Winchester 1873 recommendations

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gregp74

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I'm in the market for a Winchester '73 or one of the Italian clones. Right now I'm looking at either the case hardened short rifle from Winchester/Miroku or the deluxe short rifle sold by Cimarron (Uberti).

Actually looking at hanging this thing up in a room at the cabin that's got a bunch of railroad and 1800's stuff, but it won't just be for looks. I plan on taking it out back and shooting often.

I've read good things about both. I've read the Mirokus may be better made and seems the Uberti may have soft screws and some other things that'll require upgrades. I want something that's going to be good to go out of the box. I'm not planning on competing with this thing but do want it to be a good solid rifle. Either way I go I plan on getting it chambered in 357. Not historically accurate I know, but I've got a few pistols chambered in 357/38 and would like to keep the ammo situation easy.

Any suggestions would be welcome.
 
I’m no rifle expert but I do have a couple Winchester/Miroku 1892s and hope to one day pick up an 1873. I wouldn’t trade mine for anything. Mine are beautifully made.
 
I've been watching these too on gunbroker. I have seen a few uberti with faded or worn case hardened receivers (makes no sense).
That has me looking at the '66 yellowboy.
I have not had an uberti rifle, but I can vouch for their revolvers.
 
I've been watching these too on gunbroker. I have seen a few uberti with faded or worn case hardened receivers (makes no sense).
That has me looking at the '66 yellowboy.
I have not had an uberti rifle, but I can vouch for their revolvers.

Yeah I had one of their El Patron revolvers for a while in 45lc. It seemed well made but I ended up trading it for a Vaquero in 357 at some point.
 
Seems like the Mirokus are all out of stock at the moment. Would it be better to wait until those are around than to just get the Cimarron that's available now? I don't really mind waiting if it's better, but on the other hand my trigger finger is feeling itchy lol
 
I just called Past and Blast in Whitesboro, TX. They are the only LGS I frequent and are great guys to do business with. They have a current production Winchester 1873 (44-40) in stock. Their number is 903-564-5444.

I'm kind of looking for one in 357 I suppose that's an option too
 
The Ubertis are nice. I bought a Uberti 1873 SRC about 1992 and still have it, and it's still in good condition. I have two Miroku made 1892 style longarms, one a 1980s vintage Browning 1892 carbine in .44 magnum and a recent Winchester 1892 takedown rifle in .32-20.
I've only seen photos of Miroku's 1873. The Miroku has changed some minor things in the 1873s bolt for safety so they aren't EXACT repros of the originals, but do have the Winchester name. The Ubertis also have an internal minor change, and of course, no name of Winchester on the gun.
Both are good.
For your purpose I have a slight prejudice in favor of the Uberti, but either would serve you well.
 
I've been watching these too on gunbroker. I have seen a few uberti with faded or worn case hardened receivers (makes no sense).
That has me looking at the '66 yellowboy.
I have not had an uberti rifle, but I can vouch for their revolvers.
uberti makes a real good 66. the last one i had was perfect like the others i had. i did sell it tho, it was a very early one and they don;t make the toggles and some other parts anymore. the new ones are good to go.
 
i would get the 73 in 44-40. the 357 even with today's metals i think its to much for the action/togges. plus if you shoot bp the 44-40 is the best, it seals the chamber better then the others.
 
My Winchester/Miroku 1873 .357 carbine Is by far my favorite firearm. Out of the box it was flawless and a joy to shoot. I thought it couldn't be improved on until I added a Marble's tang sight. Winchester 1873 005.JPG
 
Seems like the Mirokus are all out of stock at the moment. Would it be better to wait until those are around than to just get the Cimarron that's available now? I don't really mind waiting if it's better, but on the other hand my trigger finger is feeling itchy lol

Miroku makes fine products and it may be the better quality rifle in some ways but the Cimarron is a far more accurate replica of the original 1873 Winchester. I personally shoot these a bunch in Cowboy action shooting and only own Cimarron/Uberti for the authenticity aspect, parts availability, etc.
 
I’m also a cowboy action shooter. The Uberti ‘73s are very popular and there are lots of aftermarket parts and factory parts available. Uberti was the only decent 1873 reproduction for years. They are not perfect and they are a little rough and oversprung out of the box but they can be made to run really smoothly and fast. There are also lots of choices in barrel length and type, stocks, finishes and chamberings.

The Winchester-Miroku has been around for several years now. They are smoother out of the box than a Uberti. The lever safety spring is too strong but that’s an easy fix. It has a slightly shorter stroke than a stock Uberti. At first there were no (or few) choices in configuration but that is changing. I thought the first blued rifles were a little plain but you can get nicer ones now. Street price is often a little higher than a comparable Uberti.

There are not many aftermarket parts for the Miroku. One company (Pioneer Gun Works) that was making short stroke kits has discontinued them. Some folks have experienced delays getting factory parts.

A local top shooter who is a very fast rifleman and has worn out several Ubertis tried a Miroku but went back to a Uberti because the cowboy gunsmiths know how to modify them to be run at a top shooter’s level. Most of we mere mortals don’t need to worry about that.

I know some very good shooters who run Miroku ‘73s in competition and do just fine.

If possible try them both. They are great rifles and either would suit but if you are looking for the better “out of the box” rifle I’d say the Miroku gets the nod.

Change that lever safety spring, though.
 
I have never owned a Miroku made 1873, but I did own a Browning B92 in .44 magnum made by Miroku back in the 80s. These are a fine firearm made of modern steels and with modern heat treatment of all parts. I would expect that a Miroku made 1873 replica would be the same.

While Uberti makes very nice looking replicas, both internally and externally, the internal parts are basically case hardened much like their revolvers, and so will be softer than the Miroku. My last Uberti 1866 short rifle had a breech bolt installed that had apparently been damaged by a fall to a concrete floor in the factory. Until I removed it and reshaped the lower lip on the bolt face the rifle would not close on a chambered round. The firing pin extension also had to be reshaped because the bevelled end of it was canted.
Finally, after some use the sear engagement changed and became rather mushy, indicating premature wear at what is a very high friction point.

Uberti owners seem to wax nostalgic about their rifles, but a Miroku is better I'm sure. And, the oft-mentioned aftermarket parts caution is irrelevant if you aren't going to trick out your Miroku with an aluminum carrier and a short stroke kit to make it a race gun.

As for caliber, it's up to you. Do you intend to reload for it? Does the cost of factory ammunition play a part in your decision?
If you don't plan to reload then .357 magnum is the least expensive factory ammunition available, compared to .44-40 and .45 Colt.
If you did plan to reload then .45 Colt is far easier to successfully reload than .44-40 which has a paper thin cartridge case and which suffers crushed cases in the process. .357 is also quite easy to reload.
On the other hand, if you don't intend to reload and aren't too concerned about ammo costs, then .44-40 IS the original cartridge and would be very appealing. And you did say that you intend to display it with 1800s and railroad memorabilia, so perhaps authenticity in the cartridge would be more suitable.

CAS shooters again often nostalgically tout the .44-40 as superior because they believe that it seals the chamber better than .45 Colt. However, I can attest that .45 Colt seals the chamber just fine with factory loads. Cowboy Action loads are often very much under-loaded, which is where the ".44-40 case seals better " song comes from. Again, it has a paper thin case so it would at mouse-fart pressures. The very minimal bottle-neck has nothing to do with it.

For your purposes, I would definitely buy the Miroku because it's going to work well and be defect-free right out of the box.
If you buy a Uberti / Cimarron rifle, it may or may not have issues. And CAS shooters have their Ubertis worked over by a smith anyway, and so tend to gloss over any problems that their rifles may have initially had out of the box.
 
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Besides the silly safety mechanism in the bolt and odd cosmetic things like the space between the barrel and mag tube, the biggest place I think the messed up with the Miroku is the shorter than original 1873 stroke.

The problem with it is it is not a short enough stroke for serious SASS competition but enough that it disqualifies the rifle to be used in more authentic action shooting like NCOWS. Now with the discontinuation of the short stroke parts for them they wind up not fitting in anywhere real well with action shooting. They limited themselves from a big part of the reproduction market and resale value for these type rifles. Even though it isn't the largest part of the gun sales market action shooting is definitely the part of the market that drives parts availability for these guns and a big part of determining price and demand in the resale market.

Miroku builds great guns and I have a few but for the reasons stated above I have no desire nor would I own one of their 1873 models. They are good guns but the designers really fouled up on that model, they should have stuck closer to the original Winchester design like Uberti, I predict if they had they had they would have a much larger presents at action shoots and have more aftermarket parts availability.
 
If you want .357 ability get the Miroku as they are stronger for that round IMHO. Both end up costing about the same new around here . I have both .
 
It might be more historically appropriate in something else but the 357/38 is cheaper and more importantly more common. Just thinking about the little country store down the road from the summer place they sell the basics. 22lr, 9mm, 45, 40, 38, 357, 223, 243, 30-30, 30-06, 308 and that's about it. I reckon I can go just about anywhere that sells ammo to find 38 or 357 and not break the bank. The older less common stuff maybe maybe not without visiting a big box store.

I've heard some people say the Miroku's are going to be stronger on the inside. Aesthetics-wise I don't think they look as good as some of the Cimarron's, but when it comes down to brass tacks, it doesn't matter how pretty a gun is if it doesn't work.
 
The problem with it is it is not a short enough stroke for serious SASS competition but enough that it disqualifies the rifle to be used in more authentic action shooting like NCOWS. Now with the discontinuation of the short stroke parts for them they limited themselves from a big part of the reproduction market and resale value for these type rifles. Even though it isn't the largest part of the gun sales market action shooting is definitely the part of the market that drives parts availability for these guns.

Long before CAS came into being, these reproductions along with the cartridge and black powder Old West revolvers were selling very well to Old West Aficionados. I was buying and using cap & ball sixguns and a 66 and 73 replica in the 1970s with no interest in ever shooting them in a competition. They remain just as popular today for the majority who will never shoot a CAS match.
For this reason, short stroke and race gun parts are irrelevant to the average purchaser.
IMHO CAS shooters tend to have a myopic view about replica guns.

For the OP and for many others, the Miroku is a higher quality rifle and a better choice.
 
I have the new Winchester in 357. It is a beautiful and well made gun. Extremely smooth and a nice trigger. I have not run any 38 special through it, but no issues so far with 357. I also have a Uberti (Cimarron) in 45 Colt. Both are very nice, but I would give the nod to the Winchester. You should be able to get the Winchester for around $1100. The Uberti runs a tad more around here.

My LGS tells me the one I'm looking at (Miroku/Win Short rifle, case hardened) is still out of stock in 357. Not available from Buds or anywhere online either at the moment, and I'm not sure what the most recent price was.

I do see the Cimarron deluxe case hardened short rifle is available for $1192 and change from Buds. Guessing it's probably similar (plus tax) locally.
 
Long before CAS came into being, these reproductions along with the cartridge and black powder Old West revolvers were selling very well to Old West Aficionados. I was buying and using cap & ball sixguns and a 66 and 73 replica in the 1970s with no interest in ever shooting them in a competition. They remain just as popular today for the majority who will never shoot a CAS match.
For this reason, short stroke and race gun parts are irrelevant to the average purchaser.
IMHO CAS shooters tend to have a myopic view about replica guns.

For the OP and for many others, the Miroku is a higher quality rifle and a better choice.

You quoted my post to say the same thing I said? but also stand by my statement that action shooting drives most aftermarket parts availability which there is hardly any for the Miroku. Which to me negates the better choice statement but to each his own.

The biggest thing for me is the Miroku just isn't a very good authentic replica when compared to an original so they aren't much for reenactment either. They have horrible grade school looking block letter stamping, you can read the Made in Japan from across the room, ugly barrel magazine tube gap, weird bolt extension with a mess of unnecessary parts in it to satisfy some lawyer. There were parts available to simplify that and make them more reliable but not sure if they are still available either so if any of that mess breaks you are depending on parts from Miroku.

They could have been a hit and missed the mark but as I said to each his own. I do know in my neck of the woods at gun shows etc, even though they are more rare the Miroku do not resale nearly as well as say a Cimarron or Taylors imported Uberti. I also notice Miroku new prices have actually dropped since introduction while Uberti prices tend to still climb with typical inflation.
 
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