Swede mistaken for 'deer' by hunter using thermal optic

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Double Naught Spy

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http://www.ladbible.com/news/weird-...oting-a-75-year-old-jogger-in-sweden-20190326

I hunt with thermal. Thermal offers some challenges to target identification that are more different and sometimes more difficult than hunting with a daylight scope. This hunter claimed he thought he was shooting at a deer. The target in question was a 75 year old jogger. The prosecutor says that from the video, it is obvious that the guy was shooting at a human. From the video shown, that he was shooting at a human is not obvious, but then again, it isn't obviously any animal. It certainly could be a human, or an animal with a quartered-toward approach. I could see where the hunter could not tell that was a human (from the short video shown) but there is no way in hell that he could identify it as a deer. All that the hunter has is a warm-blooded lifeform that is in motion.

On top of that, the guy is shooting toward buildings that are the backdrop to the "deer" he was trying to kill. He used illegal ammo, was illegally hunting at night, and apparently needed permission to be hunting with the sight he was using. Everything about this shot is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Care must be taken when identifying targets with thermal. The scope in question appears to be a Pulsar Trail. Assuming it is on native magnification, it should be the XP50 model. It could be the XP38 zoomed from 1.2x to 1.6x, but I doubt it. I have used and/or hunted with the Pulsar Apex line and various models of the Pulsar Trail line of thermal optics including the XQ50, XP38, and XP50. I currently have an XP38 LRF (with laser range finder) for testing at this time.

You can ethically hunt with thermal and properly identify targets with thermal. This target obviously was not properly identified and based on the video shared, cannot be identified as the target the shooter claimed he thought it was.
 
http://www.ladbible.com/news/weird-...oting-a-75-year-old-jogger-in-sweden-20190326

I hunt with thermal. Thermal offers some challenges to target identification that are more different and sometimes more difficult than hunting with a daylight scope. This hunter claimed he thought he was shooting at a deer. The target in question was a 75 year old jogger. The prosecutor says that from the video, it is obvious that the guy was shooting at a human. From the video shown, that he was shooting at a human is not obvious, but then again, it isn't obviously any animal. It certainly could be a human, or an animal with a quartered-toward approach. I could see where the hunter could not tell that was a human (from the short video shown) but there is no way in hell that he could identify it as a deer. All that the hunter has is a warm-blooded lifeform that is in motion.

On top of that, the guy is shooting toward buildings that are the backdrop to the "deer" he was trying to kill. He used illegal ammo, was illegally hunting at night, and apparently needed permission to be hunting with the sight he was using. Everything about this shot is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Care must be taken when identifying targets with thermal. The scope in question appears to be a Pulsar Trail. Assuming it is on native magnification, it should be the XP50 model. It could be the XP38 zoomed from 1.2x to 1.6x, but I doubt it. I have used and/or hunted with the Pulsar Apex line and various models of the Pulsar Trail line of thermal optics including the XQ50, XP38, and XP50. I currently have an XP38 LRF (with laser range finder) for testing at this time.

You can ethically hunt with thermal and properly identify targets with thermal. This target obviously was not properly identified and based on the video shared, cannot be identified as the target the shooter claimed he thought it was.

Well...

It appears that the armed imbecile in question was already shooting Into a Domicile Structure in the first place.

...Comedy and Hi-jinks to follow.




GR
 
Don't they teach hunter safety there??? You know, be sure of your target and all that?

Norwegian poacher in Sweden. Who knows what sort of hunter education he may have received. Whatever safety he may have learned, he wasn't taking it into consideration. That is a problem we have here with daylight hunters who are not poaching. While hunter safety courses have been very beneficial, sometimes education cannot overcome buck fever and/or downright irresponsibility.
 
Norwegian poacher in Sweden. Who knows what sort of hunter education he may have received. Whatever safety he may have learned, he wasn't taking it into consideration. That is a problem we have here with daylight hunters who are not poaching. While hunter safety courses have been very beneficial, sometimes education cannot overcome buck fever and/or downright irresponsibility.

Well, true, no education can equal experience and so I was grandfathered (an appropriate term) when Texas passed the law requiring hunter safety.
 
The gunshot wound left him seriously injured, but he managed to struggle his way to a neighbour several hundred metres away and get some help.
I think the most damning bit is that victim needed to drag himself to help.

That shooter is a fool and a heartless b*d too.
 
I didn't think the video showed a deer at all.
However leaving the benefit of doubt on the table having never shot with thermal sights I decided to do a search on "deer through thermal scope". Ummm yeah. The guy's a total imbecile right up there with so called hunters who shoot at noises. Don't get me started on the house which appears right in the line of fire. I don't know what kind of book they can throw at this guy but he deserves it 100% IMHO.
 
Obviously bipedal.

Looks and moves like a man in a gillie-suit.

Only an imbecile would shoot that target.




GR

Olle wasn't wearing a ghillie suit, LOL. Most people would have no clue what it looks like for a man to be moving in a ghillie suit. How did you even determine it would be a "man" in a ghillie suit. :D

I hunt almost exclusively with thermal and have with the possible models in question. Dealing with thermography can be a real challenge. You get a perspective with little or no depth perception and scale can be very hard to determine. Depending on the angle of the approach, the front legs can hide the high legs from view. I have been with people who have confused rabbits, coyotes, raccoons, deer, and cattle for hogs. Rabbits and cattle don't particularly look like hogs and are nowhere similar in size, yet that is the identification being made. Identification (versus spotting and recognition) can be a timely process depending on the capabilities of the optic, distance, environmental conditions at the time, etc.

When you have been told what you are seeing in advance, not in the pressure of the situation, it is a lot easier to 'know' what you are seeing.
 
The police have concluded it was an intentional shooting, but the victim has no enemies that are known..., so the question is, Who did the shooter think he was shooting? NOT what! If the police research the shooter, they will find who the victim was supposed to be....on the other hand who benefits from the shooting victim's life insurance policy? Who is in the will?

LD
 
Olle wasn't wearing a ghillie suit, LOL. Most people would have no clue what it looks like for a man to be moving in a ghillie suit. How did you even determine it would be a "man" in a ghillie suit. :D

Well...

I watched the vid. - and determined it to be obviously bipedal, the thermal distortion appearing to me to be a man in a ghillie suit.

Attributed the "ghillie suit" to be thermal distortion, and removed it.

...which left a man.

The determination of imbecility was about as challenging.

Not all that complicated.




GR
 
Norwegian hunter, night hunting in the south of Sweden. Night vision is illegal in Sweden but you can get a dispensation for use on boar in some counties with high boar population.Doubt he had a dispensation. It seem alcoholic drink played a part in the shooting. Hunter education is very comprehensive in Scandinavian. When i did the hunting exam it was done over 9 months of weekly lessons. The Norwegian hunter is a idiot and hopefully they will throw the book at him.
 
Well...

I watched the vid. - and determined it to be obviously bipedal, the thermal distortion appearing to me to be a man in a ghillie suit.

Attributed the "ghillie suit" to be thermal distortion, and removed it.

...which left a man.

The determination of imbecility was about as challenging.

Not all that complicated.




GR

The dude is an idiot, but nothing about that video screams “obviously bipedal”. There’s no way to make a positive ID on that target and the shot should not have been made, but I think you are leaning on the fact that you knew in advance that it was a human.
 
The dude is an idiot, but nothing about that video screams “obviously bipedal”. There’s no way to make a positive ID on that target and the shot should not have been made, but I think you are leaning on the fact that you knew in advance that it was a human.

Well...

In the normal view? it looks like Sasquatch.

In the magnified view, which I assume the imbecile was using, clearly shows a head/shoulders silhouette, arm swing, and bipedal foot motion.

That's just me - I notice things.

YMMV.




GR
 
Drink almost certainly involved.

Bad judgment or bad intent? Very very hard to believe the Norwegian "made a mistake". I would buy drunk. I could buy mental. As noted abive, hunter safety and education is pretty rigorous in the Nordic states and the Norske was committing several crimes, as well as taking a classic no way shot into an unidentified target backed by a house.
 
...thermal distortion...
What is "thermal distortion"?
In the magnified view, which I assume the imbecile was using, clearly shows a head/shoulders silhouette, arm swing, and bipedal foot motion.
I have looked at the video several times and can see no head (and therefore no shoulders), no arms (and therefore no arm swing) and no clearly defined legs, (and therefore no feet and no foot/leg count). If someone told me that it was a very long-haired sheepdog with its head down, walking slowly quartering towards the scope, I would be unable to disprove it from the video.

Which is a terrible indictment of the shooter. You don't shoot at anything you can't clearly identify. He deserves to be prosecuted. But not for murder, IMO. At least not based on the section of video in the article.

And the buildings were very obvious and easily identifiable. Shooting towards them as he did was criminal.
 
It's not just the movement of the target, it's the movement relative to the background and the shooter.
The shooter has to track the target from left to right. The movement of the target is not towards the scope, it is across the scope.

You can see two feet moving. So what kind of animal can walk across your field of view and appear to have only two feet, and be taller than it is wide?
 
It’s a target that is taller than it is wide, that’s one give away, I don’t know, maybe they walk around like this there...

88C53BD5-8129-4586-9EA7-F2E925ECFC4F.jpeg
 
What is "thermal distortion"?

Thermal image - is not hard-edged visible light - it consists of heat blooms.


I have looked at the video several times and can see no head (and therefore no shoulders), no arms (and therefore no arm swing) and no clearly defined legs, (and therefore no feet and no foot/leg count). If someone told me that it was a very long-haired sheepdog with its head down, walking slowly quartering towards the scope, I would be unable to disprove it from the video.

Reminds me of an old saying:
"Just because you don't understand - doesn't necessarily make me crazy."

That's just me - I notice things.

YMMV.




GR
 
Well...

In the normal view? it looks like Sasquatch.

In the magnified view, which I assume the imbecile was using, clearly shows a head/shoulders silhouette, arm swing, and bipedal foot motion.

That's just me - I notice things.

YMMV.

We get it. You see things. Again, you had the advantage of knowing what you were looking at when you watched the video. I can easily see a human being when I watch the video, especially watching the fall after the shot. I can also see where that image could be mistaken for a deer quartering steeply towards the shooter. It was a shot that should have never been taken, but it I wouldn’t say it was “obviously” a human and I’ve spent a LOT of time behind a thermal scope.



GR
 
Thermal image - is not hard-edged visible light - it consists of heat blooms.

No, a thermal image doesn't really consists of "heat blooms." I am not sure what you mean by "heat bloom" but is isn't like these are blossoming flowers of heat. A thermal image DOES consist of light which can be viewed as hard edged with the right gear and conditions. Thermal technology sees light in the infrared spectrum, roughly in the 3 micron wavelength to 30+ micron wavelength. Much of that you consider to be thermal distortion is not a failing of the thermal energy as you intimated (the so-called "blooms"), but a largely a failing of the thermal sensor and related technology to see and process the infrared energy into a picture.

The image in question is seen at 640x480 resolution with 17 microns between the thermal sensor/detector elements through a low magnification lens (apparently 1.6x, 6.4x PiP). Olle in the image has a resolution of less than 30 pixels high and less than 10 pixels wide.
 
I agree with the prosecutor in that from the video clip offered, I'm seeing what appears to be a slightly heavy-set man moving at a shambling gait. Not quite jogging, but not quite walking either. A fairly typical 'old guy' pace for getting exercise. And as unsteady as the hunter's hand is in steadying the rifle, it appears he took aim and fired at the hip deliberately. No matter what the upright-shambling animal, who shoots for the hip? Was this guy suffering a massive case of buck fever, just had to take a shot at anything showing up on the thermal?

And yeah, as OP states, he's got buildings for a backstop, which is simply unacceptable. Even if he'd missed the jogger entirely he was deliberately putting the lives of any occupants of those buildings in danger, and as such should be charged with attempted murder or similar. Adding in all the firearms related nonsense, illegal ammunition, lamping without permission, hunting certain game at night against regulations... this idiot needs to reflect for some time in a prison cell before he's allowed to hold a rifle again.
 
The trial started yesterday so it will be interesting to see the outcome. In Sweden we don't have the very long prison sentences like in the US apart from the very worst of crimes. Heard on the radio that he thought he was shooting at a roe deer. Its illegal to shoot roe at night and with a night sight. The jogger was very lucky to get a minor wound to the hip. Doubt he will get more than a year inside and a stiff fine.
 
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