I'm working on a 38 special, Berry's plated 125 gr load with Bullseye powder and CCI 500 primer with a taper crimp. I've searched alot and I can't find any info for a safe recommended bottom load, lot's of info for the top or heavier weight bullets. I could guess based off the 110 jacketed but would rather not. Any help would be appreciated from the more experienced than I am.
Safe bottom load ?
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http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=26
Alliant data for the 125 gr Gold Dot. Alliant uses MAX load so reduce your load by 10% Your OAL may be a little different if your bullet is a round nose.
Yes you can use jacketed data for plated at the low to mid levels.
No you cant guess using a lighter weight bullet! You can use data for the next HIGHEST weight. But in this case, no need to "guess"
Alliant data for the 125 gr Gold Dot. Alliant uses MAX load so reduce your load by 10% Your OAL may be a little different if your bullet is a round nose.
Yes you can use jacketed data for plated at the low to mid levels.
No you cant guess using a lighter weight bullet! You can use data for the next HIGHEST weight. But in this case, no need to "guess"
fxvr5
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Lyman 50th edition data (pages 412-415) for 38 special with Bullseye powder;
125 JHP Hornady, OAL = 1.470
Start load 3.2 gr at 568 fps.
max load 4.4 gr at 860 fps
120 grain cast lead OAL 1.450
start load 2.8 gr at 690 fps
max load 4.6 gr at 1001 fps
125 JHP Hornady, OAL = 1.470
Start load 3.2 gr at 568 fps.
max load 4.4 gr at 860 fps
120 grain cast lead OAL 1.450
start load 2.8 gr at 690 fps
max load 4.6 gr at 1001 fps
My Lyman # 48 has 3.2 grains of Bullseye has the starting charge for a 125 grain JHP and 2.8 grains for 120 grain lead RN. 2.8 grains seems too light for a plated bullet but I'd be willing to bet the 3.2 grains would work just fine. The biggest concern is the bullet making it out the barrel. Just verify there's a new hole in your target before firing the next shot.
Thanks reddog81. My wife wants to learn to shoot, I'm happy as she's never showed interest before. Gonna start her on the 22 lr and want a nice safe soft shooting load to move her up to the 2" 38. I'm making some warmer 38 loads for her to shoot in my 5" GP100 before she shoots the snubbie, I just want to be careful working on the low end and want her to have fun with it.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Just to be clear, it's not 10% reduction for the lighter bullet. Alliant lists only the max charges, you reduce that charge by 10% to find the starting charge weight for the corresponding bullet weight, not a different bullet weight.
Thanks ArchangelCD, My Speer #14 manual says 4.5 gr Bullseye, max for 125 gr GDHP and minimum column says DNR, (do not reduce), then I go to my Hornady manual and it shows a start load of 4.5 gr Bullseye to a max of 5.0 gr under a 125 gr XTP and no info in either one for lead less than 140 gr, so while researching I would see loads kinda like what Lxvr5 posted, so I was sure I could go down some, just wasn't sure how much. From what I've learned here I'm thinking of starting at 4.0 and working up and if that works I might try going down a little more, maybe 3.8, will see.
Blue68f100
Member
You can workup a reduced power loads. Start at the min and start stepping down at 0.1gr steps. Best to use a crony, for you want to keep your velocities above 600-650 fps to keep from sticking a bullet. You also need to test with powder forward, back and level. You also want to test with weak, loose grip. All these come into play.
You can go pretty low use lead, vs plated or jacketed.
You can go pretty low use lead, vs plated or jacketed.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The Speer GDHP bullet is not the same as your bullet.
My Lyman #50 which I trust lists a 125gr jhp bullet with Bullseye.
3.2gr start to 4.4 max with 5.0gr +P
I would go with that data.
My Lyman #50 which I trust lists a 125gr jhp bullet with Bullseye.
3.2gr start to 4.4 max with 5.0gr +P
I would go with that data.
stillquietvoice
Contributing Member
ReloaderFred
Member
Because he wants to introduce a brand new shooter to the joy of shooting, and he doesn't want to scare her away with too much noise and recoil. And he's not downloading 9x19 caliber, he's downloading .38 Special, which will be fired in a revolver.
To the OP, some manuals have "Cowboy Loads", which are for cast bullets. You can even download from those, if you're careful.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Thanks everyone for all the help and information. Didn't want to post a redundant thread, but just couldn't find what I was looking for to be sure I was making a safe load. Now I'm gonna have to research chronographs and spend more money, but I'll just blame it on you all when she asks what I need a chronograph for. Appreciate the help.
The bullet that Lyman #49 (is 50 different) is not the same as the OPs bullet either. They use a Hornady XTP.
A Speer bullet is a "bonded" bullet with a encased bottom
One reason I don't give "data" on the web is it varies all over the place
Speer (Alliant)gives their data for the 125 with BE at max of 4.5gr and do not reduce
Hornady for their 125XTP gives 4.5 to 5.3 and that max is a +P load
Lyman #49 gives 3.2 to 4.4 for the Hornady XTP
So there is a WIDE range of data out there
A Berrys Plated bullet is for similar to a "bonded" Gold Dot (encased bottom)than a FMJ Even though the GD is a better,"jacket"
If the OP wants a soft "felt" recoil load than a 158 grain bullet (lead) would be better
YMMV
ReloaderFred
Member
For beginning shooters, I load a 105 gr. cast bullet that I cast myself. It's loaded over Bullseye, but I don't post data in open forums.
My load works great in small revolvers to tame recoil for familiarization with center fire handguns, and doesn't discourage new shooters, who are nervous anyway. I've been teaching Handgun Safety Classes for new shooters for over 22 years now, and this load has helped many, many first time shooters overcome their fears, and actually enjoy shooting handguns.
Hope this helps.
Fred
PS: If the OP wants my load data, he can PM me and I'll provide it.
My load works great in small revolvers to tame recoil for familiarization with center fire handguns, and doesn't discourage new shooters, who are nervous anyway. I've been teaching Handgun Safety Classes for new shooters for over 22 years now, and this load has helped many, many first time shooters overcome their fears, and actually enjoy shooting handguns.
Hope this helps.
Fred
PS: If the OP wants my load data, he can PM me and I'll provide it.
vaalpens
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I have loaded a few of the 125gr Berry's FP plated bullets using Bullseye. These loads had no issues, so you can probably go lower. Lyman 50th lists a 125gr JHP load starting at 3.2gr of Bullseye.
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.0gr, WSP
Average: 715
ES: 56
SD: 21.4
Force: 142
PF: 89
Velocities: 684, 706, 723, 725, 740
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.61"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.2gr, WSP
Average: 719
ES: 114
SD: 45.1
Force: 143
PF: 89
Velocities: 658, 698, 718, 772, 753
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.85"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.4gr, WSP
Average: 795
ES: 42
SD: 16.1
Force: 175
PF: 99
Velocities: 770, 794, 793, 812, 806
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.71"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.0gr, WSP
Average: 715
ES: 56
SD: 21.4
Force: 142
PF: 89
Velocities: 684, 706, 723, 725, 740
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.61"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.2gr, WSP
Average: 719
ES: 114
SD: 45.1
Force: 143
PF: 89
Velocities: 658, 698, 718, 772, 753
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.85"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
38spl, SP101, 3"
Case: PMC
COL: 1.423"
Berrys, 125gr, FP, Bullseye, 4.4gr, WSP
Average: 795
ES: 42
SD: 16.1
Force: 175
PF: 99
Velocities: 770, 794, 793, 812, 806
Grouping @ 7yd: 0.71"
Test Date: 10/21/2018
Crunchy Frog
Member
In cowboy Action Shooting the .38 Special is very popular and (cast, we can’t use plated or jacketed) bullets in the 125 grain weight are very common. Fast burning pistol powders like Bullseye are also common.
Hodgdon publishes cowboy load data but not for Alliant powders. Just for reference purposes you might look at published loads using similar powders.
There is a point of diminishing returns in trying to make light loads. I’m a by-the-book loader when it comes to published minimums and maximums. Going too light and you not only risk a squib but some powders give inconsistent performance.
Hodgdon publishes cowboy load data but not for Alliant powders. Just for reference purposes you might look at published loads using similar powders.
There is a point of diminishing returns in trying to make light loads. I’m a by-the-book loader when it comes to published minimums and maximums. Going too light and you not only risk a squib but some powders give inconsistent performance.
Thanks ReloaderFred, appreciate the offer, info and effort. I don't cast, but if I were to find some 105s in the future I might get back to you, thanks again.
These loads are right in the area that I'm going to work with vaalpens, 4.0 Bullseye I feel is a good start and I'll see if it seems comfortable enough for the wife and adjust from there.
I may have to buy a Lyman manual mdi. I have Speer, Hornady and Nosler, mostly reloaded rifle rounds and 41mag, not much light lead load info, 140gr and up.
Riomouse911
Member
Eggleston munitions offers a 98 gr coated bullet for the .380 than can be bought sized .356, .357 and .358... and they’re offered in five or six colors as well.
The .358 ones over 3.0 Bullseye with a roll crimp shot like a .22 WMR without the CRAK! and fireball the WMR produces out of smaller guns. Titegroup and Red Dot will also work in lower powered loads of similar horsepower,
Stay safe!
The .358 ones over 3.0 Bullseye with a roll crimp shot like a .22 WMR without the CRAK! and fireball the WMR produces out of smaller guns. Titegroup and Red Dot will also work in lower powered loads of similar horsepower,
Stay safe!
Or the OP can just follow Berrys advice under FAQ
https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ5
Question: Do you have load data available? COL or OAL?
Please consult load data books or your powder manufacturers' website for load information. You can use any published data as long as it is the same weight (FMJ, Lead, Plated, etc.)
-Standard Plate Bullets max velocity- 1,250 fps.
-Thick Plate Bullets (TP) max velocity- 1,500 fps.
For SAAMI MAX COL specs or OAL of the bullet please click HERE.
We recommend a light crimp on the bullet, just enough to put pressure against the bullet without denting or deforming the plating. If you were to pull the bullet out of a case with the proper crimp you would find no more than a scratch on the surface of the plating. If you are denting or deforming the bullet, your accuracy will suffer and the bullet may start to tumble before it hits the target.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ5
Question: Do you have load data available? COL or OAL?
Please consult load data books or your powder manufacturers' website for load information. You can use any published data as long as it is the same weight (FMJ, Lead, Plated, etc.)
-Standard Plate Bullets max velocity- 1,250 fps.
-Thick Plate Bullets (TP) max velocity- 1,500 fps.
For SAAMI MAX COL specs or OAL of the bullet please click HERE.
We recommend a light crimp on the bullet, just enough to put pressure against the bullet without denting or deforming the plating. If you were to pull the bullet out of a case with the proper crimp you would find no more than a scratch on the surface of the plating. If you are denting or deforming the bullet, your accuracy will suffer and the bullet may start to tumble before it hits the target.
Thanks for the info Riomouse911
Yes I do Rule3. I'm using the 125gr Berry's FP @ 1.427 COAL with a taper crimp as you've described above loaded with 5.1 to 5.7 grs of Unique. I'm going to use these same dimensions with Bullseye and start my loads @ 4.0 up to 4.7 for now. Thanks Rule3, more info is always better.
Yes I do Rule3. I'm using the 125gr Berry's FP @ 1.427 COAL with a taper crimp as you've described above loaded with 5.1 to 5.7 grs of Unique. I'm going to use these same dimensions with Bullseye and start my loads @ 4.0 up to 4.7 for now. Thanks Rule3, more info is always better.
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