.308 Norma
Member
I wish I could do that. I don't think that fast on my feet. I seem to always think of what "I should have said" afterwards.
Should We Be Hiding?
- Thread starter MoscowMike
- Start date
- Status
The thread about how to deal with guns while trying to sell your house is interesting. Lots of thoughts about moving gun and reloading supplies out of the house, locking them in a closet or generally hiding the fact that you have firearms. A followup thread about strangers in the house discusses the risks of contractors and other strangers knowing about your collection.
I can understand the issue of upsetting some buyers, and laying yourself open to theft. You do want to stage the house so it's attractive but when you are afraid people would know you are interested in guns it's just another example of hiding. We want people to accept the fact that guns are useful tools and a fun hobby, but when we conceal our interest, people don't know how common firearms ownership is.
Folks posting on gun boards often say that they won't have NRA stickers on their car, and that they try to conceal the fact that they are taking guns out to the range. In todays climate I can understand the concern, the personal risks that you take by making it obvious you own and use guns.
In years past gay and lesbian people had the same attitude. The risks were too high, so they only revealed their true selves to people they trusted. Eventually there was a movement to come out of the closet, to reveal how many people who otherwise seemed "Normal" were gay or lesbian. The argument was that if the general populace knew how many people they dealt with on a regular basis were gay, they would have a harder time discriminating against them.
Are we in the same position that the LGBT populace was in years past? When I was growing up gun ownership and use was seen as common, but over the last fifty years the perception has changed. Many gun owners have retreated into their bubble, hiding their true lives.
I think we cannot win even grudging acceptance from the general populace without taking the risk, coming out of our closet and being more open about our interests and hobbies. Gun haters won't likely change, but the average person who doesn't think they know anyone who owns guns or shoots in matches might be more thoughtful if the family down the street is open about their interests.
Of course if you only want to talk about Mozambique Drills and being ready for the zombie apocalypse you might not find as much acceptance as we would like.
It's easier for me to advocate this as a retired man living in North Idaho. I don't have the same risks as someone living in a Seattle downtown condo or working for Levi Strauss in San Francisco. But social change often takes people willing to take risks. Protecting your valuables, whether it's jewelry or guns, isn't the same thing as hiding your lifestyle.
Should we be more open, and if so, what are good strategies?
(Similar post on The Firing Line)
The best advice I can give you worry about and take care of only NUMERO UNO yourself. Hide. I didn't know there was Moskva in Idaho. Thanks for the education.
Last edited:
RETG
Member
Will I put away my guns if I am selling my house and it is being shown? Yes. Will I put the one I wear daily but happens to be on the table if a worker comes in to do a repair or a neighbor comes over? NO! (If I don;'t know who is at the door I answer with the gun in holster or hand. Habits die hard.)
Do I walk around with an NRA sticker on my head? No. However, I usually wear my "Blue Lives Matter" hat or "Air America Hat" (and I don't mean the failed Al Gore's talk show).
I will not purposely advertise I have a gun (unless it is when hiking) but I certainly am not embarrassed to have guns and hide in a closet with them.
And even though I live in Idaho which is very gun friendly (in most places), I would do the same if I lived in CA or NY and I did when I lived for a while in NY.
Do I walk around with an NRA sticker on my head? No. However, I usually wear my "Blue Lives Matter" hat or "Air America Hat" (and I don't mean the failed Al Gore's talk show).
I will not purposely advertise I have a gun (unless it is when hiking) but I certainly am not embarrassed to have guns and hide in a closet with them.
And even though I live in Idaho which is very gun friendly (in most places), I would do the same if I lived in CA or NY and I did when I lived for a while in NY.
edwardware
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2010
- Messages
- 4,424
For OpSec purposes, no stickers on my car. The only hat I own says Greenville Gun Club RSO.
But I do make it a point that my coworkers hear me talking engineering as it relates to reloading and the history of firearms design, and perverse consequences in firearms public policy. I've taken several non-shooter shooting, etc.
My goal is that whenever they think of a 'gun owner' or 'gun nut' they think of me, and realize that the Left's demonization of gun owners can't possibly be true because they know me.
But I do make it a point that my coworkers hear me talking engineering as it relates to reloading and the history of firearms design, and perverse consequences in firearms public policy. I've taken several non-shooter shooting, etc.
My goal is that whenever they think of a 'gun owner' or 'gun nut' they think of me, and realize that the Left's demonization of gun owners can't possibly be true because they know me.
lightman
Member
I think it depends on where you live. Around here just about everyone hunts. Most of the trucks at the local cafe will have a gun in them. Most everyone knows who has guns, who hunts, even where they hunt. But its still prudent to exercise caution. I don't show off my guns except to a chosen few. Nothing on Facebook about guns except that my Wife may post a picture if we kill a limit of Ducks, a nice Deer, have a really successful Dove hunt or something. I don't really like that, but........
Every gun owner just has to evaluate what the conditions are where they live. And I feel that every gun owner should be responsible enough to secure his/her guns enough to keep them from being stolen and in the hands of crooks.
Every gun owner just has to evaluate what the conditions are where they live. And I feel that every gun owner should be responsible enough to secure his/her guns enough to keep them from being stolen and in the hands of crooks.
From a standpoint of selling my house, I would not openly display my guns. Although there would still be evidence that shooters lived there; to much to hide so not gonna waste time trying.
I openly engage anti gun folks on a regular basis. I use a low key respectful attitude backed with 2nd amendment thoughts by our founding fathers and point out the disaster that gun control has had in places of total control such as nazi germany... don’t get me started
I openly engage anti gun folks on a regular basis. I use a low key respectful attitude backed with 2nd amendment thoughts by our founding fathers and point out the disaster that gun control has had in places of total control such as nazi germany... don’t get me started
Reminds me of my experience 15 years ago when we sold our house. We had to keep the house ship-shape at all times in case someone wanted to show it. The realtor recommended stowing the guns during showings. It was easy enough then with only 5-6 six guns. I kept them in cases in a closet, so I just moved them to the back of my vehicle. It didn't feel like hiding, just prudent. Didn't have to do it for long, the house sold quickly. But, it would be a much bigger deal now as my collection has quadrupled and I now reload. Way to much stuff to hide. So I think, now what?
I've had a couple of situations like this - the most recent less than a week ago - where (hopefully) this happened.
In these situations I'd established relationships - over many many years - without them knowing I am a gun enthusiast. While on the one hand I knew they were pretty-much anti-gun, I wasn't consciously hiding it from them. But in each situation it came out very logically and as part of the conversation that I was into guns. In one case, the guy sitting next to me almost broke his neck as snapped around and he said with utter surprise "YOU OWN GUNS?! WHY?" I went into a very logical explanation as to what i do and why. And to his credit he truly sought to understand. We spoke for probably 10-15 minutes and he asked detailed questions and tried to understand my mindset.
In another case it was in a group setting - about 12 people in a book group were together. People started asking me questions - all very inquisitively and politely.
I definitely don't think I changed anyone's mind. But I'm very confident I caused them to think....and see that someone they thought they knew so well (some of these folks I've know for 10+ years) was actually "one of those guys"......and he's a nice guy!
OR
SunnySlopes
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2011
- Messages
- 1,221
Begging your pardon, but the OP is all over the board. So much so, it sounds more like trolling.
The opening line has to do with selling a house. Should we hide our guns/hobby.
It then morphs into sexuality? Seriously? I could not care less about the latter, but do care about the former. And, one has nothing to do with the other.
Concerning selling a house. Prospective buyers are definitely psychologically impacted by different "triggers." They might not even realize it, but if a strong negative emotion is elicited by a "trigger", said buyer will attach the emotion to the house. They might go away hating the house when, in fact, it might just be something "in" the house.
Let's say you are an avid hunter. Like a lot of hunters you have trophy mounts. You've got some head mounts with huge antlers hanging on the wall and when the buyer, a member of PETA, sees the mounts, he is overwhelmed and leaves. Needless to say, he's no longer interested in your house.
Maybe you're a WW2 history buff. You have all types of WW2 memorabilia, including Nazi flags and uniforms. A Holocaust survivor come in and ........................
Ditto firearms. Many people have a revulsion toward firearms, and don't even know why. But they see your collection, safe, ammo, holsters, etc. They suddenly feel threatened and leave and, again, lose interest in your house.
If and when I ever sell my house, I'll take steps to hide my hobbies. I don't know how, exactly, but I'll hide them. First, I'll do it to protect my "investment." I have guns and guitars. Thieves love guns and guitars. But I'll also do it in the name of staging the home to sell. Guns are controversial and elicit negative, unreasonable emotional responses in some people and might unduly "taint" their opinion of my home.
What's the above got to do with human "sexuality?" Nothing.
The opening line has to do with selling a house. Should we hide our guns/hobby.
It then morphs into sexuality? Seriously? I could not care less about the latter, but do care about the former. And, one has nothing to do with the other.
Concerning selling a house. Prospective buyers are definitely psychologically impacted by different "triggers." They might not even realize it, but if a strong negative emotion is elicited by a "trigger", said buyer will attach the emotion to the house. They might go away hating the house when, in fact, it might just be something "in" the house.
Let's say you are an avid hunter. Like a lot of hunters you have trophy mounts. You've got some head mounts with huge antlers hanging on the wall and when the buyer, a member of PETA, sees the mounts, he is overwhelmed and leaves. Needless to say, he's no longer interested in your house.
Maybe you're a WW2 history buff. You have all types of WW2 memorabilia, including Nazi flags and uniforms. A Holocaust survivor come in and ........................
Ditto firearms. Many people have a revulsion toward firearms, and don't even know why. But they see your collection, safe, ammo, holsters, etc. They suddenly feel threatened and leave and, again, lose interest in your house.
If and when I ever sell my house, I'll take steps to hide my hobbies. I don't know how, exactly, but I'll hide them. First, I'll do it to protect my "investment." I have guns and guitars. Thieves love guns and guitars. But I'll also do it in the name of staging the home to sell. Guns are controversial and elicit negative, unreasonable emotional responses in some people and might unduly "taint" their opinion of my home.
What's the above got to do with human "sexuality?" Nothing.
Jeb Stuart
member
One of the smartest moves is too avoid confrontation. Don't want it, don't need it in my life. No bumper stickers. I have a great driving record, do not want to get pulled over by a cop that hates civilians carrying a self defense weapon or anti guns. No politician stickers.Where I live we even have a Police Chief that is trying to get certain members of society the ability to waive the math portion of the entrance exam. Lol, these folks are not pro gun, just the opposite and hate President Trump. The US is quickly becoming divided. I wonder how far it will go?
I know a number of teachers that said they most likely would be fired if the administration knew they voted Republican.
I know a number of teachers that said they most likely would be fired if the administration knew they voted Republican.
Mn Fats
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2017
- Messages
- 2,372
If that's the case someone forgot to tell the all the people at the ranges and gun stores that I frequent. And that doesn't include all the random, positive discussions about guns I have and continue to overhear that take place outside those venues.I wish they were because...
FlSwampRat
Member
I don't have any stickers on my truck for Colt or Ruger, etc. even though I do own their products. I couldn't pass up this one sticker, though.
Attachments
I don't beleive in hiding. I also don't beleive in advertising my valuables unnecessarily. I'm an American and I own guns. And several cars. The cars are mostly just low cost ($1,000 or less) "beaters" that I park in front of my house. If I had the $ I'd have a 6 car garage. None of my cars have NRA stickers even though I'm a life member. My guns are just a few lower-cost ($200-400) working guns. If I had a large collection, I'd probably be a little more cautious due to theft concerns, but not out of fear of someone being offended that I had a bunch of guns. Although, if I could afford a large gun collection I could probably afford a decent safe, security system, and insurance policy to mitigate potential losses.
I don't usually advertise to the general public that I own guns unless guns come up in conversation, but one of my FB profile pics was of me holding an AK in front of my truck. I also don't usually wear gun-related shirts but will frequently wear camo or U.S. flag T-shirts.
I don't usually advertise to the general public that I own guns unless guns come up in conversation, but one of my FB profile pics was of me holding an AK in front of my truck. I also don't usually wear gun-related shirts but will frequently wear camo or U.S. flag T-shirts.
OP
OP
MoscowMike
Member
Perhaps I shouldn't have linked my concerns about hiding to selling houses or the way LGBT people stopped hiding.
Selling a house is a stressful time and a real estate agent might recommend removing any strong elements of your personality from the area to be shown. And of course I wouldn't recommend leaving any sorts of valuables lying about to tempt people. A couple of posters have said that nobody can steal someone's sexual orientation if they go public, but those who did a few years ago stood the risk of being fired, shunned, beaten or even killed.
When we let the culture pressure us into hiding our interest in firearms, it is pushing us into the closet. If we concentrate on our personal operational security, if we all try to become the gray man who nobody notices, don't we make it easier for society to deny our rights? The less visible we are, the easier it is to portray us as a barbaric holdover from the past.
I'm not fast on my verbal feet, so I try to avoid face to face arguments, but by being a reasonable person who is willing to be open about my interest in firearms, I hope I make people aware that we aren't all bitter clingers. If we want to be accepted, I believe we do need to make ourselves visible.
It's a personal decision, of course, and I do keep my guns in a safe.
Selling a house is a stressful time and a real estate agent might recommend removing any strong elements of your personality from the area to be shown. And of course I wouldn't recommend leaving any sorts of valuables lying about to tempt people. A couple of posters have said that nobody can steal someone's sexual orientation if they go public, but those who did a few years ago stood the risk of being fired, shunned, beaten or even killed.
When we let the culture pressure us into hiding our interest in firearms, it is pushing us into the closet. If we concentrate on our personal operational security, if we all try to become the gray man who nobody notices, don't we make it easier for society to deny our rights? The less visible we are, the easier it is to portray us as a barbaric holdover from the past.
I'm not fast on my verbal feet, so I try to avoid face to face arguments, but by being a reasonable person who is willing to be open about my interest in firearms, I hope I make people aware that we aren't all bitter clingers. If we want to be accepted, I believe we do need to make ourselves visible.
It's a personal decision, of course, and I do keep my guns in a safe.
Plenty of gun owners are both visible and highly vocal. In my experiences, many will loudly announce to anyone who cares to listen what they own and occasionally how they secure them. Most of these people even speak intelligently about firearms and don't come across badly for our side at all.
I used to be an open book about guns if you were to meet me in person - right up until an attempted home invasion and a case of bad jusgement each changed my outlook permanently.
Now if I'm talking to a stranger who neither knows me or where I live (or has a ready way of finding out), I may well discuss firearms if the subject comes up.
ETA: I don't see where cultural pressure comes into the equation. That's not even on my radar.
i have a "i love guns and coffee" (starbuck's girl) bumper sticker on my car (i didn't put it there... came with the car when i got it used but i love it) anyway.... when visiting family in san francisco i keep expecting to be keyed. not yet though.
raising everyday awareness... similar reasoning i hear for open carry. i think it has its place but a lot depends on the area you live in.
raising everyday awareness... similar reasoning i hear for open carry. i think it has its place but a lot depends on the area you live in.
CapnMac
Member
Ok, should we have to hide our affiliation? No, that's an antithesis of liberty.
Ought we, is a more complicated question.
Personnaly I don't talk much about any of my "core" values to anyone; those are my business, and not necessarily anyone elses'. Now, in the company of the like-minded, that's relaxed a bit.
This may just be me, and having 24 years of practicing "wardroom rules" of not discussing politics, religion, or sex as a habit, unless the audience is fully known. (Which is not a bad habit around family, come to cases.)
Logical people can disagree, and will respond to logic and facts. The emotional/illogical/histrionic cannot be reached with either logic or facts. Attempting to argue with those is like teaching pigs to fly, it's a waste of your time and annoys the pig.
Ought we, is a more complicated question.
Personnaly I don't talk much about any of my "core" values to anyone; those are my business, and not necessarily anyone elses'. Now, in the company of the like-minded, that's relaxed a bit.
This may just be me, and having 24 years of practicing "wardroom rules" of not discussing politics, religion, or sex as a habit, unless the audience is fully known. (Which is not a bad habit around family, come to cases.)
Logical people can disagree, and will respond to logic and facts. The emotional/illogical/histrionic cannot be reached with either logic or facts. Attempting to argue with those is like teaching pigs to fly, it's a waste of your time and annoys the pig.
RedlegRick
Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2017
- Messages
- 728
I've been hesitant to add to this, but do have a couple experiences that might relate. The first was way back in the eighties when I bought a 70 VW Bus. Plain white, with one old bumpersticker on it that said 'I brake for hallucinations'. I didn't really care for it much, but the main reason it stayed on was sheer laziness on my part. After the third pull over and getting my van tossed, I got rid of it and the problem went away.
The second happened virtually the same way, bought a vehicle with preexisting stickers and didn't bother getting rid of them. In this case, it was formerly owned by a VERY vocal 2A supporter and it showed.
At the time, I didn't possess an NYS pistol permit (only a 12 gauge pump), but that van had them all, you know what I'm talking about, the 'protected by S&W' and stuff like that. Again, sheer laziness on my part, but this time, the message was sent by some a-hole at a local mall, who broke in and tore my interior up looking for guns I didn't have.
The local yokels weren't nice about it at all and pointed out all the stickers that painted a big target on my vehicle. Ever since then, I refuse to put ANY sticker or sign on my cars or where I live. Too many BB brained partisan types iny area and I don't need the grief.
Hiding? You can call it that. I prefer camouflage instead. Haven't had an issue since, so something is working.
The second happened virtually the same way, bought a vehicle with preexisting stickers and didn't bother getting rid of them. In this case, it was formerly owned by a VERY vocal 2A supporter and it showed.
At the time, I didn't possess an NYS pistol permit (only a 12 gauge pump), but that van had them all, you know what I'm talking about, the 'protected by S&W' and stuff like that. Again, sheer laziness on my part, but this time, the message was sent by some a-hole at a local mall, who broke in and tore my interior up looking for guns I didn't have.
The local yokels weren't nice about it at all and pointed out all the stickers that painted a big target on my vehicle. Ever since then, I refuse to put ANY sticker or sign on my cars or where I live. Too many BB brained partisan types iny area and I don't need the grief.
Hiding? You can call it that. I prefer camouflage instead. Haven't had an issue since, so something is working.
I do not hide the fact I own guns from any family or friends. They all know.I would prefer that people I do not know not know I have guns.
I have several hats I wear and one of them is an NRA hat, occasionally mistaken for the Marine Corp emblem. I have never been questioned or given any trouble for wearing the NRA hat. I don`t put stickers on any of my vehicles because I just don`t do that. I do however believe in this day and age your sticker can make you or your vehicle a target, but I guess my NRA hat can make me a target too. I would rather have a face to face than an individual keying my vehicle. It will be much harder for them to vandalize me and get away with it.
I have several hats I wear and one of them is an NRA hat, occasionally mistaken for the Marine Corp emblem. I have never been questioned or given any trouble for wearing the NRA hat. I don`t put stickers on any of my vehicles because I just don`t do that. I do however believe in this day and age your sticker can make you or your vehicle a target, but I guess my NRA hat can make me a target too. I would rather have a face to face than an individual keying my vehicle. It will be much harder for them to vandalize me and get away with it.
Last edited:
theotherwaldo
Member
My boss is a big-wig in the local Democrat party.
I have one bumper sticker.
It says, "I Love My Library."
I have one bumper sticker.
It says, "I Love My Library."
robinkevin
Member
I feel as others have said it's not about hiding but rather not advertising aka not making ourselves targets.
With in your home you don't want strangers who may be dishonest people knowing how many firearms you have or where they are stored for more a theft prevention step.
When in public I don't often advertise with NRA hat or other clothing for same reason I don't believe in open carry, it can put a target on you. If you are somewhere and a person with evil intent comes in they will see you as a threat and as such will target you first ti eliminate that threat which may stop their plans (robbery or killing).
Lastly I don't like the idea of bumper stickers as there are times we must leave guns in our cars (workplace, government buildings, schools, ect.) and in such moment a bumper sticker can make your car a target telling would be thieves that it's worth breaking in to.
We must remember criminals thrive on moments of opportunity, by not presenting said opportunity we deter the crime in first place.
With in your home you don't want strangers who may be dishonest people knowing how many firearms you have or where they are stored for more a theft prevention step.
When in public I don't often advertise with NRA hat or other clothing for same reason I don't believe in open carry, it can put a target on you. If you are somewhere and a person with evil intent comes in they will see you as a threat and as such will target you first ti eliminate that threat which may stop their plans (robbery or killing).
Lastly I don't like the idea of bumper stickers as there are times we must leave guns in our cars (workplace, government buildings, schools, ect.) and in such moment a bumper sticker can make your car a target telling would be thieves that it's worth breaking in to.
We must remember criminals thrive on moments of opportunity, by not presenting said opportunity we deter the crime in first place.
I believe this quote from the Shootist sums up how I feel.
“I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid-a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same of them.”
― Glendon Swarthout, The Shootist
Or this one “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
I live or try to live by these rules and I expect other to do the same.
“I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid-a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same of them.”
― Glendon Swarthout, The Shootist
Or this one “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
I live or try to live by these rules and I expect other to do the same.
- Status
