I know this will WEARY you but I have a (well worn) AR question?

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I’ll let the late Pat Rogers tell you what to look for if you want a gun that is duty user oriented.



You will get a ton of different answers here based on each individuals experiences and preferred use. Most of them don’t have the breadth of knowledge or observed operation that Mr. Rogers had. So consider that in your decision.

I won’t make any recommendations because no one ever listens anyway. Most are looking for confirmation of their own biases, and I’m uninterested in playing that game.

Regardless of your choice the video can provide insights into magazines, and maintenance of your AR as well.
 
PSA all the way Brah!

Find me a bad review... $350 for a good AR with a full lifetime warranty. You really really cant go wrong with PSA, especially for your first. You can always go full barbie doll later on . Spend your remaining $450 on ammo and mags.
 
1. Reliability of action.
2. Wide availability of ammo at reasonable prices
3. 2 inch groups at 100 yards. (Is that possible in an economy model of this platform?)
4. Largest game would be whitetail deer at 200ish yards (hunting with semis not yet legal in PA for deer)
5. Not excessively heavy. Maybe 6 - 8 pounds w/scope and mounts
6. Adequate for home defense. (I employ handguns currently for this job)
7. Suitable in the event we are ever forced from our homes in a national emergency. (not likely, and I really don't think that way much. But why not?)

I would suggest doing some more research and refining these. It will be very difficult to find a rifle that meets all these criteria since meeting some means excluding others.

For instance:
5.56/223 meets 1,2,3,5,7 but isn't ideal for 4 or 6.
300 BO meets 1, probably 2, 5,ideal for 6, and meets 7 but is probably going to be a challenge on 3 and really needs more powder capacity to be comfortable with 4
6.5 Grendel meets 1, 2 with the steel cased ammo, 3 if you use the brass cased ammo (which may negate 2), is good for 4 and 5, but probably not ideal for 6, meets 7.
We could make this list for 224V, 6.8spc, 458socom, 22Nosler, etc.

These are just opinions, so flame away if a person does not realize that their pet caliber doesn't do everything well. The point is that concessions have to be made or the criteria has to be refined.
 
There's almost too many choices out there.

It's a little bit like looking for a ride. 2 door, 3 door, or 4? Trunk or hatch? Cargo bed? Coupe or truck or SUV? All wheel drive, 4WD or 2WD. All question to narrow down to before getting to nameplate or body color.

For 2¢, I'd tell you, quite sincerely, to go down to the LGS and look at what they have. Ask to hold a couple. See if you like fixed or adjustable stock. Try out a couple of different forends for feel. Try a couple different lengths out for feel. If you find one, take note of who built it, and what it's called.

Then, go to the next closest GS and loo over their stock, too. Perhaps a third if you can.

Maybe the same maker's name keeps popping up. Maybe the same features sort themselves out. Either way, you can narrow your options. Then, you can settle into internet research ahd find the best price (which might not be on the 'net--or you may want the immediacy of being able to take it home now for a few bucks more).
 
I would avoid cheap builder kits such as PSA, I have bad luck with out of spec parts and so have others. You may get lucky , many do. I would stick with a major name brand factory rifle with a warranty. I did have a very good Del-ton kit.
Also with good expanding bullets, they do well on deer. I have posted a pic on here of a 280 lbs. 14 pointer I shot with one. Shot placement and proper bullets are the key. A .223 soft point is better than a shotgun slug on deer.
 
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Guy says he doesn’t want to do a build, guy gets two pages of build recommendations.

To the OP: if you look around you might be able to find a Colt for your budget. While I don’t know if it is deserved, Colt still has the best resale value to the average Joe buying a secondhand rifle. Otherwise I would just try to find a Ruger, Savage, Armalite or S&W at a decent price. Find the one with the best mix of features or maybe the one that’s on sale. All are pretty much the same, although unlike boutique assemblers the big makers might actually be making their own major parts rather than contracting them out.

Springfield is all marketing IMO. It’s just another rifle.
 
As an all around, out of the box AR that won't break the bank I like the Ruger MPR

https://ruger.com/products/ar556MPR/models.html

It comes with an 18" barrel that splits the difference between the 16" M4 copies and a full length 20" barrel. Accuracy is superb and reliability has been 100% on mine. The 1:8 twisted barrel shoots bullet weights from 50-77 gr. It probably wouldn't shoot the 90 gr offerings, but not many do that anyway. The out of the box trigger is better than most AR triggers. I paid $600 OTD for mine.

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/ruger-8514-ar-556-5-56-18-mpr/

For your intended purposes I'd stay with 223/5.56. Good quality ammo is cheap and with the solid copper bullet such as Barnes, or with heavy for caliber 60-75 gr softpoint bullets will work on deer size game. It still wouldn't be my 1st choice if I had other options for deer hunting, but I've taken deer with mine and it'll work within range limitations. If you ever decide to use the AR platform for a dedicated hunting rifle it isn't terribly expensive to add another upper in a more potent cartridge.

I have this scope on mine. The illuminated reticle serves the same function as a red dot, on 1X it is fast on target up close and 6X gives me enough magnification for shots out past 400 yards.

https://www.swfa.com/vortex-1-6x24-strike-eagle-30mm-rifle-scope-kit.html
 
I want to thank you all for taking the time to provide such insightful and informative posts to answer my question. A local police officer as traded in an AR style Palmetto AR at LGS. He bought an AR style 12 gauge.

So many variables to consider on these things....
 
So many variables to consider on these things....

Yes there are. And it's probably the reason most of us end up with more than one.
Get what you think you want as a first one and learn/refine/expand from there.
I started with a 20" HBAR back in the 80s in order to have a practice rifle for the military rifle team I was on. Went to 24" bull barrel prairie dog rifles from there. Never got interested in a carbine until a certain presidential election several years ago. Now have carbines representing a few calibers.

Edit: and I enjoyed every one.

All that just to say that you have some requirements for your current wants/needs and you have some input to what can meet most if not all. Pretty sure that will change down the road.
 
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I want to thank you all for taking the time to provide such insightful and informative posts to answer my question. A local police officer as traded in an AR style Palmetto AR at LGS. He bought an AR style 12 gauge.

So many variables to consider on these things....

I built a AR using PSA Freedom Rifle Kit and love the results. I brought it mainly to see how good of a gun I could build on a budget. My point is I would not shy away from the PSA AR at your LGS.

I am very picky about the BCG as it the heart of a accurate gun. Remove the BCG and inspect the bolt. Make sure the gas key is tight and the screws are properly staked. Check the bolt to see if it is MPI and HPI. Hopefully it will be stamped and has not been worn off by use and cleaning. Inspect the locking lugs on the bolt for wear.

Good trigger is nice but it is easy to replace with a better one.

Since it is a used gun will your LGS let you test fire it?

Are you including extra magazines (at least 10) in your budget? Magpul Gen 3 are the gold standard. Even the Marines are buying them. If you are really lucky you may find them for $10.00 each but $12.00 is more likely.

And don’t forget ammo to feed it. That is another reason to go with 5.56 for your first one.
 
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Any reputable manufacturer at your dealer will be a good rifle. If you care about chrome lining etc. get a Colt.
The main thing with AR's is get quality mags and m4 feedramps.
 
my recommendation is to grab either a complete rifle or an assembled upper and lower of your choosing from PSA. my last "build" used an assembled upper from them and i will definitely be going back to them for my next project. watch their daily deals to, sometimes you can get a real steal

check this out... complete rifle, 1000 rounds of ammo, and 10 pmags AND free shipping all for your $800 budget:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...reedom-rifle-olive-drab-green-5165450007.html
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ame...en-10-magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45mm-magazines.html

add another $20 if you want to move up to a free float handguard:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-nitride-lightweight-m-lok-classic-rifle.html

if you buy the upper and lower separately, you can likely knock off another $75-100.
 
Time for my unsolicited, and probably unappreciated advice.

For your first AR-15/M4 pattern long gun I would get something equipped as such:

1.) 5.56mm NATO 1:7” twist barrel, hard chrome lined, made from CMV 4150. Either button broached, or if I can come up with the extra coin, cold hammer forged. These days a good quality chrome lined barrel will deliver very good accuracy potential and they last longer than other options. Same for selecting the military grade barrel steel. Also look for the part to have been HP/MPI inspected or radiograph inspected.

2.) Bolt made from Carpenter 158 steel, shot peened, HP/MPI tested, with a tool steel extractor, current spec extractor spring, and spring insert or donut.

3.) Bolt carrier with a properly staked gas carrier key, if metal isn’t displaced over the screws it’s not properly staked.

4.) Properly staked castle nut on the receiver end plate. Loose receiver extensions are a range trip PITA that are easily avoidable if the carbine is assembled correctly.

Beyond that I’d prefer a mid length gas system if we’re talking about a 16” barrel.

Most of the other stuff is easy to change later if you’re on a tight budget. $800 is a tough budget in my opinion if you want a quality gun for running hard.

If you can stretch the budget up to $1300-$1500 you will get into some really well made guns with quality parts and assembly. That’s where BCM’s, DD’s, SIONICS Weapon Systems, and others that do a good job of making serious carbines kind of end up priced around. Colt is kind of an unknown right now, older ones are excellent, not sure about current guns since Colt is out sourcing a lot more than they used to according to some. Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) used to make some basic carbines of excellent quality but not sure if they still do, they’re mostly high end.

Good luck with your decision.
 
around $800ish.
1. Reliability of action.
2. Wide availability of ammo at reasonable prices
3. 2 inch groups at 100 yards. (Is that possible in an economy model of this platform?)
4. Largest game would be whitetail deer at 200ish yards (hunting with semis not yet legal in PA for deer)
5. Not excessively heavy. Maybe 6 - 8 pounds w/scope and mounts
6. Adequate for home defense. (I employ handguns currently for this job)
7. Suitable in the event we are ever forced from our homes in a national emergency. (not likely, and I really don't think that way much. But why not?)
Your criteria was similar to mine and I decided on 20" .223/5.56 AR (What I used in the Army) and 16" .300 BLK upper as both calibers use same magazines and bolt so all I had to do to change caliber was pop two pins.

(But then they had babies and my AR collection grew in numbers to include Pistol Caliber Carbines :D)

You can buy a complete .223/5.56 AR and .300 BLK upper for slightly more than your budget but this combination would fulfill all of your requirements.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes for .300 BLK
5. Yes
6. I initially switched from .223 to .300 BLK for home defense but now use 9mm AR carbines. 33 rounds of 9mm 124 gr JHP at almost .357 Magnum velocity is my primary home defense backed up by pistols.
(BTW, you can convert your .223/5.56 AR to 9mm by using 9mm upper and EndoMag to load 9mm in .223/5.56 magazines)
7. Just remember last several hurricanes and looting/robbery/rape/murder was REAL that media chose not to cover. Armed residents were able to defend themselves but unarmed residents became victims. Sad but true.

And I use CMMG 22LR conversion kits for cheap plinking fun with my ARs.
 
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I’d suggest if this is your first AR get an inexpensive one. The S&W that Gunny linked to is real nice. Not the cheapest but a nice gun. A PSA lower and upper is a cheaper option. Ruger, and others also make inexpensive options. So any of the brand names should be fine.

I’d say spend as little as possible on a basic 556 or 223 AR. Learn the platform, and what you like and dislike. Then decide if you want to upgrade or get a more expensive gun. Things like stocks are super easy to change. Triggers are a little harder but not tough. Upper parts are a bit harder but not hard.

One you do this you can decide if you want a 6.5 Grendel upper, a 300 Blackout or other caliber for hunting.

No matter what you do, don’t be in a rush to spend that money, and I’d say save a little more and you will have an unlimited number of options.

Oh and a word of caution. Once you get an AR, you’ll be addicted. Once you start changing parts, you’ll start thinking about a build. Once you build one, then you’ll want to do more builds. ARs are addictive!
 
I agree, it’s terms people use. “Assemble” is the correct term if you didn’t machine the parts.

Sheesh or the antis will try and outlaw milking machines and lathes and other tools.

On a serious note, a mill and lathe are on my list to buy. I’m learning Metal work and machining. Not so much to build weapons but to build cool stuff. That said it would be cool to say I’ve built parts on my AR
 
AK's are only 60% effective for home (sorry for the hyperbole but it's an interesting story and on-topic):

Man Uses AK-47 Against 5 Home Invaders, Killing 3 And Injuring 2

ScreenHunter_2194-Apr.-15-14.40-700x390.jpg

HOUSTON, TEXAS — A man fought for his life against not one, not two, but five armed men who broke into his home. This gun owner was prepared for a fight, and utilized his AK-47 to defend his home and his life.

Two masked men went into the home where the 20-year-old resident was. At first, he though it was a joke, but quickly realized that these armed men meant business.

When they demanded cash, the resident complied. At least, that’s what he wanted them to believe. He said that he was going for what they wanted and reached under the couch.

Instead of pulling out money, he instead pulled out his AK-47 and began shooting at the suspects.

http://concealednation.org/2019/04/...ok74WAIvdVBRPR8aST89w_NbpOSACpZ3FPofEeqZ7W3mg



 
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