45 Colt rifle loads

When you say over 1000 fps, is that from a handgun or the rifle? Normal pressure 45 Colt ammo shot in a handgun will usually generate 900 fps. When shot from the Rossi's longer barrel it will generate higher velocities. If you are trying for 1000 fps you may not need to load your ammo hotter when shot in the levergun.

I'm told the levergun has a stronger action than a revolver. I don't know about the Rossi, I have never tested it.

Bullet?
Rossi 1892?
Lever action strength depends more on design than age.
If yours is a 92 clone, it is one of the strongest pistol caliber rifle actions there is. The Winchester 1892 action is very strong, IIRC Rossi chambered their '92 clones in .454 Casull for a while.
But even with standard pressure loads 1000 fps is easily achieved in a rifle with cast/coated or jacketed bullets up to 250 grains.
Get yourself some coated lead flat points, a bottle of Unique, and a Lyman reloading manual.

Your Rossi 1892 is plenty strong enough for any load up to .44 magnum rifle velocities. Marlins, Rossis, and Henry Big Boys all are offered in both .44 magnum and .45 Colt.
A bonus with .45 Colt is that it's greater case volume (than .44 magnum) allows you to achieve magnum velocities with the same bullet weight at lower chamber pressures.
Typical factory .44 magnum ammo will have a pressure around 34000 PSI while equivalent velocity .45 Colt handloads will be around 25000 PSI (with equivalent bullet).

But, I hear ya when you say that you just want something over 1000 FPS. I have some .45 Colt rifle loads loads from the Lyman 48TH Edition Reloading Handbook.

For cast lead bullets:

250 grain #452664 Lyman cast Cowboy bullet from a 16" barrel (19" or 20" barrel will be slightly greater velocity.) - factory load
- 8.2 grains Unique / 1101 FPS. (931 FPS in 7 1/2" revolver) (8.0 grains of Universal would be equivalent)
- 10.5 grains HS-6 / 1066 FPS
- 7.5 grains PB / 1010 FPS
- 6.5 grains Red Dot / 1005 FPS
- 6.2 grains Titegroup / 1020 FPS
- 7.4 grains 231 / 1031 FPS

With a cast semi-wadcutter of 255 grains (Lyman #452424) velocities are similar.
The above handloads all seem to reflect a very cautious maximum by Lyman for fear that anything greater might be used in a weaker Italian replica Henry, 1866, 1873, or Burgess rifle.

9.0 grains of Unique (or 8.5 grains of Universal) would also be a standard pressure Colt SAA revolver load and get you to 1200 FPS or so in a 19"-20" rifle with a 250 grain lead bullet.
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From the Alliant Powder website:

250 grain Speer lead SWC (5 1/2" barrel)
- 9.5 grains Unique / 941 FPS
- 12.9 grains Blue Dot / 1028 FPS
- 15.4 grains 2400 / 972 FPS

The above would all run around 1200 FPS or more in a 20 " barrel rifle.

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More Lyman loads:

250 grain JHP/ Hornaday XTP (16" barrel)
- 9.3 grains Unique / 1102 FPS
- 9.0 grains Power Pistol / 1091 FPS
- 17.5 grains 2400 / 1236 FPS

240 grain JHP (16" barrel)
- 11.0 grains HS-6 / 1101 FPS
- 9.5 grains Unique / 1176 FPS
- 9.2 grains Power Pistol / 1127 FPS

Likewise, Lyman lists these as cautious maximums with the weak action Italian replicas in mind, but these would be easy on your Rossi IMHO. They might not be wise for extended use in the Italian weak action replicas though.

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Any of these loads would be good.

But I take no responsibility for the accuracy or results of such data (Standard Disclaimer )

You should pickup a copy of the Lyman handbook and and maybe one which features .45 Colt rifle loads for stronger actions.

The Rossi 92 is stronger than a large frame Ruger Blackhawk and will live all day long at 32,000psi. In fact, there has been data presented that approaches 50,000psi. So you won't find a published handload that will hurt it. The only real limitation is the slow 1-30" twist.

From the data your going to use (traditional or some of the hotter data published) select loads that use the slower powders while still staying under what ever pressure limit you are comfortable with. The longer barrel of the carbine will utilizing the slower powders more efficiently than a pistol will.

Example:
I worked up two load (same bullet different powders) for my 44 Mag revolver, both produced ~1350 fps in my 6.5 inch M29.
The one using the relatively fast 800-x only got to 1600fps in my 16-inch Rossi M92
The one using the slower H110 got to just over 1700fps in my 16-inch Rossi M92.

I use 6.2gr of TiteGroup under a 255gr SWC with effective results in my Henry.

.40

jval said:

Just getting back into reloading after a ten year break. Thanks for the detailed responses, yes, I meant to say Rossi 92 rifle, 20 inch. I'm using 700x now with 250 gr Nosler. Titegroup produces lots of blowback with 200 gr RN lead. Also, the 700x does not feed well in my RCBS. Sounds like Unique might be the answer. I assume it is round pellets rather than flakes and will feed well. I also have a Uberti 45 SA, but I use minimum loads so my grandson can handle it. So, Im hearing a general consensus (with disclaimers) that I can safely load the Rossi R92 rifle to around 25,000 CUP

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Yes. No problem on the pressure IMHO. Supposedly, .45 Colt cases are not quite as strong as .44 magnum cases, but others disagree. Loaded to .44 magnum velocities with a 240-250 grain bullet produces less chamber pressure than with .44 magnum, and modern .45 Colt cases have a solid head and web area much like the .44 magnum so in practice they should be just fine IMHO.

Unique is shaped like tiny flat discs, as are Blue, Red, and Green Dot powders and also Herco.
I used Unique for many years and then tried Hodgdon Universal, since it was supposed to be so similar in burning characteristics.
As I recall, since it has finer granules (almost like grey 4F black powder in appearance) it meters better in typical drum type powder measures.
Also, I think that it burns cleaner.

Anybody else think so?

....Also, the 700x does not feed well in my RCBS. Sounds like Unique might be the answer. I assume it is round pellets rather than flakes and will feed well. I also have a Uberti 45 SA, but I use minimum loads so my grandson can handle it. So, Im hearing a general consensus (with disclaimers) that I can safely load the Rossi R92 rifle to around 25,000 CUP

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You get ‘blowback’ because the pressure is too low. No, Unique is not a ball powder and feeds “okay” in most powder measures. I suggest using either AA-5 or Universal, both have similar but not identical burn rates compared to Unique. They both meter better.

The Rossi can safely handle 25,000 CUP but not the Uberti. Unless you clearly mark which loads are for which firearm and are very careful not to interchange the loads, don’t exceed factory pressures for any loads or the revolver may be accidently abused. Factory pressures in the Rossi will easily surpass your 1000 fps if you don’t choose the faster powders. Speer data showed 8.5 grains of Universal gave 230-grain bullets 1086 fps in a 16” M94 Trapper. I can’t find the chrono data for my Trapper right now....

BTW, Hornady shows that the Rossi has a twist rate of 1:16”, plenty for most any .452” bullet. Other sources say 1:30”, which is still plenty for ‘normal’ .45LC bullets.


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I don't know how Hornady would have a better clue about Rossi's twist rate. It is 1-30", trust me. Which would be fine for up to 300gr bullets. Only the late model Taylor's 1892's have the proper 1-16" twist rate.

jval said:

Thanks for your detailed response. That's what I needed to hear. Looks like Universal will be my choice for heavier/faster loads. I'll be using 200 gr RN lead for the Uberti SA Colt

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Good idea, Universal was developed to mimic Unique only if meters better.

I used a lot of W231 in the 45 Colt until I tried HS-6, I have been using it ever since. I always thought a fast powder was best for the 45 Colt, it seems not. I can generate more velocity with less pressure with HS-6 and in my guns it's very accurate. If course there is nothing wrong with Universal, just be aware of can spike pressures at the top end of the pressure range at times. You won't need to push it to achieve 1000 fps from a 20" barrel so I wouldn't worry.

I use 8.2gr of Universal under a Lee 255 RFN. Gets 1,150+/-FPS from a 24”bbl. just enough pressure to obtain obturation. Slightly over Hodgdon SAA max of 7.8gr. Kills deer and pigs with authority!
I prefer Magtech brass as it’s thinner than Starline.

See . . . https://www.chuckhawks.com/loading_45Colt_rifles.htm
. . . also http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

I've got a Marlin 1894 in .41 Magnum... an action not as strong as the 92 action, but plenty strong for .41 and .44 Magnum cartridges. I've always used Unique in my .41 loads, but after experimenting with IMR4227 in the 1894, have switched to that. It's not the best powder for my .41 pistols, but it sure does shine in the 20" rifle barrel... without the punishment of something like W296.

I got into sort of a circular argument about the strength of modern levergun actions, and how high you could push loads in them, particularly with the .45 Colt. My brother has a Winchester Trapper in .45, and I wanted to maximize the barrel length. The disagreement started with the idea that if I wanted .45 Colt Magnum loads, I should just get a .44 Magnum... not to push the .45 Colt beyond it's limits. Conversely, however, people load Ruger-level loads all day long and twice on Sunday with good results, why not in a modern lever-action... which was really my question originally, not Magnum-izing the .45 Colt. Since I've found IMR4227, I've also started testing it in my .45 Colt handloads... for both my Ruger pistol and, eventually, my brother's Trapper. I think, besides Unique, which will certainly get you to 1000fps in the rifle barrel, IMR4227 would be a good choice, too.

Craig also mentioned twist rate... I found out the hard way about twist in the .45 Colt. I also had a 1894 in .45 Colt... with terrible 1:38 twist. My initial loads of a 255grn cast over a charge of Unique produced shotgun patterns... and it really had me befuddled. I got into a discussion with the guy I sold it to, with the lazy rifling twist you have to get that velocity up to stabilize the heavier bullets... just FYI.

I love Unique but especially in pistol cartridge rifles. My 240gr/10gr load in the .44 gives me nearly 1200fps in sixguns and over 1400fps in rifles and is extremely pleasant to shoot.

H110 and No 5 are my go to powders for the 1892. The excellent thing about the Colt is that you will find as many loadings as their are people posting. Lots of excellent choices.

I'm more likely to stick with the propellants that tend to fill the case up at least half way to make the possibility of a double charge less likely.
I like using about 10 grains of unique in 180gr 44spl loads for that reason. A load of 8 to 10 grains of unique would fill a 45 colt case up at least half way I would think.
(Note, for an actual old 44spl that's pretty hot, but it's nothing if you only own 44mag guns)

With the .45 Colt I’m a 9.3 gr Unique under a 230 gr LRN shooter when firing my Rossi 92 with the 16” barrel. It thwacks down smaller scale AR 500 steel silhouettes and loose bowling pins like they were hit with a bowling ball.

In the 4 5/8” old Vaquero they load through the gate much easier than SWC bullets do, and these also hit my silhouettes nicely.

jval said:

Am I correct in assuming that the frame/bolt/action in the Rossi 44 Mag and 45 Colt are the same except for bolt face? Seems that would be the case since the 44 Mag bullet is .42 and the Colt bullet is .45. That would also support the assumption that the Colt could be loaded to achieve 1,500 fps at 36,000 cup. But, that being said, the CUP in the colt should be a little lower given the larger case volume. Your thoughts?

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I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference was the barrel. 44 Mag rim diameter is nominally larger than 45 Colt by .002 inch. 44 Mag is .514 -.010 and 45 Colt is .512 -.012. For functional purposes they can probably be treated that same and the entire bolt, breech face and extractor could be designed to be the same and thus interchangeable between the two if they wanted. I would bet it's more likely the cartridge guide rails that guide the cartridge as it rising from the magazine are more likely to be cartridge specific than the breach face between 44 Mag and 45 Colt versions.

jval said:

Am I correct in assuming that the frame/bolt/action in the Rossi 44 Mag and 45 Colt are the same except for bolt face? Seems that would be the case since the 44 Mag bullet is .42 and the Colt bullet is .45. That would also support the assumption that the Colt could be loaded to achieve 1,500 fps at 36,000 cup. But, that being said, the CUP in the colt should be a little lower given the larger case volume. Your thoughts?

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If you look at Hodgdon's online load data, using a 250grn bullet, for example, over a charge of H110 gives 1455fps in a 7.5" barreled Ruger... this being a 'Ruger Only' load, of course. You could certainly achieve 1500fps with a lesser load in a rifle or carbine barrel. My data is upstairs, but I think in my 20" .41 1894 I get anywhere from 250fps (Unique loads) to 400+fps (H110) more velocity between the rifle and pistols, same-same load.

Any of these powders:

Hodgdon Lil'Gun
Winchester 296
Hodgdon H110
Vihtavuori N110

...will get you into/past the mid 1,650s using a 265gr cast bullet / 20" barrel / ≤ 25,000 psi