NPR story on guns stolen from vehicles

I mean, this (guns getting stolen out of cars) is absolutely a thing that is happening, and a lot of those guns do feed the supply of guns available to people who cannot legally possess firearms.

The idea of criminalizing being the victim of a crime is repugnant to my instinctive sense of justice, though. Lots of computers (personal and business alike) get hacked and then used as "zombie" computers to propagate more malware or otherwise facilitate cybercrime, all without the knowledge of the computer owner. Should we criminally penalize them for not having better firewalls or antivirus software? If someone breaks into my house and steals tools which they then use for further breaking and entering, should I be prosecuted for failure to secure my tools? If someone embezzles money from a bank account and then uses that money to buy drugs or take out a hit contract on someone else, should the embezzlement victim be held responsible? I just have a viscerally negative reaction to this approach, and that reaction is not special to guns.

It's the era of "criminal victims" and "victimized criminals".

NPR with a story about those stupid people that have guns, what a surprise.

I wonder who they would blame if some guys stole a few airplanes and flew them in to some large buildings? Probably the same people plus George W Bush of course.
Why do my tax dollars fund NPR?

Fine Figure of a Man said:

NPR with a story about those stupid people that have guns, what a surprise.

I wonder who they would blame if some guys stole a few airplanes and flew them in to some large buildings? Probably the same people plus George W Bush of course.
Why do my tax dollars fund NPR?

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I actually heard the story this morning during my commute. It really wasn't that biased and provided some good information. Tenn passed a law that lets people carry guns in their car without a CCW permit, just as they can at home. But this leads to people leaving their guns in their cars when they get to their destinations because they still can't carry concealed unless they have a permit.

Yes, NPR spoke to someone who wanted to punish those that don't properly secure their firearm, I think it was actually one of the co-sponsors of the original bill allowing loaded guns in vehicles. But they also spoke to someone on the other side that is against punishing law abiding citizens. They also talked about the slow movement towards Constitutional carry in this country. Overall it was a pretty fair story. Honestly, I can't believe there are that many people that don't even lock their cars, especially if there's a gun inside.

bassjam said:

I actually heard the story this morning during my commute. It really wasn't that biased and provided some good information. Tenn passed a law that lets people carry guns in their car without a CCW permit, just as they can at home. But this leads to people leaving their guns in their cars when they get to their destinations because they still can't carry concealed unless they have a permit.

Yes, NPR spoke to someone who wanted to punish those that don't properly secure their firearm, I think it was actually one of the co-sponsors of the original bill allowing loaded guns in vehicles. But they also spoke to someone on the other side that is against punishing law abiding citizens. They also talked about the slow movement towards Constitutional carry in this country. Overall it was a pretty fair story. Honestly, I can't believe there are that many people that don't even lock their cars, especially if there's a gun inside.

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Fair or not, I shouldn't have to support them with my tax dollars.

One easy solution would be to eliminate -- or at least drastically cut down the numbers of -- "gun free" zones that force citizens to leave their guns in their vehicles. Of course, we know this will never happen.

Old Dog said:

One easy solution would be to eliminate -- or at least drastically cut down the numbers of -- "gun free" zones that force citizens to leave their guns in their vehicles. Of course, we know this will never happen.

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While I 100% agree, the issue in this particular story isn't gun free zones, it's that people without CC permits are able to legally carry a loaded gun for self defense in their car in Tenn. But they have to leave the gun in the car when they exit the vehicle, because they don't have a CC permit. Criminals know this, so they are targeting cars hoping to find guns inside. The fix in this instance, is Constitutional Carry.


To your first point, this story did finally convince me to buy a steel gun vault that bolts in my truck. I've just been using my lockable center console for the few times I need to leave my gun behind to enter a bank or school, but anyone with a pry bar could still pop the lid open.

Yeah, I got that the focus of the NPR story was on Tennessee, but other recent news services spotlighting this issue come from around the country, where most who leave firearms in vehicles do so because they either know (or believe) that they cannot enter a business or office with their firearm.

bassjam said:

for the few times I need to leave my gun behind to enter a bank or school,

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You can't carry a gun in a bank in Ohio? That's peculiar.

My state also allows CPL holders to keep their guns on their person when dropping off or picking up their children from school (a more recent change to the law).

Plenty of people have a "car gun" that just lives in their cars. That's just common. Should people do that? IDK - I don't.

I agree with the article, no gun zones that require me to unholster and leave my gun in the car are completely ridiculous.

That was their point right?

I listened to that story twice this morning.

The one thing that struck me most often was their failure to reinforce the idea of LOCK YOUR DAMN CAR. Most of the thefts they mentioned were out of vehicles which were not locked. That's just idiocy, especially if you have any valuables (such as a firearm) inside.

Sure, someone can break my window to get inside. They can break a window in my home to get inside of that as well. Neither are as easy as simply walking through an unlocked door and are far more likely to attract attention if there's anyone around.

I worked a lot of auto burglaries way back when I was trapped in a mall security job. The most common by far were those were the driver did not bother to lock their cars. Who would look twice at them even while they are in the act of stealing? Bust a window out however and if someone sees you they are a lot more likely to notice and perhaps call the cops.

Of the cars that someone actually broke a window to get into virtually every time it was because someone had left something in plain sight that appeared to be valuable. Thieves go for the easy targets. If the car is locked and has nothing inside that they can see which appears to be valuable chances are they'll move on down the line to find an easier, more obvious target.

It was a typical NPR piece carefully shaded towards a particular (anti-gun) viewpoint. They've been doing this for decades. They know how to play the game.

bassjam said:

Tenn passed a law that lets people carry guns in their car without a CCW permit, just as they can at home. But this leads to people leaving their guns in their cars when they get to their destinations because they still can't carry concealed unless they have a permit.

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And THAT is one of the strong reasons that TN should get on board with constitutional carry, but the zoo animals (RINOS) are stopping it.

The problem is the thief. Yes, people should lock their cars and be a bit smarter. However, that does not give another permission to steal something.

This thought process is about like saying a woman is asking to be attacked or cat called because she dressed a certain way.

I understand that I am not responsible for the criminal actions of a criminal. If somebody breaks into my car that is 100% on them.

Having said that, I know that car burglaries are common. I've heard too many cops on too many forums talking about how many times they've been to a car burglary and the thief found a gun in the glove box or in the center console or under the seat not to know that I should take precautions against it. I believe that it's incumbent on me to take reasonable precautions to mitigate a known risk.

There really isn't any place that I go to on a regular basis where I'm required to disarm before I go into the building. If I do go someplace where I have to disarm there's a steel lock box cabled to the frame in my car and that's where I lock my gun.

The other thing that I've noticed almost every time this discussion comes up is somehow people who leave their gun secured in their car because they're required to do so to enter an NPE are somehow conflated with people who have a "truck gun" that lives in the door panel of their vehicle and isn't secured by anything more than locking the car doors.

I'm sorry but in my opinion routinely leaving a firearm of any type unsecured in your car is a stupid thing to do.

That doesn't mean that I think you should be held criminally liable if a thief breaks into your car and steals it. It just means that I'll tell you you're an idiot when you come in b**** to me about it.

Old Dog said:

You can't carry a gun in a bank in Ohio? That's peculiar.

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Totally legal unless the bank has a "No guns" sign conspicuously posted at the entrance.

Pro or anti, there is still common sense. If a firearm is left in a vehicle in these times, it should not be in plain view and the vehicle should be locked - there are lots of people in this country that steal whether we like it or not.
It is likened to the mentality of pedestrian traffic in a parking lot - they have the right-of-way and some very bold and arrogant people push that right to the extreme. Yes you can walk out in front of me at will, you have the right-of-way; and yes if I hit you, you will sue me and you will win. However in the meantime, how does that 6,000 pound truck feel sitting on top of you. There is still common sense even when the lines of right and wrong get blurred.

Further thought: There's a strange dynamic at play in the thinking of a lot of people who want to see more gun control as a way to control crime.* They view guns as being as "choke point" on more serious forms of criminality. Guns "must be" an essential ingredient in X or Y crime, so we could eliminate X or Y crime if we just prevented the people who commit X or Y from getting their hands on guns. That's their starting assumption.

But, as most people here know, and as stories like this demonstrate, keeping a committed criminal from obtaining a firearm is really difficult. This would logically suggest a re-thinking of the use of guns as a "choke point" for crime control. Somehow, though, the light bulb never comes on for a lot of people, because they simply never re-examine their starting assumption.

*Yes, I know that there are some who favor gun control as a means to control the population or for other, broader reasons. But a lot of people just (mistakenly) think that guns enable a lot of crime that wouldn't otherwise happen, and that's why they favor gun control.

bassjam said:

I've just been using my lockable center console for the few times I need to leave my gun behind to enter a bank or school

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Why would you leave your gun behind to enter a bank?

Ohen Cepel said:

The problem is the thief. Yes, people should lock their cars and be a bit smarter. However, that does not give another permission to steal something.
This thought process is about like saying a woman is asking to be attacked or cat called because she dressed a certain way.

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No one is suggesting that it does. That doesn't matter though. If people lock their doors they're less likely to have things stolen out of their vehicles and houses. The fact that it's the thief's "fault" is not much consolation when the theft could have been prevented by simply locking the door.

I take the view that having a gun carries responsibility with it. If it's lost, it's not a purse, it's not a pair of sunglasses. We all know what it's capable of, especially in the wrong hands. So I do believe we as gun owners have to be more vigilant, be it in a house with kids, or a vehicle. Leaving a gun in an unlocked car, as far as I'm concerned, is negligent. Compound it by leaving it in a spot where it's visible, and I think you're almost to the point of criminal negligence.

This is not the same era of 40 years ago, where in certain areas you could keep a rifle in a truck, hanging on your rear window, and nobody touched it. It's a different age and we have to act differently, too. Things are happening every day, we see it on the news, and we're certainly not helping ourselves by feeding into it. The person doing the act is the criminal, but we shouldn't be the enabler.

GFZ's have created a lot of the problem, but as responsible gun owners it's our responsibility to do what we reasonably can to keep possession of our guns. A locked door helps, but we all know that we should do more to secure our gun in our vehicle when we can't carry it. Don't be cheap, lazy or complacent. Take the extra step to at least make it a challenge and the typical smash and grab thief will move on after just taking your sunglasses.

I don't have a problem with the obvious message of the story. The laws in Tenn. have produced a situation that makes it convenient for citizens to carry in their vehicles without a permit that allows for carry outside their vehicles, and the result is an increase in the number of firearms stolen from vehicles. Nor do I have an issue with the suggestion that people who have firearms in their vehicles should take steps to better secure such weapons. But they presented no evidence that thefts have increased the number of armed criminals (is it cheaper to have a kid grab a gun from a car than to have someone make a straw purchase to arm a criminal? Are three fewer straw purchases?), nor was there a suggestion that the thefts have had an impact on overall violent crime statistics, or that the legislation allowing vehicle carry hasn't made the people of Tenn. safer.

bearcreek said:

No one is suggesting that it does. That doesn't matter though. If people lock their doors they're less likely to have things stolen out of their vehicles and houses. The fact that it's the thief's "fault" is not much consolation when the theft could have been prevented by simply locking the door.

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Based on the 200 or so car burglaries I know about in the past few years, locking your vehicle with a hidden gun is not enough in my professional and personal opinion. The top 3 places a burglar looks for a gun are the 1) glove box, 2) center console and 3) door panel. In that order. Even with a locked car door, a window can be broken with quite literally any object a criminal could find. I have even known criminals to break car windows with trash found at the very home the car is parked at to break inside. That is just insult to injury: a criminal using your own trash to break into your car to steal your firearm.

A gun hobby is not cheap. Even the cheapest routes: a $300 gun and a few boxes of ammo is expensive. Cheapest lock box I know of is $20 at most sporting and big box stores. There is no excuse for not adding another layer of preventative security to a firearm in a car.

Right now Harbor Freight has a coupon for the lock boxes, with the cables, for 14 bucks. Bought 2 yesterday, to add to the ones I already have.

Where I live, at one time (not that long ago) most trucks had a gun rack in the back windshield, and during hunting season most of them had a gun or two in them.

What has changed?
And how do we fix it it?

The gun hasn’t changed, trucks are more secure than they used to be.

So why focus on guns and security?
Because no one wants to address the real problems.

My 2¢ worth just what you paid for it.