Any love for S&W Autos?

Had a couple 908's----first one was very accurate ---the second one would barely hit the broad side of a barn-----later had a CS9 and CS45 both were so so.

Really really really wanted a 3913 but it just wasn't meant to be----either one would be available and I didn't have the cash or I had the money and couldn't find one.

Had a few SD's and M&P's over the last 10 years or so---actually liked the SD's more because the trigger wouldn't throw me off target like the M&P's

Currently have a Shield 9---2 M&P 4in 2.0 9mm Compacts---and a new 1.0 M&P .40 that I just picked up-the test shell casing indicates a 2015 manufacture and the trigger is much better than my earlier 1.0 pistols.

i always loved the 39-2 and i'd love to play with a 439!

I guess there isn't a 4th generation. For some reason I thought there was.

Is the 3rd generation better than the second generation models?

SD9VE and M&P Shield fan here. Both 9mm. Love me some S&W action.

peacebutready said:

I guess there isn't a 4th generation. For some reason I thought there was.

Is the 3rd generation better than the second generation models?

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The Gen 3 was the third improvement made to the style of simi autos S&W were making. Smith then switch gears and built a totally different handgun which was a Striker Fire pistol, The Sigma. The bad thing is that it was such a close copy of a Glock that Glock suited suited them. Smith changed the Sigma and continued to sell it with great success. Updates were made over the years and it is now called the SD series of pistols.
The M&P series of pistols was Smiths entry into the upper end market. They spent over $40,000 just to design the grip frame. They made a few upgrades to the M&P line to improve the trigger. The M&P 2.0 was the latest update and has been doing great.
I think the reason Smith never made a Gen4 to the older pistols is because the market was changing.

I vaguely recall them characterizing some minor improvements as the 4th generation, but it wasn't quite across the line. The longer-dwell-time TSWs maybe?

Or was that just marketing for a bit but not a serious generational change?

MHO, the 1st two generations were superior to the 3rd generation. Gen3 was a cost saving change, using plastic grips, instead of the three piece wood and metal arrangement of the 1st two generations.

I love my 5906. That big fat block like grip really soaks up the recoil. It just keeps going. I haven't had a bobble with it yet.

AIM Surplus has a few trade ins for sale:
https://aimsurplus.com/smith-wesson-model-5903-9mm-handgun-shooter-grade
https://aimsurplus.com/smith-wesson-model-6906-9mm-caliber-pistol
https://aimsurplus.com/leo-trade-in-smith-wesson-4006tsw-40sw-pistol
https://aimsurplus.com/leo-trade-in-smith-wesson-4013tsw-40sw-pistol

GunnyUSMC said:

The Gen 3 was the third improvement made to the style of simi autos S&W were making. Smith then switch gears and built a totally different handgun which was a Striker Fire pistol, The Sigma. The bad thing is that it was such a close copy of a Glock that Glock suited suited them. Smith changed the Sigma and continued to sell it with great success. Updates were made over the years and it is now called the SD series of pistols.
The M&P series of pistols was Smiths entry into the upper end market. They spent over $40,000 just to design the grip frame. They made a few upgrades to the M&P line to improve the trigger. The M&P 2.0 was the latest update and has been doing great.
I think the reason Smith never made a Gen4 to the older pistols is because the market was changing.

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Yes, the SD series. The trigger is heavy but there are aftermarket triggers and springs to change that. They look good to my eyes.

Yes, the market changed to striker fire, polymer pistols. They're much cheaper to manufacture.

P5 Guy said:

MHO, the 1st two generations were superior to the 3rd generation. Gen3 was a cost saving change, using plastic grips, instead of the three piece wood and metal arrangement of the 1st two generations.

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I know there was a model 910 or 915 that was a cost savings change. I haven't heard of the whole generation being a cost saving change.

The Sigma series of guns was launched in 1994 as a direct response to the increasing adoption of Glock's as a police service sidearm. It was S&W's attempt to counter that and stop the devastating losses they were having in the leo market, a market they dominated for generations. S&W was already under pressure in their core market from Beretta and Sig during the mid 80s. With the arrival of Glock and their aggressive marketing of the polymer framed gun S&W was delivered a body blow that led to the demise of the 3rd generation guns. With a few exceptions, S&W retired that line of guns entirely by 2005 for the M&P line. They bet the house on them and won the risk.

S&W began to make 1911s in 2002 also, indirectly in response to Glock. 1911s have been and still are a newer part of what they do and make a profit off it.

But make no mistake Glock's rise drove S&W into a crisis. They dumped an entire line of pistols and began another to respond and thrive. The M&P line is one of Glock's chief rivals in the U.S. The economy line of the revised Sigma (the SD, SD9VE, etc.) also do well.

But third gen and second gen guns remained in the holsters of leos around the country. Till recently, like a few months, I could still see them in the holsters of officers out my way and with the CHP. These were well made guns fit for duty use. They still are.

Cheaper manufacturing or not, 3rd Gen guns had superior ergonomics and trigger pulls.

I also have never heard 3rd gen guns were cost saving measures. I can imagine they made manufacturing more efficient and that saved money, but they seem like just better guns all around.

Adjustable sights on the 1/2 gen guns were nuts, for example. The front sight fell off the S&W entry into JSAAP... repeatedly! They needed a general design scrubbing, and got it in the 3rd gen. Good stuff.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566102

The metal part on the 1st & 2nd generation won't break when dropped. More moulded plastic parts means a less expensive product. Also weren't MIM parts used on 3rd gen guns?

The breakage of the original Gen 3 grips was never really a big issue, but they did change materials and offered a free replacement of the old ones just to prevent the remote possibilities of a failure. Replacements are still available from Midway USA if anyone has an un-dimpled version. Plus, Hogue and others make wood grips if that is what someone wants.

Some of the Gen 3s have MIM parts. So what? MIM is common to most gun manufacturers now.

There might be some confusion about the "cheapness" of S&W third Gen guns. Most were not cheap in any sense and on a par with their earlier guns quality wise and in many cases improvements. They did move from wood grips to Delrin and Xenoy wrap around grips.

S&W made a wide array of pistols during this period. They would introduce a new model, make 200 of them and drop them. They were looking to recover market share.

S&W also introduced a "Value Series" of guns. These were guns with fixed sights, simpler construction, less refinements, usually flat black in color, sometimes only one locking lug on a barrel, etc. and priced below their other guns. The Value Series of guns usually had a 3 digit prefix to the serial number; 410 in carbon steel and 410S in stainless, for example. The 4 indicating the 40 S&W cartridge.

Other guns in this series included the 411, the 457, 457D (D meant DAO) and 457S in 45acp.

In 9mm they offered the 908, 908S, 909, 910, 910S, 915.

I pulled this info from the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 4th Edition.

Okay, not 'cheap' but more cost effective manufacturing processes to enhance shareholder value.
Now MIM parts are more cost effective. No waste of material like the parts machined from bar stock.

tipoc said:

S&W also introduced a "Value Series" of guns. These were guns with fixed sights, simpler construction, less refinements, usually flat black in color, sometimes only one locking lug on a barrel, etc. and priced below their other guns. The Value Series of guns usually had a 3 digit prefix to the serial number; 410 in carbon steel and 410S in stainless, for example. The 4 indicating the 40 S&W cartridge.

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I never heard of one locking lug on a barrel. Anyone hear if it was ever a problem?

There is only one lug on the barrel of my 3913, which is not a Value Line gun. But on the VLs it was more common.
A number of police Depts. bought the VLs.

Good thread... nice pistols..... bump!

My few S&W semis...

Transitional 4506. No 'step' in frame, square trigger guard



4053...



439...



CS45....not a fan of the Hogues, but other options are few



And an early "Billboard" PC 945.
As already stated, modern "PC" guns are regular production guns with added features and a PC logo stamp..but i'm not disparaging them, or anyone who owns one. Performance Center has long ago stopped making hand built custom handguns.

mope540 said:

Good thread... nice pistols..... bump!

My few S&W semis...

Transitional 4506

View attachment 867663

4053...

View attachment 867664

439...

View attachment 867665

CS45....not a fan of the Hogues, but other options are few

View attachment 867666

And an early "Billboard" PC 945.
As already stated, modern "PC" guns are regular production guns with added features and a PC logo stamp. Performance Center has long ago stopped making hand built custom handguns.

View attachment 867669

View attachment 867670

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I wish they were like Sig and now CZ by still manufacturing steal/aluminum frame pistols along with their polymer ones. There's still a market for them. A smaller market than poly pistols, but Sig, CZ, CZ cloners, etc seem to be doing well.

Styx said:

I wish they were like Sig and now CZ by still manufacturing steal/aluminum frame pistols along with their polymer ones. There's still a market for them. A smaller market than poly pistols, but Sig, CZ, CZ cloners, etc seem to be doing well.

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Who makes a quality *steel* framed 40 anymore? I’m over the Tactical Tupperware craze. I do have a 4006, but what’s new?

Styx said:

I wish they were like Sig and now CZ by still manufacturing steal/aluminum frame pistols along with their polymer ones. There's still a market for them. A smaller market than poly pistols, but Sig, CZ, CZ cloners, etc seem to be doing well.

Click to expand...

S&W still makes a few versions of the1911

Anchorite said:

Who makes a quality *steel* framed 40 anymore? I’m over the Tactical Tupperware craze. I do have a 4006, but what’s new?

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They quit making them a year or two ago but I've always liked the CZ75B in .40

My favorite and most accurate centerfire, Model 52-2.
Rimfire Model 41.