Palmetto State Armory AR's

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. . . oddly, you can save a money by buying the AR lower and upper separately when they have deals, rather than a whole rifle.
Federal excise tax applies to firearms, but not non,firearm parts.

Tax on a $40 receiver + $360 kit << tax on $400 firearm.
 
PSA is a very successful enabler... they enable people to build 2,3 or maybe even 4 different ARs that alway seem to function/shoot very well for the price of one “high end” gun.

I have a 16” mid length that works perfectly to date with all the different ammo I’ve fed it. No complaints here.

You don’t get the range “oooh-aahhh” panache’ that comes with unsheathing a Baer or Noveske and showing it off, kinda like the glances and nods the hood badges of Porsche 911 drivers get. But the “PSA Kia” just keep chugging along to their owners satisfaction.

Stay safe!
 
Ok, so this article on pistol braces has the statement that in order to be an AR pistol, the lower receiver has to be marked as a pistol on the DROS when you buy it. I doubt I had the dealer do any such thing, so my lower receiver is probably a rifle. The whole thing seems shrouded in mystery and confusion and subject to reinterpretation by the ATF. I think I will avoid the subject for now, at least for this lower.
DROS is strictly a California thing. If you don't live in California, it's not a concern.

If talking about the Form 4473, a pistol listed as a pistol, a longarm as a longarm and a receiver as a firearm. However, if a mistake is made on the form, it doesn't change what you bought. If the dealer mistakenly lists your Remington 870 as a "pistol" it doesn't turn it into a pistol. If the dealer lists your receiver as a longarm, it doesn't become a longarm. It's still a firearm.

PSA is a good source of AR parts, but you've got to understand their limitations. They use generic springs which sometimes don't last long, especially their extractor springs. Gas ports can sometimes be too large. REs can be either 6061 (usable) or 7075 (preferred). They use CAR buffers which are just too light and should be replaced with H or H2 buffers as soon as practical.
 
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Seems flickr is down so uploading a couple new pics. I added slings to both and magpul furniture to the one with the optic. Easiest way to add a flashlight mount IMHO.

As mentioned my pistols are equipped with Arm Braces. Love the look of this basic PSA pistol.
PSA Basic.JPG

Having Flash Light and Red Dot is more functional here at the ranch and this one has become one of my home defense guns.
PSA Optic.jpg
 
Love my PSA's. I look for sales on separate uppers and lowers. I have not been disappointed with the quality and accuracy of any of their rifles.
I pick up a BCG or two when on sale as well. My next interest is an 18" barrel and complete upper.

Note: I try and purchase their lowers with the polished triggers.
0517190834a.jpg
 
Skylerbone - just to be clear, if I build out my AR lower (bought back in the dark days possible President Clinton part deux) as a pistol, then later I can snap it to an AR rifle and it's still a pistol?

How exactly does that work? How do I make sure it never becomes a rifle? Or worse yet an untaxed SBR?

@MistWolf, @GunnyUSMC, @Varminterror are a few of the guys who did the ‘splainen for me when I had questions on these issues and hopefully if I screw it up or mire it with incomprehensible babble they’ll jump in and rescue it. Here goes:

Example 1. You buy a stripped lower, the “firearm” portion of an AR which requires a 4473. Your FFL marks the transfer down as “Other”. You complete your lower build. NOW...until the moment you pin an upper on it, it is still an “Other” and you are fine.

Example 2. You purchase a complete lower and it comes with a carbine receiver extension and rifle buttstock already attached. Your FFL marks the transfer down as “Other”. AGAIN...until you pin an upper on it, it is still an “Other” and you are fine.

Here’s where your “Other” becomes what it will forever be:

Example 1. You purchase a pistol upper and, using a bare receiver extension or a brace, you pin it to your lower and have built a Pistol.

Example 2. You purchase a rifle upper, and pin it to your lower and have built a Rifle. Or: you remove the rifle buttstock, purchase a pistol upper, pin it to the lower (without the buttstock) and have built a Pistol. Or: you purchase a pistol upper and wish to keep the rifle buttstock in place but must first have permission as pinning them creates an SBR, but a rifle none the less.

Now returning to the first scenario, of building a pistol; let’s say next week you purchase a rifle length upper and buttstock. You MAY unpin the Pistol upper and pin the rifle upper and add your stock. Now you have “Configured” your Pistol as a Rifle and are still legal. Now for the important part: you decide you want to shoot the pistol upper instead and so you MUST remove the rifle stock BEFORE pinning the pistol upper back on otherwise you will have an illegal SBR. So long as the combination of pistol upper with rifle stock never exists you are legal and may otherwise switch uppers as often as you see fit.

The above gentlemen also suggested an initial picture of the build in its original “Pistol” configuration should it ever be necessary to provide evidence of the starting firearm. I documented my build here at THR as well. My first completed lower was intended to be a rifle and I did not have the above information at the time. So, naturally to check function I pinned it to a rifle upper and it is now forever a rifle despite never having taken it to the range. At some point I’ll buy it a companion rifle upper but for now it’s tucked away in the safe.

A final note on the above: you could still be prosecuted for having an SBR IF: you have all materials to build one and no completed “Pistol” lower. In layman’s terms, if you only own 1 AR that was transferred as “Rifle” on the 4473 DO NOT buy a pistol length (under 16”) upper or barrel and leave these two parts in close proximity. That can be construed as intent to build an illegal SBR.

Hopefully I got that all correct and it made sense.
 
Those 9mm "pistol" kits look like a lot of fun but I'm going to withstand the urge to buy one knowing that the BATF can make them illegal again with a single letter. Too bad because the low price of 9mm ammo would make it a hoot as a plinker. I already have a tax stamp for an SBR lower that I paired with a 10.5" 300BLK upper from PSA. It's a crowd pleaser when I take newbies to the range - they seem to enjoy it more than just about any other rifle. I'm sure the 9mm would be the same way.

EDIT: I just discovered 9mm magazine conversions for AR15's, so I ordered a Sterns Defense glock conversion and a 8" PSA 9mm upper that I'll use with my SBR. It's the perfect solution for me. As far as PSA quality, I have two experiences with them and both were positive. I put together my son's first AR with all PSA parts and it's been flawless. I also have a PSA 300 blackout upper on my SBR and it's been flawless, although I can't get last round hold open with subsonic ammo (I bought it to use with a suppressor). So I'm confident I'll have good luck with a 9mm PSA upper. I have a White Mountain upper on my accurate AR, but PSA makes great stuff for plinking or low entry cost AR's.
 
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Example 1. You buy a stripped lower, the “firearm” portion of an AR which requires a 4473. Your FFL marks the transfer down as “Other”. You complete your lower build. NOW...until the moment you pin an upper on it, it is still an “Other” and you are fine.

Example 2. You purchase a complete lower and it comes with a carbine receiver extension and rifle buttstock already attached. Your FFL marks the transfer down as “Other”. AGAIN...until you pin an upper on it, it is still an “Other” and you are fine.
My understanding is once a rifle stock is attached it's a rifle. So if you order a complete lower with a rifle stock attached the 4473 should be marked rifle not other. Pinning an upper to the lower doesn't change what the lower is. If you put a 16" upper in a pistol lower you have a pistol with a 16" barrel.
 
My understanding is once a rifle stock is attached it's a rifle. So if you order a complete lower with a rifle stock attached the 4473 should be marked rifle not other. Pinning an upper to the lower doesn't change what the lower is. If you put a 16" upper in a pistol lower you have a pistol with a 16" barrel.

That is incorrect, even a complete lower is still an "other"/receiver on the 4473.

To determine clasification: ergo "longgun" "handgun" or "other"

Look at what is in front of you and ask these 2 questions.

1) what caliber is it
2) how long is the barrel


If it has no caliber, or barrel, it cannot be anything except an "other"
 
That is incorrect, even a complete lower is still an "other"/receiver on the 4473.

To determine clasification: ergo "longgun" "handgun" or "other"

Look at what is in front of you and ask these 2 questions.

1) what caliber is it
2) how long is the barrel


If it has no caliber, or barrel, it cannot be anything except an "other"
I stand corrected as to the marking of the 4473 as other. Still if the receiver is complete with a rifle stock attached I don't believe it can be used to make a pistol.
 
I stand corrected as to the marking of the 4473 as other. Still if the receiver is complete with a rifle stock attached I don't believe it can be used to make a pistol.
Yes, it can. You must remove the rifle stock (just the stock, not the RE) before attaching an upper to it.

NOTE: There is no maximum barrel length or overall length for a pistol. What makes a completed firearm a longarm, is the addition of a buttstock.

I don't think taking a photo to prove your lower was first assembled as a pistol is necessary. By the time you're having to prove to the BATF your receiver was originally assembled as a pistol, you really screwed up and you're in the process of negotiating away lesser charges to reduce your sentence if convicted of a much greater charge.
 
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I don't think taking a photo to prove your lower was first assembled as a pistol is necessary. By the time you're having to prove to the BATF your receiver was originally assembled as a pistol, you really screwed up and you're in the process of negotiating away lesser charges to reduce your sentence if convicted of a much greater charge
Maybe but at that point it's gonna be really hard to prove it was originally assembled as a pistol when you receipt says it was in rifle configuration when you received it.
 
My understanding is once a rifle stock is attached it's a rifle. So if you order a complete lower with a rifle stock attached the 4473 should be marked rifle not other. Pinning an upper to the lower doesn't change what the lower is. If you put a 16" upper in a pistol lower you have a pistol with a 16" barrel.

This is not correct.

The receiver (the AR lower in this case) must be stocked AND chambered before it is “categorized.” Lowers with stocks attached should transfer as “other,” if your FFL does not, they messed up. The upper attached absolutely determines the classification of the lower. Pin a 20” barrel on top of an A2 stock lower and you have a rifle. Pin a 10.5” barrel on top and you have an SBR. Pull the stock and put the same 10.5” on top, you have a pistol.

The silliness comes in when a law abiding citizen starts talking about going back and forth between pistol and rifle (or SBR, pistol, and Rifle). We’re on an honor code, and nothing more, to promise all AR pistols we build started as pistols first, then became rifles second, such they can go back to a pistol configuration. But if you started as a rifle, it can’t go back to a pistol. Such, I can sit at my bench with a carbine tube, a virgin lower, a carbine stock, a 10.5” upper and a 20” upper, and the order in which I touch the parts makes a difference. By law, if the first 30 seconds of my work yields a rifle, I can never put the pistol upper onto that lower and it will have to remain a rifle forever. But if I grab that pistol upper first, assemble a pistol, I could immediately remove it and assemble a rifle, and forever onward it can flip flop back and forth at will. The intention is understandable, but the implication in the real world is silly. I would never press for change, and appreciate the latitude to live by such honor code.

Equally silly, I have never understood why some lower manufacturers will mark “pistol” on their lowers. Marking it as such does not make it a pistol, and the same laws apply. If sold stripped, they must be transferred as an “other,” and if they are first assembled as a rifle, they can’t go back to a pistol. The marking doesn’t change anything under the law.
 
Yes, I have a problem with Palmetto State Armory.

When I have spent hours carefully comparing & contrasting each of their rifle kits in a given caliber that I am interested in to finally settle on what I want it goes "temporarily out of stock"! For values of "temporarily" that are terrifically annoying!

Now, do I settle for my second-best choice since they actually have it on hand, or wait in the hopes they will bring back the one I originally wanted?

They never say how long it will be out of stock. The mid-length 7.62x39 AR has been out of stock for more than two years. I've given up on it. Who knows when they'll bring back an AR45 kit?

If you can get your hands on what you want I have been very pleased with what I've got. Their prices are very reasonable to the point they have allowed me to have guns I thought I never would.

But, their "temporarily out of stock" is going to drive me mad.
 
The receiver (the AR lower in this case) must be stocked AND chambered before it is “categorized.” Lowers with stocks attached should transfer as “other,” if your FFL does not, they messed up. The upper attached absolutely determines the classification of the lower. Pin a 20” barrel on top of an A2 stock lower and you have a rifle. Pin a 10.5” barrel on top and you have an SBR. Pull the stock and put the same 10.5” on top, you have a pistol.
Yes I already corrected myself about marking other on the 4473.
However it most certainly is the stock that determines if it's a rifle or pistol.
SBR is short barreled RIFLE
 
Skylerbone - just to be clear, if I build out my AR lower (bought back in the dark days possible President Clinton part deux) as a pistol, then later I can snap it to an AR rifle and it's still a pistol?

If you convert an AR pistol to a rifle, it is then a rifle. No longer a pistol. But it could be converted BACK to a pistol.

Edit:And can the ATF (perhaps at the direction of a future president) suddenly decide all the AR pistols are SBRs and require people surrender or destroy them?

This would not be possible. Pistols are pistols, whether it is an AR or not. AR’s are not the only firearm type which share common design receivers between rifles and pistols. The ATF would have to totally disregard clearly defined classifications for Title 1 firearms, which would be disproven before it ever reached enforcement.

It is possible the ATF may change its ruling about whether shouldering a “brace” constitutes a redesign and reclassification of the firearm - which is the world we lived in during the recent past - or they might change their interpretation of design to suddenly believe braces constitute a stock meant to be shoulder fired, but they can NEVER consider a pistol to be a rifle. That’s not a ruling change, it would be a redefinition of what constitutes firearm types. Not the kind of thing they do, and damned sure not the kind of thing they can do without intervention.
 
Yes I already corrected myself about marking other on the 4473.
However it most certainly is the stock that determines if it's a rifle or pistol.
SBR is short barreled RIFLE

A stock, designed to be shoulder fired, is an aspect of a rifle. But a lower with a stock is not a rifle.

A lower without an upper, however, has not yet satisfied the definition of a rifle, as such, lowers without uppers, even with a stock are to be transferred as “others”. If the stock is removed before a sub-16” upper is installed, an SBR is not created, a pistol is.

I will readily admit, a LOT of FFL holders don’t understand the law, such they may mistakenly transfer out stocked lowers as rifles/long guns, but they should not.

So if your FFL knows his job, if you buy a stocked lower, it should be transferred as an “other,” then if the stock is removed from the tube first, a pistol upper can be installed to build a pistol, and an SBR is not made. (Assuming either the stock is sold, or a rifle length upper is also owned such “constructive” possession of parts which could only be assembled into an NFA defined configuration is not in play).
 
if the receiver is complete with a rifle stock attached I don't believe it can be used to make a pistol.

This is incorrect.

The lower must be transferred, by law, as “other. Subsequently: The stock must be removed first, such an SBR is not made, before the pistol upper is installed. The stock must be sold, or a rifle length barrel or upper must be owned to go with the stock if it is kept, such constructive possession does not apply.

A rifle stocked lower can absolutely be built as a pistol.
 
Those 9mm "pistol" kits look like a lot of fun but I'm going to withstand the urge to buy one knowing that the BATF can make them illegal again with a single letter...
Why worry about it? What happens if they do make AR pistols illegal? Nothing, as long as you obey the law. If AR pistols are made illegal, install legal length barrels on the uppers that need them and press on. In the meantime, go out and shoot.
 
Maybe but at that point it's gonna be really hard to prove it was originally assembled as a pistol when you receipt says it was in rifle configuration when you received it.
I don't say it's a bad idea or that you shouldn't. But think about what events need to take place to have ATF scrutinizing your lower to determine if was first assembled as a rifle. It's far more important to avoid violating the laws that bring the Feds down on you in the first place.
 
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