 Gr Jacketed Type / Dia. / OAL : TrFP - .3555 / .555
3" P-365 4.5" XDm OSP 5" Colt Series 80
HI 976 HI 1069 HI 1095
LO 955 LO 1048 LO 1060
AVG 967 AVG 1059 AVG 1075
ES 21 ES 21 ES 35
SD 10 SD 7 SD 10
Basically an equivalent of my N320 plinker load using Sport Pistol.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date : 09-18 Temp : 84 Degrees 66% RH Conditions : Sunny
Case : Blazer 60.24 to 61.02 Grs No primer Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : 33.0 on Hornady Seater
Trimmed : .746 to .751 as is Primer : CCI 500 Cartridge OAL : 1.073 to 1.075
Powder : Silhouette Weight : 5.3 Grs 5.28 to 5.32 Bushing / Setting : 16.1 on 10X by GP 250
Bullet : RMR "Match Winner" Weight : 124 Gr Jacketed Type / Dia. / OAL : TrFP - .3555 / .555
3" P-365 4.5" XDm OSP 5" Colt Series 80
HI 1009 HI 1130 HI 1156
LO 984 LO 1103 LO 1143
AVG 998 AVG 1121 AVG 1150
ES 25 ES 27 ES 13
SD 9 SD 8 SD 4
These should give a fair idea of what to expect from a 3"/3.1" barrel vs 4.5"/5" barrels. And of course some barrels are faster than others.
Use any data here with care.
CMV
Member
I picked up a P365 today too! Was debating back & forth, went to buy it last week, bought something else instead.....but finally just went & got it.Really like it. Like a baby P320
FWIW I only fed it 115gr coated cast & FMJ reloads & a mag of 147gr Winchester Ranger-T.
115gr Win FMJ
1.122 COAL
4.8gr W231
Fiocchi SPP
115gr ACME coated
1.115 COAL
4.5gr W231
Fiocchi SPP
It liked everything, but didn't shoot for groups - just wanted to go fast and also try to make it fail limp wristing and with poor single hand grips. Didn't miss anything 4" or larger after first mag. Did have to adjust grip some for it though. Needed to cant my left hand a little farther forward and press a little harder with meaty part of left hand under thumb to go as fast [almost] with it as a bigger gun. But overall really was impressed. I couldn't make fail even on the lighter ammo and compared to my P938 (basically same size all around) was much better by any measure. 200 rds not much of a torture test, but no issues. The striker marks on the brass are strange - some look like a typical firing pin dot, some look like a long drag all the way to edge, some in between. Not sure what that's about of if it matters, just thought it was odd.
Anyway, I think you might find out it's going to eat anything its big brothers do without complaint.
Lennyjoe
Member
So far I’ve tried WSF, HP-38, Unique and HS-6 under 115 gr Speer FMJ and HS-6 has been the better choice out of a Gen 5 G19.
Charlie98
Member
My Kahrs do that sometimes, and particularly the P45 I had. I'm guessing the inertia of the slide recoiling keeps the firing pin forward against the fired cartridge primer... the swipe happens when the barrel unlocks from the slide and cams down.
I also load for a kahr cm9 as well. It's about a 3" barrel, and getting velocities that generate power factors of around 125-130 is tricky with 147s. Fast powders like Zip won't do it for mine, but they do make mild shooting loads.
I settled on silhouette. But anything slower than w321 is where I'd try. Power pistol might be a good choice for SD but for the well known fireball.
Lot of newer powders like W244 seem promising.
I settled on silhouette. But anything slower than w321 is where I'd try. Power pistol might be a good choice for SD but for the well known fireball.
Lot of newer powders like W244 seem promising.
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