Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine

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I think I need an intervention. :) In the past month I picked up an India Pattern Brown Bess from IMA and today I got this used Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine at Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop. According to Greg Dixon, the previous owner brought in two of them since he was getting out of reenacting. At $750 I couldn't resist.

The bore is in good shape with a little minor rust and there was a bit of rust on the outside but that cleaned up easily with a bit of WD40 and steel wool.

The previous owner added sling swivels. The upper swivel is attached only to the stock, not to a lug attached to the barrel, and is positioned that it could foul the rammer. I may have a lug welded to the barrel a bit closer to the muzzle so that the swivel rests on the upper ramrod pipe when the gun is vertical.

I'm looking forward to making some smoke with it.

bess-carbine.jpg

lock.jpg

nose-cap-swivel.jpg

sideplate.jpg

wrist.jpg
 
I may have a lug welded to the barrel a bit closer to the muzzle so that the swivel rests on the upper ramrod pipe when the gun is vertical.
Then you would end up with a hole in the stock where the swivel screw was. Even if you fill it with a wooden plug, it would be obvious.

A weak point in these Pedersoli reproductions is the tip of the ramrod, which is silver soldered on. (You can see the join line clearly in your pictures.) This can easily break off. One-piece aftermarket ramrods are available.
 
I don't know much about any of the Brown Bess guns.
But here's my impressions and questions.

1. The carving around the tang, was that done by the owner and supposed to be ornamental?
Do you find it to be in good taste? Does the carving represent anything?

2. The inlayed brass on the wrist looks pretty, is that stock from the factory or was it added?

3. The brass shield surrounding the pan, is that stock on this model, common or a customization by the previous owner?

4. I saw some photos posted on MLF of weld spot marks left inside of the bore of a Chiappa musket opposite from where the bayonet lug
was welded on to the outside of the barrel, which the heat not only left a dark spot, but which also clearly showed a hairline fracture develop.
And that was the result of a factory weld where one would think that they knew enough about what they were doing to not cause any metal fatigue.
Sort of makes me wonder if it's worth the risk of causing damage by adding a sling swivel lug onto the barrel.

Do you really need a sling when Pedersoli didn't intend to add one of their own?

Can you reinforce the wood where the sling is already attached with a metal bushing of some sort?

5. How old do you think the gun is? Overall the wood and metal work looks very nice besides looking rough around the tang.
And it seems to be a desirable model for a reasonable price.
 
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1. The carving around the tang is factory and authentic. The first owner may have carved the slight depression right behind the tang.

2. I don't know if the brass inlay on the wrist is factory. Honestly, if it was they didn't do the greatest inletting job. However, original Besses had one. Regimental markings were engraved on it.

3. The flash guard on the pan was put there by the first owner. They are used by a lot of reenactors to protect guy to his right. Greg Dixon told me the guy who put it up for consignment was a former reenactor.

4. If I add a lug to the barrel I'll silver solder it rather than weld it. That said, I have an H&R single shot 12 gauge that a friend reattached the forearm lug to the barrel with a TIG welder. The lug was poorly brazed on at the factory and broke off when I was shooting one time. The barrel and welded lug are fine, and the weld was closer to the chamber of a gun that shoots smokeless cartridges at higher pressure.
 
4. I saw some photos posted on MLF of weld spot marks left inside of the bore of a Chiappa musket opposite from where the bayonet lug
was welded on to the outside of the barrel, which the heat not only left a dark spot, but which also clearly showed a hairline fracture develop.
And that was the result of a factory weld where one would think that they knew enough about what they were doing to not cause any metal fatigue.
I have a Chiappa (Armi Sport) reproduction 1842 musket. Overall, it is excellent and very close to an original (unlike their version of the M1861, btw). But when I tried to mount an original bayonet, I discovered that the bayonet lug was in the wrong place. It was silver soldered, so I was able to remove it, relocate it, and resolder using a MAPP torch. There was some heat discoloration on the barrel, but it was easily polished back to bright.

Note that the OP's gun was made by Pedersoli, not Chiappa. I'm sure both companies use similar methods, though.
 
The sling swivels are original factory equipment, but the front swivel has been moved to the rear.
Unaltered, the front swivel mounts through the stock, up near the front of the first ramrod thimble. You can see the hole for the through-bolt in both photo #1 and photo #3.
Pedersoli calls this pattern a "trade" musket, meaning, I suppose, that this is not a replica of one of the military models. Sill expensive, though.

403509759.jpg

-----krinko
 
@krinko. If you go to Pedersoli's web page you can clearly see that this model ships sans sling swivels. Link. The swivels on my gun may have been made by Pedersoli but they were not on the gun when it was manufactured.

The hole to which you are referring is for a barrel pin. I had to drive it out so I could remove the barrel from the stock.
 
index.php
The top musket is the Miroku version of the M1863. Like all the CW muskets made by Miroku, it's closer to the originals than any of the Italian repros. But Miroku goofed on this one by having both clamping bands and band springs. That means that it's neither a Type I nor a Type II (aka M1864). On mine, I had to find solid upper and lower bands to make it a proper Type II. I used it when I was starting out in CW reenacting, but it was only correct for scenarios taking place in the last year of the war. That gave me an excuse to expand my collection of repro CW muskets. I now have a rack of seven of them (all with original bayonets), even though I no longer do reenacting.

Scratch a reenactor, and you will find a collector at heart.
 
Good Bess repro at a great price

Actually..., it's a Bess that Never Was..., but who cares, it's a very very good price. ! ;):thumbup:
The SLP model Bess wasn't the basis for the carbines that were used by the British, and the caliber was normally .65 not .75, but for a long time it was the only "carbine" that was available to reenactors..., so reenactor officers and artillery men and serjeants (British 18th c spelling) often opted for that version from Pedersoli.

So the brass shield is a reenactorism, yes. As mentioned above it protects the guy to your right, especially his left cheek.

I mentioned this on a different forum to the OP, but I will post the image here too, for anybody else who encounters this problem:

Pedersoli Carbine Swivel Location.png
If you install a tenon, you have to also make a hole for it inside the barrel channel, then you have to drill a hole for the bolt for the swivel, get it at the right angle AND hit that new tenon, OR you can enlarge the hole for the pin in the forward barrel tenon to accept the swivel bolt. If the enlarged hole is going to be too big for the tenon, it's easier to beef-up that tenon and use the existing hole than to go from scratch. Either fill the old hole for the swivel bolt with wood glued into place and dye it or..., simply put a steel pin into the hole that fits flush, and nobody except a few well versed folks will note that extra pin among the other steel pins in the stock.

LD
 
So I shot the Bess carbine today.

My first shot was a patched 0.735 ball. That’s a VERY tight fit so if I shoot any more of them, I’ll try them bare. Some smoothbore shooters do well with an over-power card or wad, bare ball, and an over ball card to hold it in place. I also have some 0.710 balls which should be easier to load with a patch, but I didn’t bring them today.

I put around 15 rounds of the paper cartridges with .690 balls and Goex 2Fg black powder through the gun. The last loaded nearly as easy as the first. I noticed that after about 10 shots there was a crud ring forming in the breech so it required extra pressure to fully seat the ball. I really liked loading from paper cartridges. I’m going to make up some for my fusil de chasse.

Compared with my longrifle, it has a much slower lock time, so follow through is even more important for good shooting.

I had a number of misfires due to lack of spark. I think what was happening was that the top jaw screw would loosen, because when I tightened it back up the gun would alway off. Obviously I need to fix that.

Recoil was noticeable but not bad

Video:

 
"If you go to Pedersoli's web page you can clearly see that this model ships sans sling swivels."

This is what happens when buying second hand, I thought I was looking at a factory job.
Installation is very tidy, with the front swivel run through the pin hole, as suggested by Loyalist Dave.
-----krinko
 
s
so if I shoot any more of them, I’ll try them bare.

What some of the guys do is to take a farrier's rasp, and they roll the musket balls on a wooden cutting board to raise bumps on the ball, to get it a closer fit...the best I'm told is when you have to sort of force the ball bumps to compress slightly to get the ball into the bore...so this is a perfect fit, but with very little actual friction. A lad I know in England swages the sides of his .75 ball so he has a small little "belt" on the ball, that allows it to slide into the clean barrel. These seem to give the best accuracy with a good wad under them and some tow over the top.

the other thing is to get a brass 1/2" angle brace from the local hardware, and you attach that under the tang bolt. It will give you a "ghost ring" sight picture with the carbine front sight. Some folks shorten it down to be more like a conventional open, rear sight.

LD
 
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