Interview – Mike Lindsay: Having any tool for purpose of self-defense is a crime in the UK

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Since I am neither a resident of the UK nor a British subject it is not for me to criticize their laws. I can only assume those laws reflect the comfort level of that particular country. Since I would not be comfortable in that sort of scenario I am very glad that I am in the United States. I also take the restrictive laws of the UK and other places as a stern warning not to allow my country's laws to become so foolish.
 
Royal structure is no different than the oppressive forms of government we see around the world.

If your society has been comfortable living as "subjects " then it's no surprise that even the most basic rights are being denied.
 
A lot of these laws stem from the premise that violence is itself bad, rather than violence must be justified and used appropriately.
As such even intending to use a legal item as a weapon and keeping it as such is identified as planning ahead of time to do something predatory and illegal.
Yet often times the same object if just conveniently nearby would be legal to use in justified self defense.

So what actually becomes illegal is being intelligent enough to plan ahead for self defense.
While at the same time you be required to be a member of a gun club for months or over a year to even have the ability to purchase a gun in many English Common Wealth nations.
So illegal to plan to protect yourself and illegal to have the ability to do it spur of the moment.

Many firearm storage requirements also limit storage to a state that makes it impractical to retrieve and load the firearm for immediate use in rapid unexpected self defense.
My understanding is that generally stored unloaded and separate from ammunition. Which means a location for a firearm and a location for ammunition both typically locked must be visited before manual dexterity involving loading the firearm while nervous about whatever was serious enough to justify immediate lethal force.
You almost have to be storing it in a manner not officially permitted to be lucky enough to use a gun for self defense.

This situation of course creates a general fake relationship with law enforcement because even saying the wrong intent for an item is a crime, not just doing something illegal with it. So citizens have to be sure to say the proper lie to avoid charges. That cricket bat, oh yes he is quite into practicing cricket, no it has nothing to do with the recent spat of burglaries in the neighborhood. No, nobody is planning any type of self defense with an unlawful weapon.

Knowing you have to lie to your local authorities, which is increasingly a more and more severe crime, in order to do something as basic as plan to defend yourself with mediocre equipment certainly puts the authorities at odds with any self reliant civilians and the general desire to submit to the rule of law.
But the government counters that by having one of the most widespread state based surveillance systems and as islands already has natural borders that resist widespread smuggling yet still cannot stop it.


Like the saying goes...Do your lawyer a favor, if you're going to carry a bat in your car, be sure and keep a ball & glove in there as well.
 
I live in the UK. I, like most people I know, do not live in fear of crime, of being robbed, burgled, assaulted or murdered. I live in a nice market town with a low crime rate. My sons live in cities, members of my family live in London and other bits of the UK. They do not live in fear of crime or especially feel the need to be prepared for self defence beyond usual sensible precautions (locking doors etc.).
My wife and I live in a small neighborhood on the edge of a city of half a million in the midwestern United States. Home values are about half again the average for the city as a whole. Our personal experience has been similar to that of your family. Some of our neighbors leave vehicles and other property outdoors overnight. Vehicles have been broken into and lawn ornaments stolen. So far, there have been no burglaries or home invasions so no one's life has been put in danger.

It's not as safe outside the neighborhood:
  • Every gas station / convenience store we have patronized regularly has been robbed at least once. (I mean with a gun or knife not just shoplifting.)
  • The nearest grocery store has had two carjackings in their parking lot. The store has also been robbed.
  • A customer withdrawing cash from the ATM at a nearby bank was robbed at knife point. (The bank employees work inside a heavy, glass enclosure.)
  • The grocery store we patronize regularly, located farther away in a better neighborhood, has been robbed twice.
  • At the nearest hospital, where I went for rehabilitation after a cardiac procedure, an employee was carjacked.
  • In the middle-class neighborhood across the street from the hospital, a burglar broke in during a weekday afternoon not expecting anyone to be home. When he encountered the homeowner, he confronted him instead of escaping. The homeowner shot him to death. (No charges for the homeowner.)
  • I've not mentioned other violent crimes, some with fatal consequences, since they occurred under circumstances that don't apply to us.
More and more, I am beginning to believe that I've been lucky rather than safe.

UK law allows for 'reasonable force' in self defence; this is usually interpreted as 'you can hit him with the cricket bat to protect yourself but not if he is unconscious on the floor'.
However, I gather it's not permissible to keep cricket bats with the intention of using them in self defense.
 
Primary fear British crown had/has is not violence, is depose the monarchy and his business allied.
No offense intended.
 
Violent crime in England has increased dramatically while decreasing in the US. Look it up. London's murder rate is so high it sometimes outpaces New York City.
 
Over 30 years ago I went on a class trip to England during Easter break. We did a walking tour of the sights in London for a couple of days

Even though I was a jaded resident of NYC I was surprised how many businesses had thick Plexiglas windows set up between staff and customers. Far more than everywhere I traveled in NYC had at the time.

It was also pointed out to us that most scaffolding around job sites was alarmed to prevent it from being stolen, Which I never heard of before
 
Violent crime in England has increased dramatically while decreasing in the US. Look it up. London's murder rate is so high it sometimes outpaces New York City.

London is not representative of the UK as whole. Would you use the New York crime rate as indicative of crime in the USA?
 
From the UK - Office of National Statistics - Crime survey to September 2018
"Headline figures
· a 3% increase in vehicle offences, due largely to a 10% increase in the subcategory of “Theft or unauthorised taking of a motor vehicle”
· a 17% increase in robbery offences, continuing increases seen in previous years
· a 1% decrease in burglary, following increases in recent years
· a 1% decrease in shoplifting, following a longer period of increases
There has been no change in commonly occurring types of violent crime. Our assessment from the CSEW is that the level of lower-harm violent offences (for example, violence without injury, assault with minor injury) is stable.
The only main crime type measured by the survey that showed a change in the latest year was computer misuse. It decreased by 33%."

It ain't all roses by a long way but it ain't that bad either. Just because its in the news doesn't mean its all true.
 
London is not representative of the UK as whole. Would you use the New York crime rate as indicative of crime in the USA?

Greater London has a population of between 8 and 9 million (depending on who you ask) out of some 66 million in the UK. Call it an eighth of the total population.

New York City has a similar population to the Greater London area (~8.5 million) out of over 320 million in the US. Roughly a fifth the relative size of Greater London.

Granted defining the population of a "city" these days can be tricky, since the apparent metro area often extends well outside the legal city limits. Still, I think it is clear they aren't in the same league.

One would also have to ask how each side defines different crimes, look at estimates of unreported crimes and how they are generated...
 
London is not representative of the UK as whole. Would you use the New York crime rate as indicative of crime in the USA?

I didn't, but why would you assume New York represents the whole USA?

American violence tends to be concentrated in areas with certain demographic characteristics. New York, Baltimore, DC, LA, Chicago, Miami, and so on. When you omit those areas, our rate of violent crime looks a whole lot better.

A 17% increase in "robbery," over a short time, is horrifying. Since it's distinct from burglary, it clearly doesn't include showing up when no one is around.
 
Sniper66 writes:

We must, however, cut them some slack because, after all, they have good intentions.

Some do, but it's more often than not, when it's about disarmament of an entire populace, as well as banning the use of elevated counter-force when repelling crime, it's more of a case of a government wanting to maintain control over its subjects.

We all want to reduce crime and "save the children." Neither side of the 2A debate gets to claim that exclusively.
 
London is not representative of the UK as whole. Would you use the New York crime rate as indicative of crime in the USA?

Funny you should say that, when I attended Purdue there were a number of students from the UK and each and every one of them would look down their long English noses and quote the murder statistics from Chicago and expect me to feel guilty. No offense old sod but look to the beam in thy own eye. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all that downtown sort of rot
 
We must, however, cut them some slack because, after all, they have good intentions.
I've never seen those "good intentions" in evidence.

On the contrary, I've seen people who weren't afraid of guns, but rather of black and brown people (and often Jews and women) with guns.

The condescending, paternalistic racism that I've seen directed to myself and non-white gun owners in general has been eye opening.

Don't forget, the advocates of chattel slavery had "good intentions" too.
 
...... condescending, paternalistic .....
It's not just guns. There's nothing new about the attitude that legal adults must be supervised "for their own good". Do you really need an interlock to stop you from sticking your hand underneath your lawnmower while it's running or a blade guard on your table saw to stop you from cutting off your fingers? Look at all the automated, so-called, "safety features", built into the newest automobiles, that try to take control away from the driver. The Holy Grail is the autonomous, self driving automobile. When it arrives, no one will acknowledge that it is a non-flying 737 Max.
 
I live in Atlanta, a pretty major city. Average response times to emergency calls - burglar-in-house/assault-in-progress type calls - is 10 minutes. Ten minutes is a LONG time to be on your own without the right tools.

Fortunately, my nation and state do not (yet) force me to choose between having the right tools and being in compliance with the letter of the law.


When seconds count the police are minutes away
 
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