Case cleaning water disposal

Demi-human said:

Plant roots don't uptake lead as a mineral in the cation exchange in the soil.

Lead is relatively inert and doesn't like to combine with low energy compounds. So it likes to stay put. It doesn't travel easily and it's contamination vectors are easily traced. It does not move through soil layers easily and is not transported by water that is not also moving tracts of land.

Putting the dust in the water keeps it out of the air and lungs. Hand washing keeps it out of the mouth. Pouring the water in the drain keeps a tray of friable lead dust from being jostled around in the garage. Pouring it out on the lawn returns it to the ground, from whence it came.
(Though I don't recommend that. Shoe to floor contamination. That, and I have omnipotent, opressive control over my yard, Augusta National has nothing on my lawn...)

You won't poison your neighbors with lead, unless ya shoot 'em...

A caviler attitude about lead is never prudent. I commend you on your concern for the neighborhood.

I have abated lead and asbestos for eleven years. I have shot and handloaded for five and three respectively. My blood level is still zero.

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That mirrors what I read in one report that I found online. A range that had been in operation for many years was shut down due to a local township expanding, and concerns were raised about lead contamination in the ground water. Test wells were drilled in various locations on and around the site, and they found no lead contamination in any of the test wells. They also tested soil samples and came to the conclusion that the lead did not penetrate the top layer of soil.

I live on 13A, and sounds like I have the same setup, I don't have laterals, I have a potty pond.

I just dump mine on the ground.....

Now I am not sure that is responsible, good or even suggest it....just telling you what I do....and my thinking behind it.

I also live on gravel....just tossing that in there.

Have you ever seen the road after a long dry spell then rain comes.....see the snow on the side of the road. Oil, rubber, and doG knows what else in the water. We just picked up 1.75 inches of rain last night....my driveway is a river....really a river. I also shoot on my property....the bullets go into a berm that gets wet.....405 grain all lead bullets. I really think the small amount of lead left in a case is a grain of sand on the beach. Does it make a difference....well yes it does....is it worth the worry....I don't think so.

Now I am open to someone changing my mind....only a small minded person never changes so I am all ears to a case and way of disposing of it.

Yup. Me, too. But you'll sooner die from all the bacon cheese burgers and whiskey than that.

Well, I will anyway.

I would think that a single .22 cal bullet landing on your property would do more damage than many years of tumbler water.
On that note, I'd be much more concerned about the human / animal waste getting into the water table than the lead.

A few folks have misread an AGE of 55 as a Pb level. Dude was 55 when he was tested, 58 now...

There are a few things to keep in mind when dealing with this kind of “wastewater treatment.”

Different municipalities have different requirements, and popular methods may not all be appropriate in all locales, and not all septic service companies have the same end disposal method.

Lead is bioaccumulative, and water is a major source for MOST non-indoor shooting range, average citizens.

Elemental lead, as in the dull grey metal we associate with inexpensive bullets, is largely insoluble in water. We are not dealing with elemental lead in priming compounds or on dirty brass. Even elemental lead can become more readily soluble in water if exposed to air and water to form lead oxide. I haven’t looked up the specific chemistry, but I expect lead oxide would also be the primary lead residue from lead styphnate detonation.

We add things to our tumbler or ultrasonic-er water to improve the solvent capabilities. The bulk mass is water, but we add chemicals to create a solution, with the intent of dissolving fouling from the cases. I have not gone through the chemistry of acetic acid and the chemicals common to commercially available brass cleaning solutions, but I expect there’s a constituent in the mix which enhances lead solubility, such I further expect we’ll have solublized lead in the post-cleaning aqueous solution.

In any solution, there is opportunity for “suspended solids,” as well as dissolved solids. These are not one and the same. So in the case of case cleaning, we do expect to have very fine particulate solid lead, lead oxide, unburned lead styphnate, or other lead compounds suspended in the aqueous solution. These suspended solids are generally expected to settle into sludge in septic systems. Expected to... Solublized lead in the cleaning solution may not be so readily precipitated, which largely depends upon the chloride anion concentration of the septic system (among other potential chemistry there). Bottom line, I readily expect to have some solublized lead in the cleaning solution. Filtering suspended solids will not remove dissolved lead.

So in the case of the OP here, a guy COULD conceivably either 1) pan evaporate the media to leave lead residue behind, or equally, and more proactively 2) precipitate the lead by adding HCl or table salt to increase the chloride content. A guy would have to fine filter, distill, or evaporate the water at that point, as you’d still have to deal with the fine suspended solids. A chemical flocculant may be added which MIGHT allow a coarser filter (faster filter rate) or maybe even allow the solution to be decanted, leaving the heavy precipitate sludge at the bottom to be naturally or otherwise dried prior to disposal.

Most guys find it easier to simply evaporate the water. When I was on septic, I evaporated mine, and will again when the house is finally finished and we move off of municipal sewer.

For the fellers that are susceptible and fear lead poisoning; https://www.northernsafety.com/Sear...MIzu7Uwdun4QIV0iCtBh0Y7wWXEAAYAiAAEgIG9vD_BwE

Personally, I just use common sense...

Although I wish I did shoot a volume that would require a more diligent thought process on grey water disposal, I would posit that a pan of friable lead compounds left in a garage poses more a contamination hazard to the average "Joe Shooter" than dumping it in the drain.

Some here must admit they are a bit above average.

While an evaporation tray is a cheap and excellent way to keep lead out of a septic tank, I just spent two cases worth of shot shell primers, and their elemental payload, breaking pigeons over said drain system and accompanying swamp.

Chemical flocculant? Mangenese and Melamine Formeldahyde is not without its hazards, too.
Besides, I am only a man.
(Well, almost.)

I think the consciousness isn’t about saving yourself, but rather avoiding a negative, toxic influence on generations to come.

"A few folks have misread an AGE of 55 as a Pb level. Dude was 55 when he was tested, 58 now..."

Thats correct. Thanks for pointing that out Varminterror. I clarified it in my post.

I'm considering getting some sort of wet media case cleaning system, but I keep thinking about how to dispose of the used water. It's likely to be contaminated with lead from the primer compound.

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Do you shoot on your land?

There will be more lead in a single bullet or shotshell than all the water from wet tumbling will contain, by far.

If your really that worried dump the water in a 5 gallon bucket and haul it off.

Not me. Shooting at indoor range raised my blood level high enough for my doctor to report to Department of Public Health

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I got calls from the State, stuff in the mail......

I was a way higher than BDS I was adult chelation level high but by the time the Insurance company got me in to someone in LA to see about getting it done my levels were border line for chelation,
but still way high. At that time the Doc said he could do it but levels were headed the right direction and he suggested holding off and monitoring to see how it went.

Nothing fun down that road......

I traced my issue to shooting at an indoor range, stopped going to the indoor range and that took care of it.
This is after no shooting, no loading until levels were down around 15ish.


With a septic tank I would say dump the water in barrel, cover it to keep wild life out and let the water evaporate.
The above is just a though, I don't know what is legal in your area or for that matter what is best for an enviromental standpoint.

Varminterror said:

I think the consciousness isn’t about saving yourself, but rather avoiding a negative, toxic influence on generations to come.

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I agree vehemently. And I didn't mean to sound dismissive, as there is no safe limit of lead in humans. Or any animal, really.

I think to leave the rinse to evaporate to dry dust is not great. A small draft can move a large amount of now concentrated dust. A coverable, lined tray with a sludge mat or disposable towel that can be left damp is much better for storage until disposal. keeping the dust saturated. Or a small, dedicated HEPA vacuum for the dust at each evaporation cycle would hold a large amount of dust before needing to be changed.

mdi said:

For the fellers that are susceptible...

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The Dupont Tychem Tens are not that uncomfortable. Especially with gently warmed, pressurized and filtered air. Really the Cadillac of personal protective envelopes.The runoff containment system cleanup was the most tedious part of my work. Keeping everything wet to avoid friability and still wearing a suit. Packing up and labeling everything we used to keep the lead out of the ground, then taking that to the landfill to have them bury it...

Putting out all the new clean plastic and piping was actually kind of fun.

Going thorough weeks of classes to do menial labor in a bubble suit, not so much...

Tony k said:

I'm considering getting some sort of wet media case cleaning system, but I keep thinking about how to dispose of the used water. It's likely to be contaminated with lead from the primer compound.

I'm on a septic system on a small acreage. I and all of my neighbors get drinking water from wells--some are pretty shallow. If I was on a municipal water system, I wouldn't bat an eye at pouring tumbler water down the drain, but I keep wondering if the lead and other contaminants will settle out in my septic tank, or if they will stay suspended in the water, flowing into the drain field, ultimately ending up in my neighbor's drinking water in a couple decades. Pouring it on the ground seems like a bad idea too.

What do you all do with it? Am I over thinking this?

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I believe you are overthinking this. If you are any of your neighbors have wells close enough to your septic system to become contaminated from lead that you put into your system you already have a problem.

I'm also on a well with a septic tank. Our water is pretty darn good. I get it checked every year. I switched from a dry media vibrator to wet tumbling because I could. Dry worked OK, but I wanted to try the wet. I feel the wet gets the inside of the cases and primer pockets much cleaner. I didn't even think about water disposal. It goes into the septic. I'm thinking I don't do enough in a year to worry about it. I do 9 mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 5.56/223. I'm lucky to do 1,000 combined cases in a year.

"I was a way higher than BDS I was adult chelation level high but by the time the Insurance company got me in to someone in LA to see about getting it done my levels were border line for chelation,
but still way high. At that time the Doc said he could do it but levels were headed the right direction and he suggested holding off an monitoring to see how it went."

Was your only "life style" change stop shooting indoors? No diet or medication changes?

Off thread but,
I traced the problem to the indoor range where used to shoot.
After my levels were down I started reloading again, and shooting outdoors.
3 months no increase.
Since I still had my membership at the indoor range I went back and shot there for about 8 hours one month.
Levels headed back up.
I really liked going there since it was only a 30 minute round trip from my house but not worth it.
(outdoor range is a 2 hour round trip)
I could probably wear a mask and be ok at the indoor range but that sort of takes the fun out of it. (Luke I am your father...)
Or if I limited my shooting time there I might be able to go on occasion, but for the cost to renew my membership it isn't worth messing with.

No diet changes no meds. (other than vitamins and Tums)

When doing research indoor ranges can be done right. However it appears a lot of them are not.

Tony k said:

Mainly air rifles at squirrels and woodpeckers tearing up my buildings .

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That should be pretty low volume not to mention you don’t need to wet tumble anything for air rifles.

I have septic at home and on our farm, I would be more concerned if that got into my drinking water than an oz of shot.