My advice to people just getting into carry

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I disagree that those who carry should start with a small gun unless they are seasoned shooters who have not carried in the past for one reason or another. Small guns are not easy to shoot. Statistics tells us that most civilian gunfights happen within 10 yards. There are 1-3 attackers. Most of the time it is low light, not necessarily dark but low light like in a parking garage. When it is a shooting meaning only one person has a gun 1-3 shots are fired. When it is gunfight meaning more than one person is shoot the number of shots fired is the number of rounds in the mag. When you look at these factors a newer shooter with small gun is putting themselves at a huge disadvantage.
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I don't disagree with your analysis. A larger gun is certainly easier to shoot, holds more rounds and is generally more capable and reliable overall. There's no question about it.

HOWEVER, the OP was talking about getting started in carry and why picking a smaller gun can help a person get started carrying when they are having trouble making the decision.

While a larger gun is definitely more capable than a smaller gun, a smaller gun is a LOT more capable than no gun at all. Rather than putting the decision to start carrying off because of perceived difficulties, or even giving up because carrying a larger gun is too hard, starting small can provide the impetus and simplicity to get a person started carrying.

There's an old Russian saying: "The best is the enemy of good enough.". It's important for people contemplating carry to NOT get stalled trying for the best solution when they can have a solution that has been proven to be good enough in many real world instances. As more experienced shooters and carriers, we need to be careful not to get into the mode of giving new shooters and potential new carriers the impression that: "If you won't carry a gun like X, then you just might as well not carry at all!".

Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. Let's be sure we don't deny potential new carriers that big advantage by pushing so hard for them to carry something larger that they just give up.
 
As more experienced shooters and carriers, we need to be careful not to get into the mode of giving new shooters and potential new carriers the impression that: "If you won't carry a gun like X, then you just might as well not carry at all!".

Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. Let's be sure we don't deny potential new carriers that big advantage by pushing so hard for them to carry something larger that they just give up.
Well said John, I really like your comment.



I really think people need to get to the range. But for the experts, there are other opinions as well. IT IS ABOUT TRAINING NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT. Get to the range and start learning and you will find the real truth.


Many experts say you cannot hit a target at 25 yds with a pocket gun. Yea right.

 
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I really think people need to get to the range.
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No question about it.

I tend to think that people who carry regularly are at least slightly more likely to practice regularly so getting people carrying might actually get them to practice more. And it was practicing with my small carry gun that incentivized me to look into something slightly more shootable when I began to realize that I could carry something larger if I modified my carry method.
 
One can learn to decently shoot a small gun at 7 yards much easier - and faster - than adjusting to carrying a larger one day in and day out. The more you shoot, the easier it gets; unfortunately I can’t say that it was the same way with me trying to IWB a Glock...

LCP is a surprisingly accurate little gun, and I am sure so are most other ones in that niche. So shooting it well doesn’t require any special voodoo.
 
JohnKSa said:
No question about it.

I tend to think that people who carry regularly are at least slightly more likely to practice regularly so getting people carrying might actually get them to practice more. And it was practicing with my small carry gun that incentivized me to look into something slightly more shootable when I began to realize that I could carry something larger if I modified my carry method.
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For myself it was the opposite. Obviously shot larger frame guns by slowly move up the ladder in in skill set by shooting smaller guns. Went from large frame, down to compact, down to subcompact, down to pocket guns. Yes, the Pocket gun represented the most difficult to learn. But they also represented a "Challenge". Especially since I was terrible at shooting them.And I love to challenge myself. I had two choices, one, not carry one, or two, master the gun. Thus began the journey. I started shooting almost entirely the pocket guns at each range session. Over and over twice a week. Practiced drawing at home. It got to the point that I morphed into just loving these little guns and understanding that they have Much more potential than many experts give them credit for. For EDC they are a fantastic weapon. Easy to carry anywhere. Light weight, no bulk. So easy to make it part of your every day life. Even to the point of just having the gun in your pocket at home, cutting the grass, walking the dog.
And FAST TO DRAW AND HIT CENTER MASS. And they are just plain FUN to shoot. The more you shoot and train the more fun they are. Train with a Pocket gun, or snubbie and shoot them well, you can shoot almost any gun well.

Since this tread is about beginners then they have a choice. Get a Large frame gun and carry and move down. Or start off with a Pocket gun and stay with it. Prepare for a lot of training. The investment in time and ammo will pay off great rewards. JMO.

And remember. If some one tells you that something is difficult, or next to impossible, do not fold like a cheap lawn chair. Just prove them wrong, accept the challenge. Life is full of difficult things. Things can be made easy by simply getting out and doing it. Train, Train Train.

Challenge your self at each range session. Set goals.Invest in a timer.
 
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JohnKSa said:
I don't disagree with your analysis. A larger gun is certainly easier to shoot, holds more rounds and is generally more capable and reliable overall. There's no question about it.

HOWEVER, the OP was talking about getting started in carry and why picking a smaller gun can help a person get started carrying when they are having trouble making the decision.

While a larger gun is definitely more capable than a smaller gun, a smaller gun is a LOT more capable than no gun at all. Rather than putting the decision to start carrying off because of perceived difficulties, or even giving up because carrying a larger gun is too hard, starting small can provide the impetus and simplicity to get a person started carrying.

There's an old Russian saying: "The best is the enemy of good enough.". It's important for people contemplating carry to NOT get stalled trying for the best solution when they can have a solution that has been proven to be good enough in many real world instances. As more experienced shooters and carriers, we need to be careful not to get into the mode of giving new shooters and potential new carriers the impression that: "If you won't carry a gun like X, then you just might as well not carry at all!".

Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. Let's be sure we don't deny potential new carriers that big advantage by pushing so hard for them to carry something larger that they just give up.
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I understood what the OP was saying but I truly believe that a person who is new to concealed carry and is doing it with pocket gun has a false sense of security because unless they have trained a lot they will not be effective with that gun. @Jeb Stuart Showing videos of Dave Spaulding shooting lights out with a pocket gun adds to that false sense of security because it took thousands upon thousands of hours to develop the skills he displays in the video in this thread. It didn't come from dropping a J frame in his pocket everyday because it was comfortable and easy. Many professional trainers and shooters cannot hit target at 25 yards effectively under stress with a pocket gun. Some can. All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles. I am not sure how your example of one disprove the statement.

I completely disagree with the blanket statement : Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. I am not in the any gun is better than no gun camp in all scenarios. If you cannot effectively deploy the gun with a certain degree of proficiency there are many scenarios where the presence of the gun will decrease your chances of surviving an armed encounter. There are just too many factors to consider and IMHO they go up with a new shooter and a small pocket style gun. Sometimes those of us who love guns see them as the universal tool to solve all problems. Its like when your only tool is a hammer you view every problem in the world as a nail. 100% I prefer to have a gun with me at all times but that does not mean the gun will be the tool to save me in all situations. It also does not mean that incorrectly or ineffectively deploying that weapon can't escalate a situation and increase the lethality of an encounter.

Please don't get me wrong I am not telling anyone what they have to do I am simply stating the conclusions that my experience and training has brought me to. You and the OP are certainly allowed to draw different conclusions. What I try to be is realistic. I advise people that carrying a gun is a decision that is not to be taken lightly. It is a commitment. It requires a mindset change and discipline. You need to develop situational awareness and you need to practice. It should not be and cannot be as simple as dropping a tiny 380 into your pocket everyday.

JohnKSa said:
No question about it.

I tend to think that people who carry regularly are at least slightly more likely to practice regularly so getting people carrying might actually get them to practice more. And it was practicing with my small carry gun that incentivized me to look into something slightly more shootable when I began to realize that I could carry something larger if I modified my carry method.
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When people hang out on gun forums and hang around people who are gun centric it tends to skew the view of the population in general. I know lots of people who carry everyday but are not gun people. Many don't even shoot once a month. Some shoot only a few times a year. Carrying a gun everyday does not seem to be an indicator that people practice. What I have observed is that people who practice a lot almost always carry everyday. When we hang around gun forums all the time and talk to people dedicate to the sport of guns and their defensive use we tend to start to think all gun owners are like us when in reality most gun owners in this country will only shoot a few times this year.

I have nothing against small carry guns. I carry a LCP only about 10% of the time. It is the throw it in my pocket gun or deep conceal because clothing or the situation does not allow me to carry something larger but I understand its limitations. I work to be reasonably proficient with it at the distances I would deploy it. For me that is 10 yards or less and I know I will not be as proficient as I would be with say a BHP or Glock 19. I have considered, calculated and planned for the criteria under which that gun would be an effective gun for me. I do not take into account what Dave Spaulding can do with it because that it irrelevant to me. I understand and accept the limitations of the platform and the shooter. Are new shooters who are new to concealed carry doing the same? IMHO they should be and when you are recommending that they carry a small gun they need to understand the reality of that situation.

PS as to the OP and the comments about caliber I would not carry anything smaller than 380 auto or 38 Spl for self defense.
 
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They say "love the one your are with". I do not care what another person chooses go carry. If that person wants to carry a Snubbie, Pocket gun, large frame 1911, shotgun or AR. The most important thing is to carry every single day, no matter where you go. You cannot pick the place the beast will raise his head. If you cannot carry every where, then you have a problem. And regardless if you choose a pocket gun, etc or a shotgun. Train often, train diligently. No need for size wars, caliber wars. Just train and carry all the time.
On the internet folks to get into size, caliber and on and on. Size of any gun makes no difference if you cannot use it and use it fast. If you cannot draw and shoot under 3sec, then you can consider yourself a dead man walking. The Beast will most like hold all the cards of advantage. Your goal IMO is too be able to beat the Beast. And a tie is most likely just as good as dead.

TRAIN AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!
 
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WVsig said:
I understood what the OP was saying but I truly believe that a person who is new to concealed carry and is doing it with pocket gun has a false sense of security because unless they have trained a lot they will not be effective with that gun
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Sure, there’s no doubt about it (although even someone with little training would be hard pressed to miss a man sized target at 7-10 feet, which is where most self defense encounters tend to happen).

Still, a newbie would have to learn how to shoot any SD gun they get, and in my opinion learning to shoot an LCP with acceptable accuracy at 10-15 ft is not much harder than, say, a Glock. After 4-6 weeks of regular training, pretty much anyone should be proficient enough to hit the center of mass area in a target. We are not talking competition level bullseye shooting.

On the other hand, if someone is uncomfortable carrying a larger gun, they typically won’t get better with time, just the opposite - they will likely develop a subconscious dislike of carrying and find excuses for leaving their self defense weapon at home.

Unless they are able to quickly adjust to a larger gun, I believe a newbie is going to be far better off getting a small, easy to conceal and carry gun, get into the habit of carrying it religiously, and learn to shoot it well. They can progress to a larger caliber later as they get more experienced and more confident, in the meantime they are protected and learning every day.
 
The great thing about the internet -- and also the worst thing about the internet -- is that on any issue, you can find support for whatever side of the issue you happen to fall on. One can believe almost anything, and dredge up any number of YouTube videos or strongly-worded anecdotes from "experts" of dubious credibility to validate one's position.

However, much of what is said in the internet's gun world comes from those who've never been in an armed encounter nor are required to carry a firearm or train with it as a condition of their employment. Below quotes indicates that we have at least one member who gets it. Giving people advice on what size handgun they should carry, or what particular mode of carry they should employ, is really stepping out on that slippery ledge. In what other arena do so many anonymous net-surfers presume to tell others how they should defend themselves should they face a critical life or death armed encounter? And why would we expect anyone to take all this free anonymous advice?

WVsig said:
completely disagree with the blanket statement : Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. I am not in the any gun is better than no gun camp in all scenarios. If you cannot effectively deploy the gun with a certain degree of proficiency there are many scenarios where the presence of the gun will decrease your chances of surviving an armed encounter.
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This I agree with.
WVsig said:
When people hang out on gun forums and hang around people who are gun centric it tends to skew the view of the population in general. I know lots of people who carry everyday but are not gun people. Many don't even shoot once a month. Some shoot only a few times a year. Carrying a gun everyday does not seem to be an indicator that people practice. What I have observed is that people who practice a lot almost always carry everyday. When we hang around gun forums all the time and talk to people dedicate to the sport of guns and their defensive use we tend to start to think all gun owners are like us when in reality most gun owners in this country will only shoot a few times this year.
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This also.
 
WVsig said:
I understood what the OP was saying but I truly believe that a person who is new to concealed carry and is doing it with pocket gun has a false sense of security because unless they have trained a lot they will not be effective with that gun. @Jeb Stuart Showing videos of Dave Spaulding shooting lights out with a pocket gun adds to that false sense of security because it took thousands upon thousands of hours to develop the skills he displays in the video in this thread. It didn't come from dropping a J frame in his pocket everyday because it was comfortable and easy. Many professional trainers and shooters cannot hit target at 25 yards effectively under stress with a pocket gun. Some can. All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles. I am not sure how your example of one disprove the statement.

I completely disagree with the blanket statement : Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun. I am not in the any gun is better than no gun camp in all scenarios. If you cannot effectively deploy the gun with a certain degree of proficiency there are many scenarios where the presence of the gun will decrease your chances of surviving an armed encounter. There are just too many factors to consider and IMHO they go up with a new shooter and a small pocket style gun. Sometimes those of us who love guns see them as the universal tool to solve all problems. Its like when your only tool is a hammer you view every problem in the world as a nail. 100% I prefer to have a gun with me at all times but that does not mean the gun will be the tool to save me in all situations. It also does not mean that incorrectly or ineffectively deploying that weapon can't escalate a situation and increase the lethality of an encounter.

Please don't get me wrong I am not telling anyone what they have to do I am simply stating the conclusions that my experience and training has brought me to. You and the OP are certainly allowed to draw different conclusions. What I try to be is realistic. I advise people that carrying a gun is a decision that is not to be taken lightly. It is a commitment. It requires a mindset change and discipline. You need to develop situational awareness and you need to practice. It should not be and cannot be as simple as dropping a tiny 380 into your pocket everyday.



When people hang out on gun forums and hang around people who are gun centric it tends to skew the view of the population in general. I know lots of people who carry everyday but are not gun people. Many don't even shoot once a month. Some shoot only a few times a year. Carrying a gun everyday does not seem to be an indicator that people practice. What I have observed is that people who practice a lot almost always carry everyday. When we hang around gun forums all the time and talk to people dedicate to the sport of guns and their defensive use we tend to start to think all gun owners are like us when in reality most gun owners in this country will only shoot a few times this year.

I have nothing against small carry guns. I carry a LCP only about 10% of the time. It is the throw it in my pocket gun or deep conceal because clothing or the situation does not allow me to carry something larger but I understand its limitations. I work to be reasonably proficient with it at the distances I would deploy it. For me that is 10 yards or less and I know I will not be as proficient as I would be with say a BHP or Glock 19. I have considered, calculated and planned for the criteria under which that gun would be an effective gun for me. I do not take into account what Dave Spaulding can do with it because that it irrelevant to me. I understand and accept the limitations of the platform and the shooter. Are new shooters who are new to concealed carry doing the same? IMHO they should be and when you are recommending that they carry a small gun they need to understand the reality of that situation.

PS as to the OP and the comments about caliber I would not carry anything smaller than 380 auto or 38 Spl for self defense.
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But do you really understand the limitations? Is it possible that the Small Pocket guns iare one of the most effective weapons designed for EDC? Because I find the Pocket gun the Most underestimated firearm made. Again, I made it clear that a lot of practice needs to be done on a regular. And I fully understand that most will not. But what about the person willing to put in the time? For that person, he will have a magnificent defense weapon.

It conceals better than any other weapon
It is small and it is very fast
So easy to walk into a dangerous place and have your hand in your pocket and on the weapon for Extremely fast draw.
It will for most people be carried when others are not.
Just like you would your wallet?
Easy to carry two pocket guns. Think of the advantage in that. I have done this many times. And not only two fast guns, but the weight is easily distributed across the body. I have practiced enough to know that I can draw the other gun faster than I can put in a new magazine. I can carry in a different location for fast draw if I go down. I do not have to transition from large gun to small gun. I am already proficient with the small gun.
Easy to maneuver and agile like many small things. Cars, Surf boards, and on and on.
Mine are all double action. I have trained well with double action and feel more secure knowing this.

There are so people that are very good with a small knife. And they can be very dangerous. They could slit your throat faster than you can blink.
And a person well trained with a pocket gun can defend himself quite well. It is a magnificent weapon in the right hands. I honestly do not think the majority of the experienced shooters actually understand how a small gun is such a effective weapon and maybe even more so in most common attacks. I personally can draw and shoot much faster and more effectively with a Pocket gun than I can with a large frame gun.

The new Shooter needs to decide how much he wants to put into training and what he will be carrying each and every day. A Pocket gun is fantastic, lethal weapon in the right hands. (Again only in the right hands)

The now have classes where they train for defense tactics with pocket guns. Maybe it would be wise to understand the abilities of these small guns rather than look for ways to put them down. You carry a Glock 19 90% of the time and a LCP 10%. I carry a pocket gun 100% of the time. And I train every single time I go to the range with one. Just a habit. If I go to shoot my shotguns, I also take the time to shoot my Pocket guns take my large frame gun, I also shoot the pocket gun etc.. And I train with the smallest 22.cals I can find. I have total confidence with a pocket gun.

Some say there is a ART to wielding a Knife in defense. I say there is a ART in using a pocketgun.

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I completely disagree with the blanket statement : Clearly, real world results demonstrate that having a gun (any gun) is a huge improvement over no gun.
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There are people every day who defend themselves with a firearm and never fire a shot. Clearly those are real world results that demonstrate that having a gun, even if you can't shoot it effectively, even if it's not a mainstream self-defense caliber, even if it's NOT LOADED, is a huge improvement over no gun at all. I'm not advocating carrying unloaded guns, but real world results demonstrate that something like 90% of successful self-defense gun uses don't even involve the attacker being injured seriously. It's impossible to argue that having a gun is not an improvement over not having one.

I mean it's possible to argue that point--but only by ignoring logic and real-world results.

What you're saying amounts to claiming that even though only about 1 in 10 SUCCESSFUL self-defense gun uses involves seriously wounding the attacker and most end without the gun being fired, we should dissuade people from carrying small guns that might save their lives 9 out of 10 times.

That's not the kind of logic that works for me.

Of course a gun isn't the right tool for every self-defense encounter. And, of course, there are times when deploying a gun can increase the chances of being injured or killed (although statistically speaking, resisting with a gun offers the BEST chance of remaining uninjured--even better than compliance). But pointing out those true statements which relate to rare outcomes when it comes to self-defense gun uses doesn't change the big picture--it certainly doesn't provide a good reason to ignore the vast majority of self-defense gun uses.

The fact is that we KNOW that having a gun is better than not having one--purely from a statistical standpoint. People who resist violence with a gun have a better chance of surviving a violent encounter uninjured. Of course, having a gun AND being proficient with it is even better yet. But we need to be sure that we're not letting the best be the enemy of good enough.

To be clear, I'm not advocating that people carry and not practice. I'm also not saying that small guns are as good as full-sized ones. I'm just pointing out that even tiny guns in "ineffective" calibers can be lifesavers and therefore it's not a good idea to give people the idea that they need to carry at least 'this size gun' in 'at least this caliber' or just forget about it.
Carrying a gun everyday does not seem to be an indicator that people practice.
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I didn't say that it was an indicator/reliable predictor of practice. What I said was pretty clear: "I tend to think that people who carry regularly are at least slightly more likely to practice regularly so getting people carrying might actually get them to practice more."

Do people who carry automatically practice? No.
Will getting people to carry insure that they practice? No.
Are people who carry "at least slightly more likely to practice regularly"? I think that's a safe statement.
I understood what the OP was saying but I truly believe that a person who is new to concealed carry and is doing it with pocket gun has a false sense of security because unless they have trained a lot they will not be effective with that gun.
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1. If you look at real-world incident reports, for the most part people are effective with pocket guns. Small guns are not ideal and they can be difficult to shoot, but if you look at the reports, there just aren't very many reports of people getting killed because they chose to carry a pocket gun.

2. Pocket guns are more capable than pointing your finger and saying: "Bang!". The OP is talking about getting someone into carrying when they are having trouble making the decision due to complications with and worries about carry. The decision being discussed is not between carrying a full-sized service pistol and a pocket pistol, it's between not carrying at all and carrying a small gun.

If you want to tell people who ask you that they need to carry a full-sized gun (or make sure that it's at least X caliber) and get training and be sure they meet your requirements for situational awareness, or just forget about the whole deal, that's your prerogative. I believe that is a terrible approach to getting people to carry--in fact, I believe that it's a good way to convince someone who's thinking about carrying that it's too hard for them so that they just give up.

This boils down to one simple principle. No matter how experienced and knowledgeable you are, what you feel is right for you isn't automatically right for everybody.
 
paulsj said:
I recommend the smallest in suitable for defense caliber. The choice boils down to 9x17, 9x19 or .38 special. I'm moving to .38 to shed weight and to take advantage of Federal HST .38 Micro load.
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Paul,
After looking through several reloading manuals I can find no 9x17. Do you mean the 9x18 Makarov?
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Lol, advice for the "Majority" Get Mace.
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It's worth carrying pepper spray as a less-than-deadly defense against attacks that justify self defense but not with deadly force.

donandmax said:
Whenever you pull that trigger (even justified) your gonna be poor for the rest of your life !!!
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That's what self defense "insurance" is designed to prevent. Just pick a plan that is appropriate for you. Be aware that plans vary in quality and price doesn't necessarily correlate with performance.
 
Wanderling said:
Get the smallest gun that you absolutely are comfortable carrying, in all circumstances and clothing. For me it was an LCP in .380, for someone else it may be a Shield or a .32 or even a .22. Doesn’t matter. It’s still a whole lot better than nothing.

The idea is to carry it daily and carry it everywhere it’s legally possible, until it becomes your second nature and you no longer feel like the entire world is staring at you.

Just my two cents...
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I've found the exact opposite, especially when it comes to training. Those who choose the smaller pocket pistols do very little training and shooting. I've gone so far as to say that such pocket pistols are for more experienced shooters. I've found the more people shoot, the more likely they will carry. If they have a handgun that is comfortable to shoot, they will find a way to carry it more often or shoot enough to understand the capabilities and limitations of a pocket gun. We have dozens of choices of handguns that fit that bill, but by and large, a handgun with a good grip that is comfortable for practicing reinforces all the basics necessary to confidently carry concealed. Many love the concealability of the LCP-sized handguns, but very, very few enjoy shooting them or doing any serious training with them. Sure, most of us agree having any gun on you is better than no gun, but most of us also realize the implied task is to be proficient and train with what you carry...many novice gun-owners don't realize the importance or invest in training, be it just trigger time and drills or actual professional training. Additionally, many choose pocket guns because they don't understand the importance of a quality holster and gun belt as part of the overall CCW-system.

ROCK6
 
Jeb Stuart said:
TRAIN AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!
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Plinking at the range =/= training.

Wanderling said:
learning to shoot an LCP with acceptable accuracy at 10-15 ft is not much harder than, say, a Glock.
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That's like saying you'll save more gas driving a 2018 Toyota Prius than say a Ford right?

Are you saying that it's as easy to shoot an LCP accurately as a Glock 17? Because if you are I'm going to guess you've never shot an LCP
 
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Trunk Monkey said:
Plinking at the range =/= training.



That's like saying you'll save more gas driving a 2018 Toyota Prius than say a Ford right?

Are you saying that it's as easy to shoot an LCP accurately as a Glock 17? Because if you are I'm going to guess you've never shot an LCP
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Actually Plinking is a form of training. I guessing you never heard of point and shoot skills. Love to take my LCR22 and plink the heck out of it. Fast action to small plinking targets.

And a far as trying to compare the Glock to the LCP, I am wondering if you actually understood the Point made from Wanderling. I think you missed the target.

Not to speak for Wonderling, but I have shot the LCP, probably more so than yourself. And yes, at close range it can be extremely accurate and fast. I get the feeling you have not shot one very much.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Plinking at the range =/= training.



That's like saying you'll save more gas driving a 2018 Toyota Prius than say a Ford right?

Are you saying that it's as easy to shoot an LCP accurately as a Glock 17?
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It’s as easy as with Glock 17 to hit the center of mass at 15 ft after a little training, yes. Absolutely. I am not talking about repeatedly hitting the bullseye after careful aiming.

Because if you are I'm going to guess you've never shot an LCP
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Funny that you should say that, as I did it just yesterday. This was not done with careful aiming but a high speed mag dump after pulling the gun out of a pocket holster. 15 ft, 7+1 rounds.

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I did the same kind of exercise with G26 and got similar results, except that with a Glock the trigger resets way earlier and the rapid fire drill is more rapid.

Now there’s absolutely no way I would be able to get these results without plinking. I put over 200 rounds through LCP since getting it, carefully aiming until I was sure I knew the gun well enough.

At 50 ft, sure, I wouldn’t know what I was shooting at, but that’s not what LCP is intended for.
 
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Wanderling said:
It’s as easy as with Glock 17 to hit the center of mass at 15 ft after a little training, yes. Absolutely. I am not talking about repeatedly hitting the bullseye after careful aiming.



Funny that you should say that, as I did this just yesterday. This was not done with careful aiming but a high speed mag dump after pulling the gun out of a pocket holster. 15 ft, 7+1 rounds.

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I did the same kind of exercise with G26 and got similar results, except that with a Glock the trigger resets way earlier and the rapid fire drill is more rapid.

Now there’s absolutely no way I would be able to get these results without plinking. I put over 200 rounds through LCP since getting it, carefully aiming until I was sure I knew the gun well enough.

At 50 ft, sure, I wouldn’t know what I was shooting at, but that’s not what LCP is intended for.
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See that hole to the left of the target's head? That one hit a pregnant woman a block and a half away, her family is about to hire a personal injury lawyer
 
I wouldn't recommend a pocket pistol to a novice shooter. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than an M&P Shield.

I would recommend that, if possible, they go to a range that rents guns and try several and see what works for them. Assuming it was someone I actually knew instead of someone asking on THR I'd take them myself.

I wouldn't tell them not to buy a Llama or a Taurus (the very first gun my wife ever bought was a .380 SAO Llama (the EPITOME of guns I wouldn't recommend to a new shooter).

I would (and did) tell her that company had a history of producing poor quality guns and let her make her own decision.

I would recommend an actual basic handgun self defense class (if they have a permit they've been through basic handgun safety).

I would go with them to pick out a holster from a reputable manufacturer.

I would recommend a purpose designed gun belt.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
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See that hole to the left of the target's head? That one hit a pregnant woman a block and a half away, her family is about to hire a personal injury lawyer
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LOL... so you are telling me that a mag dump would produce significantly better results with a G26 and you won’t have any strays dumping 11 rounds in under 4 seconds? Because then you are better than most of us.

The point here is, at 15 ft I can shoot an LCP just as well as any Glock, but with careful aiming, I can hit far closer to the dead center of a bullseye with a Glock.

Besides, in a real life situation with adrenaline pumping and the attacker moving around (only an idiot would just stay there like a stationary target), perhaps you should not pull the gun if there’s even a slightest chance of missing ? Unless you have laser eyes and robotic precision.
 
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Wanderling said:
LOL... so you are telling me that a mag dump would produce significantly better results with a G26 and you won’t have any strays dumping 11 rounds in under 4 seconds? Because then you are better than most of us.

The point here is, at 15 ft I can shoot an LCP just as well as any Glock, but with careful aiming, I can hit far closer to the dead center of a bullseye with a Glock.
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What I'm telling you is that you're accountable for every round you send down range.


20170413-121044.jpg

Glock 19, drawing from concealment at 15 yards. Everything outside the duct tape was from whoever used that target stand before me.

I volunteered on my church security team for 5 years. I was lucky enough to be able to participate in actual, professional training at the church's expense every quarter. Security team members qualified with their handguns at every class.

It was a 30 round qualification, all rounds were fired from concealment on a timer at retention distance, 1,3,5 and 7 yards using an Omaha Q target. Passing was 26 rounds or better in a 4X8 square. The church knew there was a lawsuit attached to every round too.

My point is that actual training , where someone else is critiquing you and helping you improve your performance and someone else is deciding what constitutes a passing score is not the same as standing on a range plinking (even fast plinking) at a target.
 
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Wanderling said:
It’s as easy as with Glock 17 to hit the center of mass at 15 ft after a little training, yes. Absolutely. I am not talking about repeatedly hitting the bullseye after careful aiming.



Funny that you should say that, as I did it just yesterday. This was not done with careful aiming but a high speed mag dump after pulling the gun out of a pocket holster. 15 ft, 7+1 rounds.

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I did the same kind of exercise with G26 and got similar results, except that with a Glock the trigger resets way earlier and the rapid fire drill is more rapid.

Now there’s absolutely no way I would be able to get these results without plinking. I put over 200 rounds through LCP since getting it, carefully aiming until I was sure I knew the gun well enough.

At 50 ft, sure, I wouldn’t know what I was shooting at, but that’s not what LCP is intended for.
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Wanderling said:
LOL... so you are telling me that a mag dump would produce significantly better results with a G26 and you won’t have any strays dumping 11 rounds in under 4 seconds? Because then you are better than most of us.

The point here is, at 15 ft I can shoot an LCP just as well as any Glock, but with careful aiming, I can hit far closer to the dead center of a bullseye with a Glock.

Besides, in a real life situation with adrenaline pumping and the attacker moving around (only an idiot would just stay there like a stationary target), perhaps you should not pull the gun if there’s even a slightest chance of missing ? Unless you have laser eyes and robotic precision.
Click to expand...

Been a while since I've shot my 26, but yes. I would be better than that.

That may be acceptable at 5 yards to you, but it certainly is not for me.
 
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