LaPierre asked to resign

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Jeb Stuart said:
Just curious, How many liberal Politicians are for protecting the 2a rights? Just give me a estimate.
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Some, but very few. But that is a different topic. It makes them the opposition, not the enemy. It has nothing to do with wanting someone else to do their dirty work, someone else to do the fighting and then trying to shoot down the ones that do. It has nothing to do with feeling entitlement in all areas of life. And it is certainly not an indication of being unpatriotic. These are all attributes that you have ascribed to liberalism.

There is a reason why liberals don't care for the general proliferation of guns and it is fundamental to understanding liberal vs. conservative politics. One way to characterize liberals and conservatives is this: Liberals tend to look at every law, every trend, every movement as to how it would affect themselves. Conservatives tend to only see the affect on others. They don't ever see an onerous situation causing them a problem.

Here is an example, stop and frisk. Conservatives are all for stop and frisk, because they only see it happening to the "other", never to their own kind, and certainly never to themselves. They are too far above such ugliness to ever be affected. But liberals identify with the "other" and ask themselves what if that happened to me? How would I feel if I were stopped for no reason and frisked on the street? Hence conservatives are all for stop and frisk, and liberals are against it. Simple.

And then there are food stamps. What conservative could ever imagine needing food stamps? But liberals don't look at themselves, but at others. Sure some other folks need help getting enough food to eat. What difference does it make if they, themselves, never will?

Same with guns. Conservatives cannot imagine their own children being attacked in their elementary school. Liberals see the possibility quite clearly.

Obviously these are generalizations and not meant to offend. They are not 100% accurate, but the trends are real. Just different ways of thinking.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Wow, never heard that one before. I believe the NRA welcomes anyone who is supportive of the 2NA. At least in the area I live in. Sounds like something I would hear if I were to tune into CNN.
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No they do not. You cant run political ads and campaign demonizing the left and "liberals" as well as insert yourself with the right on social justice issues and then turn around and say that the NRA is welcoming the same people they just got finished insulting....
 
rpenmanparker said:
Some, but very few. But that is a different topic. It makes them the opposition, not the enemy. It has nothing to do with wanting someone else to do their dirty work, someone else to do the fighting and then trying to shoot down the ones that do. It has nothing to do with feeling entitlement in all areas of life. And it is certainly not an indication of being unpatriotic. These are all attributes that you have ascribed to liberalism.

There is a reason why liberals don't care for the general proliferation of guns and it is fundamental to understanding liberal vs. conservative politics. One way to characterize liberals and conservatives is this: Liberals tend to look at every law, every trend, every movement as to how it would affect themselves. Conservatives tend to only see the affect on others. They don't ever see an onerous situation causing them a problem.

Here is an example, stop and frisk. Conservatives are all for stop and frisk, because they only see it happening to the "other", never to their own kind, and certainly never to themselves. They are too far above such ugliness to ever be affected. But liberals identify with the "other" and ask themselves what if that happened to me? How would I feel if I were stopped for no reason and frisked on the street? Hence conservatives are all for stop and frisk, and liberals are against it. Simple.

And then there are food stamps. What conservative could ever imagine needing food stamps? But liberals don't look at themselves, but at others. Sure some other folks need help getting enough food to eat. What difference does it make if they, themselves, never will?

Same with guns. Conservatives cannot imagine their own children being attacked in their elementary school. Liberals see the possibility quite clearly.

Obviously these are generalizations and not meant to offend. They are not 100% accurate, but the trends are real. Just different ways of thinking.
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I agree with everything but what I emphasized. Conservatives do imagine that their children could be attacked at school. The disagreement is on what mesures or laws should be put in place to prevent that from happening.

Liberals want more laws put in place that would not have stopped these shooting from happening, and Conservatives what armed L.E. and teachers.
 
What ever you say Styx.
rpenmanparker said:
Some, but very few. But that is a different topic. It makes them the opposition, not the enemy. It has nothing to do with wanting someone else to do their dirty work, someone else to do the fighting and then trying to shoot down the ones that do. It has nothing to do with feeling entitlement in all areas of life. And it is certainly not an indication of being unpatriotic. These are all attributes that you have ascribed to liberalism.

There is a reason why liberals don't care for the general proliferation of guns and it is fundamental to understanding liberal vs. conservative politics. One way to characterize liberals and conservatives is this: Liberals tend to look at every law, every trend, every movement as to how it would affect themselves. Conservatives tend to only see the affect on others. They don't ever see an onerous situation causing them a problem.

Here is an example, stop and frisk. Conservatives are all for stop and frisk, because they only see it happening to the "other", never to their own kind, and certainly never to themselves. They are too far above such ugliness to ever be affected. But liberals identify with the "other" and ask themselves what if that happened to me? How would I feel if I were stopped for no reason and frisked on the street? Hence conservatives are all for stop and frisk, and liberals are against it. Simple.

And then there are food stamps. What conservative could ever imagine needing food stamps? But liberals don't look at themselves, but at others. Sure some other folks need help getting enough food to eat. What difference does it make if they, themselves, never will?

Same with guns. Conservatives cannot imagine their own children being attacked in their elementary school. Liberals see the possibility quite clearly.

Obviously these are generalizations and not meant to offend. They are not 100% accurate, but the trends are real. Just different ways of thinking.
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My Gosh man, obviously you do not know a thing about Conservatives. What conservative could ever imagine needing food stamps? Maybe you are the one that is narrow minded. Conservatives cannot imagine their children being attacked while at school? Lol, what nonsense. Sounds to me, you have some serious issues on Judging others. Maybe you are not as squeaky clean as you like to make yourself out to be. I have met many people down on their luck and needed food stamps. And guess what? Some were conservative and any one with common sense knows that crap could happen on the turn of a dime. I know very well. Got seriously injured and lost every thing. Please do not get so smug with me.

You say what difference does it make to them? That is so insulting. My Son each year organizes a drive to feed the homeless. And very Proactive. After High School before he was to go off to college, saved his money and with a few others took off to Boliva to help rebuild a Orphanage. Then came up and told me he had a few things to do before going to college. Said he feels like he owes the great country something. So he joined the National guard.
Sorry Dude, you are every bit as prejudice as anyone else.
And please quite with the "Obviously these are generalizations and not meant to offend." Yes, Robert your comments ARE made to offend.

*Ps Robert, I have been stopped and frisked. The only difference was I understood the officer was just doing his job. And for the record. Support the Police.

How about we get back to the NRA and the second Amendment rights FOR ALL!

The people my "Conservative Son" went to heip.

EDtvmsy.jpg
 
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Jeb Stuart said:
What ever you say Styx.


My Gosh man, obviously you do know a thing about Conservatives. What conservative could ever imagine needing food stamps? Maybe you are the one that is narrow minded. Conservatives cannot imagine their children being attacked while at school? Lol, what nonsense. Sounds to me, you have some serious issues on Judging others. Maybe you are not as squeaky clean as you like to make yourself out to be. I have met many people down on their luck and needed food stamps. And guess what? Some were conservative and any one with common knows that crap could happen on the turn of a dime. I know very well. Got seriously injured and lost every thing. Please do not get so smug with me.

You say what difference does it make to them? That is so insulting. My Son each year organizes a drive to feed the homeless. And very Proactive. After High School before he was to go off to college, but saved his money and with a few others took off to Boliva to help rebuild a Orphanage. Then came up and told me he had a few things to do before going to college. Said he feels like he owes the great country something. So he joined the National guard.
Sorry Dude, you are every bit as prejudice as anyone else.
And please quite with the "Obviously these are generalizations and not meant to offend." Yes, Robert your comments ARE made to offend.

*Ps Robert, I have been stopped and frisked. The only difference was I understood the officer was just doing his job. And for the record. Support the Police.
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Generalizations are always risky. If I offended you, I apologize. I have been honing that theory for a long time and thought I had it perfected. Maybe not so much. I will give it some more consideration. I think the way I expressed it works a little better when limited only to politicians. Seriously, no offense intended.
 
That’s just great...the one major nationally recognized force for our rights has major publicized infighting going on.

North, LaPierre,
I don’t give a damn what the problem is, FIX IT! Do it now!
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Interesting to see who are the Liberals on this forum and anti NRA. People looking for every excuse to disparage the one organization that are in fights every single day in everysingle state to protect the 2nd amendment rights. Yes, we all would love to see the NRA just promote safety and family outing etc. But that is not the real world. The Real world is Bloomberg and ILK. The real world is the fact that the NRA is huge organization and like any will have some bad apples, it is part of nature. Yes, you weed these out just like you weed out your own garden.
There are some folks on this very forum that want to own and enjoy this fine sport, want to protect their families and enjoy all the rights of the 2nd Amendments. But like the liberals they are, they want someone else to do their dirty work, someone else to do the fighting and they try and shoot down the ones that do. They feel some entitlement in all areas of life. I support the NRA and if you do not, or not ready to fight, and support, then just get the hell out of the way.
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Conservative and liberal are labels and should be avoided. There are a lot of independent voters on this forum who are rec shooters and hunters. I gladly support the SAF and the NRA but I won't donate to their political arm. I'm not even sure my dues are going to the NRA and not the ILA. I've tried talking to the NRA representative at our range but he's never at our meetings and won't return my phone calls or emails. They don't seem to have a problem with asking me for money however.

I also support a private gun range with both dues and labor. I'm also willing to train anyone in the safe use of firearms on my own dime and have in the past. I generally take at least one guest to my range every week. I've owned firearms for 45 years.

To label people liberal just because they don't like the NRA's politics would be painting with a pretty broad brush. I fall somewhere on the right of the political spectrum and mostly identify with the Libertarian party. I'm not a single issue voter.

In before the lock.:D
 
rpenmanparker said:
I don’t know how you can say that. He is written in the show to be so far right, he is in danger of falling off the edge of the flat Earth.
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This just shows how far apart we are in opinions as Americans. I think Tom Selleck's character in that show is a moderate. Of course I grew up when John Kennedy was president and he would be a right wing fanatic by today's liberal standards.
 
AlexanderA said:
The irony here is that LaPierre started out, and continued to be until recently, joined at the hip with Ackerman McQueen. I'm beginning to suspect that all this is Kabuki theater, for certain parties to plausibly disavow each other in view of the pending lawsuits.
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Yeah, rats leaving a sinking ship. I have a feeling the NRA is in deeper legal trouble than most realize and it probably has to do with their accounting practices.
 
rpenmanparker said:
Generalizations are always risky. If I offended you, I apologize. I have been honing that theory for a long time and thought I had it perfected. Maybe not so much. I will give it some more consideration. I think the way I expressed it works a little better when limited only to politicians. Seriously, no offense intended.
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Robert, contrary to the way speech goes in politics etc. is not always the true self. Politics has a way of bringing out the ugly in all People. I take no offense to anything you have said. Yes, we can have a heated argument but I have no doubt you are a good man, and one I would gladly be friends with.
By the way, that group of Young people that took off to go to Boliva, was a mixture of Liberals and Conservatives. Obviously not concerned with Politics but both concerned for a greater good.
Have a good day my Friend.
 
Those of you who are against traditional American social values are upset with how the majority of NRA members vote. It just happens that many of us who support the Second Amendment also support traditional American values. You liberals are the ones that hijack every organization and attempt to turn it into your own political movement. You have ruined the Boy Scouts and the bathrooms. The NRA isn't against you guys but a lot of us that support the NRA are not exactly hoping you prevail. It's ironic that politics cannot be discussed on THR when it is the left that injects politics into every part of life.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
And if they just focus on "gun stuff" who will do the fighting in the Courts? Lol, without the NRA our 2A rights would not last 6 more months. I find it amazing that some folks just cannot see our understand that this a battle and a Political battle. So again Elkins, who will do the fighting in the courts across the country?
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The NRA. That’s what “gun stuff” is.

Casefull said:
Those of you who are against traditional American social values are upset with how the majority of NRA members vote. It just happens that many of us who support the Second Amendment also support traditional American values. You liberals are the ones that hijack every organization and attempt to turn it into your own political movement.
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This attitude is part of the problem. The NRA wasn’t chartered to promote values, it was chartered to protect gun rights. The NRA has been hijacked by people wanting it to be a social activist group. I don’t want the NRA doing political activism against either left or right. I want them doing activism against bad gun laws.
 
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frogfurr said:
Is the GOA going to save us? Probably not because they will have to deal with the same infighting the NRA is dealing with now.
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The GOA finances are locked up fighting the Bump-Stock ban in Court. They are issuing pleas for donations as their lawsuit is proving to be more expensive than they realized. Since the lawsuit is going to drag on through the Presidential election next year how much money are they going to be able to contribute towards getting President Trump and pro-2A Senators reelected.

However if comments on the THR are reflective of all gun owners in general then we will be seeing a Democrat President and a Democrat controlled Congress.

I wonder how many THR Members realize that 34 Senate seats are up for re-election. 22 Republicans and 12 Democrats are up for re-election. While the general prediction is the elections favor the Republicans the Democrats only need to flip three seats to control the Senate if a Democrat also wins the Presidency. (The Vice-President casts the deciding vote in case of a tie). With the help of the RINO’s restrictive gun control laws will quickly and easily be passed.

The Democrats who will have to defend seats in states Trump won are Sens. Doug Jones of Alabama and Gary Peters of Michigan. The Republicans up for re-election in states Hillary Clinton won in the 2016 election are Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Cory Gardner of Colorado. In addition there is the open Senate special election in Arizona.

How likely is it that the Democrats will win the Presidency and the Senate?

Well, how many people thought Trump would beat Hillary?
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Robert, contrary to the way speech goes in politics etc. is not always the true self. Politics has a way of bringing out the ugly in all People. I take no offense to anything you have said. Yes, we can have a heated argument but I have no doubt you are a good man, and one I would gladly be friends with.
By the way, that group of Young people that took off to go to Boliva, was a mixture of Liberals and Conservatives. Obviously not concerned with Politics but both concerned for a greater good.
Have a good day my Friend.
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Thanks. Good kids can find a way to get along when they are doing good things. You should be very proud of them.
 
My concern, settng aside exactly what the scope of the NRA’s activities should be, is can they effectively counter multiple organizations that have become increasingly well-funded and organized in recent years? Infighting and distractions lesson that ability IMO. Sometimes you just need to eliminate the problem area, cutting generously, and move forward.

Years ago we used to take comfort in the fact that the opposition was a thin veneer of organizations, I think that has changed.
 
I support and donate to them all NRA, GOA, 2AF. Wayne has been leading the NRA for 30 years and hasn't done such a bad job. IDK what issues he had with Ollie but I hope they are resolved such that NRA continues the fight. As far as liberals vs. conservatives, I see very few liberals that want to protect the 2A (at least publicly) and would not want to give that side any more power.They vote as a block.
 
My local ranges are a complete mess. I mean just horrible with every rule in the book broken. The LGS just cannot seem to stop it. They have called the Police over and over. People come in high, loud, constant use of cell phones even in when a big sign says do not use them. And trust me when I say these folks do not support the NRA.

Now I have a private club. And one of the requirements is to be a member of good standing with the NRA. Other than proven safety skills, there are no other. And they welcome all. And quess what. The Place is about the safest place you can shoot. Every body is respectfully of the range, rules, and each other. Lol, the only time I really am glad some folks are NOT members of the NRA. It is a piece of heaven. There are no riff raff. No jerks, no drugs, etc. Just like a family NRA event that I went to years ago. We have Boy Scout shoots, Womens tournaments etc.
May God Bless the NRA!

Sorry, there is one other, be a member of Virginia Shooting Sports.

lHP7L0O.png
 
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Casefull said:
Those of you who are against traditional American social values are upset with how the majority of NRA members vote. It just happens that many of us who support the Second Amendment also support traditional American values. You liberals are the ones that hijack every organization and attempt to turn it into your own political movement. You have ruined the Boy Scouts and the bathrooms. The NRA isn't against you guys but a lot of us that support the NRA are not exactly hoping you prevail. It's ironic that politics cannot be discussed on THR when it is the left that injects politics into every part of life.
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Your post would be a lot more meaningful if you used the quote/reply buttons. Who, specifically, are you speaking to? And how, specifically, has your bathroom been ruined by liberals?
 
BSA1 said:
The GOA finances are locked up fighting the Bump-Stock ban in Court. They are issuing pleas for donations as their lawsuit is proving to be more expensive than they realized. Since the lawsuit is going to drag on through the Presidential election next year how much money are they going to be able to contribute towards getting President Trump and pro-2A Senators reelected.
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Your first sentence is about a pro-gun group fighting what is tantamount to gun control by executive order. Your second sentence is about re-electing "pro-gun" politicians, including the POTUS responsible for the GOA lawsuit. He can't be that pro-2A, if you believe as I do that actions > words.
 
However if comments on the THR are reflective of all gun owners in general then we will be seeing a Democrat President and a Democrat controlled Congress.
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This is straight out of the current NRA playbook. (Give us all of your money and your first born child or this will happen.)

What I'm seeing in some of the posts here is that everybody hasn't drunk the cool-aid.
 
Casefull said:
Those of you who are against traditional American social values are upset with how the majority of NRA members vote. It just happens that many of us who support the Second Amendment also support traditional American values. You liberals are the ones that hijack every organization and attempt to turn it into your own political movement. You have ruined the Boy Scouts and the bathrooms. The NRA isn't against you guys but a lot of us that support the NRA are not exactly hoping you prevail. It's ironic that politics cannot be discussed on THR when it is the left that injects politics into every part of life.
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I'm not upset about how anyone votes. If you happen to be a citizen you should vote and let the political will of the voting public be enacted. That's how a republic works. Traditional social values change over time. The political landscape in this country changes due to an influx of immigrants and peoples social values over time. Immigrants who become citizens have the right to vote. Which traditional social values are you referring to? The ones we had when I was a kid in the 60's, or the ones my grandfather had around 1900, or the ones my ancestors had in 1760 when they migrated to Virginia from Ireland?

Actually the NRA, in it's traditional pre 1975 not-for-profit form wasn't a political organization. They have however become a PAC or political organization, or at least the largest part of the org. So if an org. turns political one might expect it's members that want little to do with it's politics want to opt out or at least change it. The same with the Boy Scouts. If one feels the org. has morphed into something that doesn't represent their social values then it's time to move on. I have a feeling that's what a lot of NRA members are doing right now, voting with their feet.

I can guarantee you if every NRA member had a ballot and was able to vote they wouldn't be in the mess they are now. Instead it's become a fat cats political money machine that has very little to do with the average gun owner in this country, traditional social values aside.
 
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Danger, Danger Will Robinson.

The thread is about the problems surfacing in the NRA. Discussing bathrooms and Boy Scouts - an obvious diversion into social policies on sexuality is not going to allow this thread to continue. The discussion of actual liberal vs. conservative values is all a touch sketchy. While arguing that the NRA has pushed a conservative agenda and that some of you think that being conservative is mandatory to being a progun person is acceptable, the actual issues - maybe not for here.

My two cents - there is a problem of supporting the organization and supporting specific personnel. We can support the mission but when incompetence abounds and policies are not productive, then critiquing them does not mean a lack of support to the cause. That such an uproar occurred suggests that the top leadership is not doing there job.

My second cent - I've seen comments that this is a plot by Bloomberg or such. I have no doubt that folks opposed to the RKBA will run with this. However, remember that Wayne praised Ollie and said that appointing him would bring fear to the hearts of those antigunners. I thought that was ridiculous and a bad choice. Either Wayne was stupid and befuddled by Ollie being a deep agent of Bloomberg or there is something to be said in a web of financial mismanagement at the top. Take your choice.

So let's stay on track. It is clear that many folks want a diverse political world view being acceptable and demanding one political world view is counterproductive, unless you care about that more than the 2nd Amend.
 
psyopspec said:
Your first sentence is about a pro-gun group fighting what is tantamount to gun control by executive order. Your second sentence is about re-electing "pro-gun" politicians, including the POTUS responsible for the GOA lawsuit. He can't be that pro-2A, if you believe as I do that actions > words.
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I did not realize until after the BATF change it’s ruling on Bump-Fire Stocks how many Americans own them. I considered them to be a niche item owned by a small segment of shooters. It appears that both President Trump and myself made the same faulty assumption. Given how popular AR’s I failed to realize how many AR shooters own Bump-Fire stocks.

I am extremely pro-2A and against almost all gun restrictions but the reality is we as gun owners were going to take a hit on the greatest mass shooting in our Countries history. The President may have figured it was best to cut our loses with the ban and get the issue off of the table so it can not be used against Republicans in the upcoming elections. In this respect he was successful.

The NRA is catching a lot of flak for not coming out stronger against a Bump-Fire ban. I personally think they made the right decision as three Gun Control bills have passed the House and are currently tied up in the Senate. There are a lot of attacks across the county against Gun Rights and the NRA, GOA and other groups must pick their fights carefully. We can already see the drain on the GOA’s finances as a result of their lawsuit.

The NRA is having difficulties and is under a well funded and organized attacks.

So you and other former Bump-Fire stock owners will have to decide whether it is in your best interests to abandon the NRA and to vote for one of the other candidates for President. That is only a deeply personal secret decision you can make.
 
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