The .380 ammo I used today seems an oxymoron....

My Buffalo Bore "Tactical, Short Barrel Low Flash Reduced Recoil" 357 Magnum has velocity similar to that of Hydrashoks of the same weight. So I'd feel pretty comfortable saying they're not exclusive of each other.

I jumped on the $50 rebate for the federal self defense ammo when you buy 10 boxes.

I would think your notion of compatible makes good sense for self defense ammo...low recoil and back on target is always a issue, in my opinion.

Hokkmike said:

LOW RECOIL SELF DEFENSE ammo....

I asked myself if the notion of low recoil plus self defense were compatible.

What do you think??

Click to expand...

Isn't choosing .380 pretty much the same as choosing "low recoil self defense ammo"?

Since velocity is important for expansion, I have to say I don't feel low recoil is the best attribute to have with SD ammo. But if it's all a person can handle, then shoot what works for you.

JTQ said:

Isn't choosing .380 pretty much the same as choosing "low recoil self defense ammo"?

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One of the criticisms of pocket pistols is that their light weight and small size make their recoil nasty.

Hokkmike said:

What do you think??

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I think you should be careful that you don't put your eye out.

Hokkmike said:

Took the G-42 and my new HK AK out for a spin today. Finally warm enough. I enjoy the solitude of my home range in the Endless Mountains...

Had a new box of .380 ammo to try:

LOW RECOIL SELF DEFENSE ammo....

I asked myself if the notion of low recoil plus self defense were compatible.

The bullets are jacketed hollow points.

What do you think??

Click to expand...

If you are referring to the Federal Hydra Shok, I think it is just a marketing gimmick. I certainly can’t tell any difference in recoil between it and Hornady XTP. Both have a bit less recoil that Gold Dots. Others may feel differently given how subjective recoil is. The Hydra Shok performed decently in gel tests I’ve seen, for whatever that’s worth to you.

460Shooter said:

Since velocity is important for expansion, I have to say I don't feel low recoil is the best attribute to have with SD ammo. But if it's all a person can handle, then shoot what works for you.

Click to expand...

Recoil is a function of momentum. It turns out that two cartridges with the same muzzle energy will have lower momentum for a lighter weight bullet than a heavier one. So if you want to reduce recoil while preserving energy delivered to the target, use lighter bullets with similar powder charges.

SteadyD said:

If you are referring to the Federal Hydra Shok, I think it is just a marketing gimmick. I certainly can’t tell any difference in recoil between it and Hornady XTP. Both have a bit less recoil that Gold Dots. Others may feel differently given how subjective recoil is. The Hydra Shok performed decently in gel tests I’ve seen, for whatever that’s worth to you.

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I agree with all of this. Generally, all 90 grain self-defense ammo chronographs close to each other with the slight exception of the Gold Dot, which is a very astute observation on your part. The following are chronographed velocities and energy results in my Glock 42:
Federal Hydra Shok, 928 fps, 172 ft lbs
Hornady Critical Defense, 934 fps, 174 ft lbs
Hornady Custom XTP, 924 fps, 170 ft lbs
Hornady American Gunner XTP, 915 fps, 167 ft lbs
Speer Gold Dot, 955 fps, 182 ft lbs

The heavier rounds, including Winchester PDX1, Buffalo Bore standard pressure and Federal HST generate more recoil and a slight bit more energy.

Wear a helmet

^ and glasses.

I shot a box of the Federal hydrashok low recoil 380 alternating magazines with Hornady Critical Defense and ARX stuff. Couldn't tell any difference in my hand but then it is 3/4 of a century old and maybe not as sensitive as a chrono. Not a definitive test but I dont see much recoil difference.

Here's something that's an oxymoron, using a heavy bullet (for the caliber) with a fast powder (for the caliber) reduces recoil. Had a competition shooter tell me that, thought he had either misspoke, or missed some physics classes...but actually it seems to work. The trick is keeping it all in balance to get the velocity up without going overpressure. Max loads with fast powder and 230 grain bullets in 45 seem (to me) to have noticeably less recoil than with a slower powder. So, maybe that's what they're doing with the reduced recoil 380s...or maybe they're marketing department is taking some liberties....

Hokkmike said:

Took the G-42 and my new HK AK out for a spin today. Finally warm enough. I enjoy the solitude of my home range in the Endless Mountains...

Had a new box of .380 ammo to try:

LOW RECOIL SELF DEFENSE ammo....

I asked myself if the notion of low recoil plus self defense were compatible.

The bullets are jacketed hollow points.

What do you think??

Click to expand...

HK AK?, do you mean a HK 32/PTR32?

Hokkmike said:

Took the G-42 and my new HK AK out for a spin today. Finally warm enough. I enjoy the solitude of my home range in the Endless Mountains...

Had a new box of .380 ammo to try:

LOW RECOIL SELF DEFENSE ammo....

I asked myself if the notion of low recoil plus self defense were compatible.

The bullets are jacketed hollow points.

What do you think??

Click to expand...

I know LCP was difficult to shoot with regular ammo. No experience with low recoil .380 but in 9x19 Sig 365 ammo and Federal HST Micro generate less recoil than standard loads and noticeably less than +p.

The ARX is low recoil and a defense ammo. While I do not use ARX in a 380, because I do not the test I have seen from it. I do like in in a 9mm. In fact I carry ARX9mm plus P in my LCR and others. And you can definitely feel the reduced recoil.

9mm Pocket Pistol Shootout

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/search?q=lcr+9mm

For my 380's I shoot PrecisionOne.(although, after shooting Underwood Defender in my Kel-tec 32, I have ordered a few boxes in 380 to try out) The precisionOne has been rated very high and for myself and my guns is the most accurate I have shot. And it is very mild ammo to shoot.

I have factory made low recoil 00 buckshot and 1oz slugs that work well for 12 gauge 870/590 shotguns but jam incessantly in Benellis, and “lite” .38 Spl loads for revolvers (Hornady Critical Defense marketed them towards female shooters), but none for the .380.

The LCP-AMT class guns aren’t a whole lot of fun to shoot for extended sessions with any ammo, but my primary wants are tied: reliability and effectiveness. There has to be a minimum power level to operate a semi auto reliably, if that threshold is crossed your gun is a jam-o-matic. With the (mostly) blowback .380, as opposed to a .45 with a wide variety of recoil spring weights and much heavier bullets to choose from, I really wonder “how low can you go” with a .380 before hitting it.

With the ultra compacts I doubt there will be much difference between standard .380 and “low recoil” loads; there just isn’t a lot of mass to soak up recoil, and the narrow grips don’t spread the recoil impulse out across your palm. Maybe the Beretta 85/ Browning mini 1911 sized guns would show a greater effect on recoil with these loads due to their increased mass?

Bottom line: if the ammo works in your gun reliably, and the bullet is shown to perform well in defensive situations, then I’ll bet you will be just fine whether it’s marketed as “low recoil” or standard pressure .380 SD ammo.

Stay safe.

bersaguy said:

Here's something that's an oxymoron, using a heavy bullet (for the caliber) with a fast powder (for the caliber) reduces recoil. Had a competition shooter tell me that, thought he had either misspoke, or missed some physics classes...but actually it seems to work. The trick is keeping it all in balance to get the velocity up without going overpressure. Max loads with fast powder and 230 grain bullets in 45 seem (to me) to have noticeably less recoil than with a slower powder.

Click to expand...

Here is the bullet weight thing. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-gives-edge/99399

Here is the fast v slow powder thing. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/compensators-pressure-gas/99170

JTQ said:

Isn't choosing .380 pretty much the same as choosing " ̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶r̶e̶c̶o̶i̶l̶ less effective self defense ammo"?

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FIFY

had no idea HK makes a AK-47????

rpenmanparker said:

Recoil is a function of momentum. It turns out that two cartridges with the same muzzle energy will have lower momentum for a lighter weight bullet than a heavier one. So if you want to reduce recoil while preserving energy delivered to the target, use lighter bullets with similar powder charges.

Click to expand...

A point I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is that MANY .380 guns, especially the pocket pistols, are "blow back" rather than locked breech designs and recoil can be uncomfortable with a blowback .380 and tolerable in a locked-breech version. The GUN makes a big differences in the shooting experience. If a low-recoil rounds still has good performance (i.e., penetrates properly) it might be a good option for some .380 handguns.

Walt Sherrill said:

A point I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is that MANY .380 guns, especially the pocket pistols, are "blow back" rather than locked breech designs and recoil can be uncomfortable with a blowback .380 and tolerable in a locked-breech version. The GUN makes a big differences in the shooting experience. If a low-recoil rounds still has good performance (i.e., penetrates properly) it might be a good option for some .380 handguns.

Click to expand...

Second paragraph in my post above mentions blowback .380s and the fact that guns are set for a particular minimum power level to operate...and that the small guns are not a lot of fun to shoot. It looks like I have the same concerns you do

Stay safe.