Finn marked 91/30 and the sins of Bubba.

I took the day of yesterday and went gun hunting and found this 1939 Tula 91/30.
The stock was so ugly that I almost didn’t look at it, but I did and it cost me $185.


Here is a closer look at the sins that Bubba committed upon this poor stock.
Some people think they know more about something that they know very little about. This would apply to the person that refinished this stock.
Most Mosin stocks are bade of Birch. The Russians used Birch because they had a lot of it, it was cheap and is a good stable wood for gun stocks. The one problem with Birch is that it does not stain easily with oil base stains. But this is common with most hard woods. When you apply an oil base stain, it will pretty much wipe off without staining the wood.
An alcohol or water base stain is what is needed.
As we can see here is that Bubba applied an oil base stain and just let most of it dry on the surface. He then applied a clear coat over it.





The first thing I noticed about the metal on the rifle was that the bolt was blued. At first I thought it might have been the work of Bubba, but I was wrong. Part of the problem was that I had forgotten to bring my reading glasses with my.
The rifle was priced at $189.95, which wasn’t bad for today’s market, but I asked for a better price and got it for $185 out the door.
While filling out the 4473 forum I borrowed a pair of reading glasses. That was when I noticed the D stamp on the barrel .
For those that don’t know, the Finns used a different bullet for their 7.62x54r and would recut the chamber of captured rifles and stamp them with the D.



The only matching numbers on the rifle are the barrel and bolt, which is common on Finn refurbished rifles.

I took the rifle apart today and found that Bubba must’ve not known how to remove the trigger and disconnecter.
There was still cosmoline caked in them.


The tang data matches the barrel.


The barrel is not counter bored.


The importer is Century Arms.


The bolt head and extractor are Tula.


If you look close you cas see part of the old SN# on the bolt handle.

I put the rifle into another stock for now and plan to undo the sins of Bubba and save the original stock.

22250Rem said:

.......... I'm one of those that don't know. Just out of curiosity what bullet did they use that required the chamber to be recut ? I might own a Mosin but that don't make me an expert on them. Looks like that one is gonna go back to looking like a Mosin should. Good thing you got it before it got permanently disfigured.

Click to expand...

It was actually the shape of the bullet. They recut the throat of the chamber. They could fire there own ammo and also any captured Russian ammo.
This rifle was most likely captured during the Winter War with Russia. I have one from the Continuation War. It’s stamped with the 41 stamp to show that it was refurbished in 1941.
A good book on Finn rifles is Rifles Of The White Death by Doug Bowser. I meet Doug a few years ago and he autographed and gave me a copy of his book.

Here is the contact info I have on Doug. I'm not sure if it is still good. He may still have copies of his book.
DOUG BOWSER
PO Box 7358
McComb, MS 39649
USA
601-249-3315 after 7PM Central

morcey2 said:

I have 3 Finns, captured Izhevsk 91/30 in a spliced stock with several arsenal repairs to it. The back half of the stock is from an Austrian M91. Second one is a captured Tula 91/30 Hex receiver in a potbelly stock. Last one is a Finn M91 with a Tikka barrel. The Tula is my favorite to shoot because the pot belly stock fits my hand more gooder than the others. But they're all fun. THe Izhevsk has a bore that looks like a sewer pipe but it shoots really well. It's just a pain to clean. The Tikka has only had a couple of rounds down it but the bore looks brand new. Every time I take it out, something comes up. Or down. Like rain. Or snow.

Matt

Click to expand...

Morcey2
From your description of your rifles, I would say that they are not Finn captured rifles, but Finn built rifles.
As part of war aid, Germany gave the Finns a lot of Mosins that were leftovers from WWI. Most of these rifles were in fair to poor condition and were disassembled for parts to build rifles. Those rifles were built much better then the Russian built rifles. They used better stocks and barrels. Check the tang date on your rifles to see what year the receivers were made.
The Winter War with Russia started on November 30 1939 and it ended March 13 1940.
The Continuation War was from June 25 1941 – September 19 1944.
Rifles captured during these conflicts were put into service. Not all rifles pressed into service were marked with the Finn Army SA stamp, unless they were sent in for repairs.
Rifles that were sent in for repairs during the Continuation War were stamped with the Finn Army stamp and a 41 was also stamped on the barrel shank.
This is my 1929 Izhevsk M91 Dragoon. It is double 41 stamped. It would be safe to say that it saw it’s fair share of fighting. The finish on the stock is oil.

caribou said:

Gunny, I think you have a winner!

At the risk of repeating you, I’ll go on with my view of historical aspects of this rifle;

As a young Nation, Finland used tons of former German military gear, and adopted the Russian Mosin they were familiar with, later modifying them for accuracy and upgrade.

During the Winter war, Finland fought alone, as Stalin ate up the Baltic in 1939, and Hitler turned a blind eye.
Later, Hitler sought Finn help for the invasion of Russia, and provided material and military forces to bolster the Finns, who aimed at recapturing lands lost in the Winter war.

During the Russian campaign, the Contenuation War, The Germans gave the Finns a one time sales of captured Russian rifles, machine guns and equipment in 1944.

A blued and renumberd bolt would indicated German reworking, as the font and lack of letter prefix show the bolts not original. The Finns themselfs did not blue bolts.
There would be no 41, but the D and SA firmly make this Finn.

Often, apron surrender, Russian soldiers would often remove and throw the rifles bolt.
The Germans cleaned them up, and repaired them in feild via arms depots. I have on with Luftpark Gelendan, L.P.G.a.r. Wackensmacked on.

I believe the rifle you have a Russian, then German captured, sold and used by Finland. A rather rare rifle.

The question is weather it was recaptured by the Soviets and imported here, or imported from Finland.

Click to expand...

I’ll have to dig out my book to look up the blued bolts.
I have six or more Finn rifles, and should get them together for a group pic.

caribou said:

There is a possibility it’s a Finn replacement, and they would have plenty of bolts from prewar years purchases of formerly captured M91’s that the Germans or others sold them, but I doubt that.
I think because it’s a recent to the war rifle, from Finland , blued bolt, and in good shape would lean heavily toward a purchase from Germany in 1944. The sheer numbers of 91/30s in that sales would make the percentage a good one verses a Finn added bolt.
Please look in the wrist area of the stock, if it’s not deeply sanded, and see if there’s any stars or kru marks.

Click to expand...

I’ll have to strip the stock first, just too much stain under the clear coat

Gordon said:

My two, the 41 "sniper" is of course ersatz, but shoots well, o well I put a better modern Russian scope on it and a saddle for my cheek ! The 91/28 is a Home Guard real one with a Sako Barrel , it shoots real good ! Is your rifle forend brass shimmed ?
View attachment 842823
View attachment 842824

Click to expand...

No Brass Shims. Just a lot of clear coat.

entropy said:

Caribou is correct on the history; I had a Finn 91 for a while, never could find the correct stock for it. I bought it in an ATI plastic stock with hopes of restoring it like I did the 1916 Sestroryetsk M91 I found in an ATI stock for a steal-it was labelled an M44. It pays to be able to read Russian! (somewhat) I should think you know the correct finish needed to restore it to its former glory.

Click to expand...

The First Mosin I ever bought was a M91 New England Westinghouse, for $75. The front half of the stock and handguard were missing, but it had the Spanish flaming Bomb stamp on the stock and the dice mark on the shank of the barrel. It took me just over two years to find a correct stock for it. I still have the rifle and two or three more N.W.H. M91's

The plan for the Bubba stock is to strip the clear coat and stain and apply a Pine Tar finish. And yes, I do have some good pine tar from Finland. The only thing about doing a Pine Tar finish and making it look like it's been there for years will take some time, something like 2 or 3 weeks. But it will be worth the effort.
Oh! I didn't get a pic, but I can see a Tula star cartouche on the stock.